Shelley v Associates (Citi)Judgment awarded but Citi apply for S/A ***ONGOING***

[dx100uk]

why?

 

dx

[Shelley181146]

Because although this in formation was requested within our SAR letter no documents regarding the PPI were sent - although they were asked to comply fully with the SAR request, they replied they had!

 

I am interested to know what the limitations were in respect to sickness/ill health claims and if any exclusions may have applied. Would a 'retired' person have been eligible and if they subsequently returned to work should the applicant have advised them? If partner was still working would they still have been eligibl under the PPI?

 

Shelley

[Shelley181146]

Am I correct being advised that if Citi reimburse any unfair charges that it will be the difference between what was charged and £12? Did they win this rule in some courtcase i'm not aware of?

 

Also, although people on here are saying that no reason needs to be given to reclaim PPI for being mis-sold but if you end up taking them to court, surely there has to be a valid reason why you feel that you were mis-sold it?

 

I would be interested if anyone has a copy of the PPI policy for Associates card/Citi from 2001/2002 and what their exclusions were at that time? If anyone has a copy, I would be very interested.

 

If the applicant was retired at time of the application but then subsequently returned to employment part-time, were they responsible for telling Citi? Does that give them right to not pay out on a PPI claim, if one was made?

 

Appreciate any feedback on this please.

Shelley

[ims21]

Am I correct being advised that if Citi reimburse any unfair charges that it will be the difference between what was charged and £12? Did they win this rule in some courtcase i'm not aware of?

 

No....you will be claiming the whole amount, not just the difference between £12 and the actual. Forget what Citi (or any other bank may tell you about £12 being acceptable.

 

Also, although people on here are saying that no reason needs to be given to reclaim PPI for being mis-sold but if you end up taking them to court, surely there has to be a valid reason why you feel that you were mis-sold it?

 

I'm sure if you look at the list of criteria for mis-selling there will be more than one which applies to you

I would be interested if anyone has a copy of the PPI policy for Associates card/Citi from 2001/2002 and what their exclusions were at that time? If anyone has a copy, I would be very interested.

 

Sorry, can't help on this one

If the applicant was retired at time of the application but then subsequently returned to employment part-time, were they responsible for telling Citi? Does that give them right to not pay out on a PPI claim, if one was made?

 

If they were retired at the time it was sold then that's cut and dried....applicant didn't need it anyway and it wasn't a suitable product to sell.

Appreciate any feedback on this please.

Shelley

 

Hope the answers in red help.

 

ims

[Shelley181146]

Hi ims,

You have come to my rescue again, thank you.

 

It was while I have been doing some reading that it had been picked up that if I am taking Citi to court then it is upto me to prove what their costs would be and not for them to prove what they are! Heaven's knows how I would do that? If I am to build a defence up how would I prove they are over charging for a service?

 

dx said that I didn't need a reason to say I was mis-sold but when I completed the form on FOS website section (d) goes into quite a bit of detail as to how one would have paid their account without it etc., (hope that makes sense).Which is why I was looking for assistance if anyone had a policy document I could view. I thought it would help my defence?

 

I have been going through the CCA today with a fine toothcomb and what does stand out on the photo copies of statements is that when the original account was with Associates, they didn't state the interest being charged on the statements. That may have been the same for all c/c companies at that time, not sure. In fact, Citi didn't show the interest rates being charged on the statements until the account went into default. Is that usual?

 

We have never received a 'true copy' of the original application form only a computer print out with the data on it but it clearly states that the applicants occupation was 'RETIRED', but he did ask for PPI, which was subsequently charged for. Therefore, I do feel we have every right to reclaim this as mis-sold and if they want to push it, I have written evidence that when the applicant became ill, following returning to part-time work, they Citi ignored his request to claim on the policy. I don't have their response but I remember thinking back then that I assumed he wasn't eligible because of a pre-existing condition - but in hindsight - how the hell would they have known that when they didn't even ask?

 

We have claimed (in a seperate letter) for unfair charges also but to date have received no reply. Stupidly, I gave them eight weeks to investigate but that will give me time to build my defence up for when I send lba and see them in court.

 

Apologies for rambling but I am so fired up today over this. Been on it for hours.

 

Regards

Shelley

[ims21]

Hi shelley

 

And there will probably be a few more hours on it too if I'm honest.

 

To the main points though, I think you are in danger of over-complicating this to some degree (forgive me for saying so).

 

It is well documented that the over limit and late fees are unlawful. It doesn't matter whether they are £10, £12 or £50. If you look into this more closely (and I know you have put some hours in already) you'll find that this is all based around the banks creating an unfair relationship and the fees being charged are deemed as a penalty, not as a fair charge for work involved. Penalty and unfair relationship are the main points.

 

Now with regard to the ppi, my simplistic, but I think logical view, is that it is black and white. Either it was mis-sold or it wasn't. There can be no "migt have been". Its rather like Yoda in Star Wars.....There is no try, there is only do or do not. Now, in your case the statement that you were retired is enough to make ppi at the time of sale totally inappropriate. Couple this with other criteria for mis-selling such as "Not fully explained", "Not advised that ther products were available" etc. gives you a clear cut case of mis-selling.

 

So in a nutshell, dx is right that you don't have to get into an argument about their true cost of a late payment fee because it is irrelevant under the unfair relationship and penalty situation and with regard to the ppi it appears to me to be cut and dried. Especially as the banks capitulated in the recent case and the reason they have not appealed is because they know that it is game over for them.

 

ims

[Shelley181146]

Polite correction, OH was retired. I am his younger model and still working

I prefer straight talking, no frills so nothing to forgive.

