OHs Argos store card

[The Debt Star]

good one hippy.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Time to give up meds and get the Law degree Hippy:madgrin:

[Crazy Diamond]

O-k, so let me get this right, pre 07, they must be able to provide the original so the CPUTs is used to force them into admitting whether they have the necessary original? Thus staving off any possible court action from our trigger-happy fiends before they even think about trying it on?

 

Interesting... Do we know that this actually works or is it something experimental? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to stop the fockers in their tracks, but... it nearly sounds too good to be true, lol.

 

The main reason for my unease is that my understanding of the CPUTs is that they are solely for enforcement by the OFT, then again what we're talking about when all is said and done is basically calling their bluff, and once they know we know they're bluffing they back off?

 

As I said, very interesting if it works, so if anyone has links to the basis of this and threads to show that it works, I'd be very grateful. It feels very exciting though, like the bank charges thing when it first started, feeling like re-inventing the wheel, lol.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Quite simple pre 2007 the original signed agreement is

required to prove the debt in court.

There will always be buts and if's etc., but

that's how it stands.

[Crazy Diamond]

Yes, I get that, that's not news, what I am interested in is how the CPUT fit in that. I don't know about you, but I have always preferred to stop them dead before they even try to go to court rather than having a biased judge deciding that the law doesn't apply in his court, sadly something which has happened to far too many CAGgers in the past. I find the idea of something stopping them as surely as a statute-barred letter except on a live one utterly delicious, remembering that a lot of people will fold rather than taking the chance of going to court, not the hard nuts like you or me who aren't fazed either way.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I don't understand the BIASED JUDGE comment, the judge

can only decide on what is fair and reasonable on the evidence

put before him/her if the defendant OR claimant FAIL to make their

case then this is not bias against them, the basis of of civil law

in England & Wales is based on the fairness to each party and

the ever present BALANCE OF PROBABILITIES after many years

around various ''types'' of courts from Military,Magistrates, County, and High,

I can say honestly I have NEVER witnessed bias from a Judge, from a jury yes

many times and from those in the legal profession just a few.

End this weeks rant:madgrin:

[Crazy Diamond]

Well you can't have been reading older threads then, both in bank charges cases and in debt cases, CAG is littered with poor beggars who went in prepped up to the max and ended with a judge saying: "well, did you borrow the money, yes or no? Then pay up" regardless of the other side's failure to provide correct CCAs (pre-Manc test case), riding roughshod over Wilson and s127 etc... For myself, I have been lucky to only have once case where the judge was biased against us, but I still won on a narrow issue of the CPR and timescales to accept new evidence in absentia of the other party, not going to bore you with the details, but it was purely that technicality which meant the judge could not rule against me, but he was itching to do so and even said so as we left, once the record was switched off.

 

Anyway, apologies to Hippy for hijacking his thread, and thanks to him for the explanation.

 

I have found P1's thread on the CPUT as a tool and have bookmarked for later leisurely reading, that should keep me out of mischief for a bit and hopefully into even more mischief afterwards!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Sounds like a bl**dy good judge to me, and I

have read many old threads and cases elsewhere

for a very long time.!!

[Crazy Diamond]

Ok... we obviously have different notions of what a good judge is then... I just ask them to leave their own prejudices at the door and judge on the info in front of them, but I must be fussy, apparently!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

After 40 years I have seen no more than 2 or 3 cases

of judges being showing any favour detrimental to

a party to a case, but many who have shown compassion

and understanding, from possession orders to debt repayments.

IMHO if anyone does not like the civil justice system work to change

it, but we have the best in the worl.

[Happyhippy1959]

Yo set something going here...... Yep think a change of career is needed here,,, maybe a bit old now to start training for law..... To put it bluntly,,, a Judge would have to be a fool to go against what is common law or statued law... on the princible that one of the debtors may end up taking it to appeal... Now I think like the Brig is trying to say,,,, It does not matter a jot that the evidence of borrowing the money is overwhelming with statements and your gold rolex on in court. The law says that the original CCA is needed for the debtor to satisfy themselves that the company has kept to there side of the agreement. Most DCA's OC's no this,,,!!! and when push comes to shove will quietly slide away sell the debt to a mug DCA and write off against tax... The law is the law is the law..... Ask any circuit judge or county court judge and the thing they most hate is having there decisions over turned on appeal and with the reason being they failed to read case law... ( simples ) No house of Lords for them in this life time...

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Hippy,I know many people knock the judges,

but as one who is involved if the working of the

civil law more often than I like, it does work,

it is fair, judges are clued up, and reasoning.

Without the two founding principles of ''fair

as the man in the street'' would see a problem

and the balance of probabilities we would be back

to debtors prisons.

Does any one want that.!!????

[The Debt Star]

Ah, Barclaysea Debtors Prison

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Indeed if Blur and Mc Broon had

stayed around I think it was a possibility,

as they wanted total control of everyones

lives except their cronies.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Indeed if Blur and Mc Broon had

stayed around I think it was a possibility,

as they wanted total control of everyones

lives except their cronies.

[Crazy Diamond]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, both as a LIP and a Mackenzie friend, plus the umpteen testimonies on CAG, not forgetting some of the most erratic decisions higher up (a reconstituted copy as good as a true one? Pull the other one!) (banks charges are not penalty? Yeah sure!), my not-inconsiderable experience is somewhat less rosy as yours. ;-)

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

40 years experience, the rest of your

post is incomprehensible ???

[Happyhippy1959]

All in all I would say that the legal system is as fair as any human being can make it in this country. I have no worries about corruption I think most judges pride there selves on carrying out there tasks without bias and Favoritism . Like referees in a football match you will always get the chant of unfairness !!!!!!! I think the proof is in the pudding, if those barstools of DCA's and OCs' had the judges in there pocket I would have by now been up in front of a civil court... ( simples ) they know as I have told them on many occasions if you don't like what I am offering see you in court... THREE YEARS AND £40K OF DEBT STILL THE HIPPY IS COURT FREE... ( think that say's enough )

[Crazy Diamond]

Not at all, what it means is that because they know you will be hard work, they don't even chance taking you to court. If you were one of the victims, then they would issue N1 like confettis in the hope to get themselves CCJs galore.

 

I didn't say that all judges are biased, but thinking they all are unbiased is naive to say the least.

 

As for my posts being incomprehensible, anyone who has followed the bank charges and debt court cases scenes for the last few years should be able to know exactly what I'm referring to. All the info is on CAG for starters. If you find it incomprehensible, maybe you are not as informed as you claim to be.;-)

 

Well, I'm going to be offline for the next 10 days, so have fun all of you and don't let the b*****s grind you down.

[Happyhippy1959]

Just a little foot note to my battle in this case,, See my thread in the main forum,,, ( Freds in the Mire ) they send Hippy some one else's SAR,,, a poor lady from Wales have her bank details her address date of birth etc... complaint in to Argos and trying to contact said lady oh dear you could not make it up if you tried. HAVE TOLD ARGOOSE MOST STRONGLY, DON'T CARE IF THEY FIND MY ORIGINAL CCA, I AM HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH FREDRICKSONS AT ALL.... RATHER GO TO COURT THAN PAY THOSE MUPPETS .....:mad2::mad2::mad2:

[The Debt Star]

ICO complaint mate!

 

Oh and I'd be tempted to let the victim in Wales know what they've done as well

[Happyhippy1959]

e-mail received from Argoose,,, they do not understand