I do have a tendency to over complicate some things - like to be thorough but I know I cause myself more work than is sometimes necessary.

Which is the recent case to which you refer?

 

I will work on my court docs and try to post when almost ready to submit. I sure could do with that holiday.

 

Thanks again.

Shelley

[ims21]

Polite correction, OH was retired. I am his younger model and still working

 

Apologies...principle is the same though

 

I prefer straight talking, no frills so nothing to forgive.

I do have a tendency to over complicate some things - like to be thorough but I know I cause myself more work than is sometimes necessary.

Which is the recent case to which you refer?

 

The ppi Judicial Review decision in April where the banks chose not to appeal against the decision on mis-selling of ppi?

 

I will work on my court docs and try to post when almost ready to submit. I sure could do with that holiday.

 

With each day that holiday is getting closer

 

Thanks again.

Shelley

 

ims

[Shelley181146]

Here's a strange one for the pot.

During July I will receive confirmation that I will have 'Lasting Power of Attorney' in respect to my OH. As this account is my OH's, how will I word the WS?

[dx100uk]

KISS

 

keep

it

simple

stupid

 

dx

[Shelley181146]

KISS

 

keep

it

simple

stupid

 

dx

Am I missing something here? Would love to but as I am not familiar with the legalities of the court processes, I have just come to complete the NI form and although it will be the OH's as the claimant, it will be me representing/defending the case if it gets to court. Presumably, I will complete docs in OH's name and send covering letter to the court explaining?

[ims21]

Am I missing something here? Would love to but as I am not familiar with the legalities of the court processes, I have just come to complete the NI form and although it will be the OH's as the claimant, it will be me representing/defending the case if it gets to court. Presumably, I will complete docs in OH's name and send covering letter to the court explaining?

 

OK shelley....hands up....you finally got me!

 

I'll do some research but others may well reply before I get back on this.

 

ims

[Shelley181146]

Comes to something when my local courts don't know!

[Shelley181146]

I am not familiar with the legalities of the court processes, I have just come to complete the NI form and although it will be the OH's as the claimant, it will be me representing/defending the case if it gets to court. Presumably, I will complete docs in OH's name and send covering letter to the court explaining?

 

'During July I will receive confirmation that I will have 'Lasting Power of Attorney' in respect to my OH. As this account is my OH's, how will I word the WS'?

 

Can someone please advise how I will go about this?

 

Shelley

[ims21]

Hi shelley

 

Maybe drop a PM to andyorch and ask him to pop in...he's pretty good on the legals. If not he may be able to put you in the right direction.

 

ims

[Shelley181146]

Thank you ims.

 

Took awhile to locate how I did that but I have managed it, thank you.

[ims21]

Thank you ims.

 

Took awhile to locate how I did that but I have managed it, thank you.

 

Sorry....assumed you knew

 

ims

[AndyOrch]

Further to your PM Shelley

 

Ok to get back to you in the morning ? (long day)

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Shelley181146]

Further to your PM Shelley

 

Ok to get back to you in the morning ? (long day)

 

Regards

 

 

 

Andy

 

Absolutely, no probs.

Appreciate your input.

 

Regards

Shelley

[ims21]

Hi shelley

 

I was sure you asked what an AQ is for but can't see it now....maybe you edited your post.

 

In case you are still curious.....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allocation_questionnaire

 

Regards

 

ims

[Shelley181146]

Hi shelley

 

I was sure you asked what an AQ is for but can't see it now....maybe you edited your post.

In case you are still curious.....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allocation_questionnaire

 

Regards

 

ims

 

Guilty as charged your honour, lol. Apologies ims. I have got so many windows open and didn't realise I had the answer staring right at me. I didn't want to take up your time, so edited the post. I am trying to get to grips with the order of the courts paperwork in prep for taking Citi to the cleaners, whoops! Court.

 

Regards

Shelley

[AndyOrch]

Hi Shelley

 

OK complete the N1 in your O/H name along with all the particulars.When push comes to shove you will be representing him

as a McKenzie Friend read here :-

 

McKenzie friends, McKensie friends, MacKenzie friends

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Shelley181146]

I am trying to write up an N1 form for the courts and have so far come up with the following;

 

On or between XXXX and XXXX an application was made to the defendant for an account to be opened.

My employment status at that time was 'retired'.

 

Payment Protection Insurance was applied for and charges are shown on monthly statements.

 

I took up part time employment in XXXX but became seriously ill and duly advised Citi of my ill health and a request was made to claim against the PPI policy, which was ignored.

 

Therefore, as PPI should not have been granted to a 'retired' applicant and later my claim was ignored when in employment and ill, I claim full reimbursement of all premiums paid plus compound interest.

 

Is this worded sufficiently enough for the courts or should anything else be added?

 

Any assistance on completing the N1 form would be appreciated.

 

Shelley

[ims21]

Hi shelley

 

For the N1 form itself you can keep the detail brief. For Example...Reclaim of mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance Put the full monty in your POC which will be attached to the N1 and which will go into detail.

 

ims

[Shelley181146]

Hi shelley

 

For the N1 form itself you can keep the detail brief. For Example...Reclaim of mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance Put the full monty in your POC which will be attached to the N1 and which will go into detail.

 

ims

 

Oh okay. Cheers ims.

 

So when I do go into more detial on the POC I can bring in my timeline of events so to speak to explain?

 

On the legal pages on here they have examples for POC's but they tend to be for 'unfair charges'. They have been drafted up by some judge and are worded brilliantly. I had hoped to be able to do something similar.

 

Shelley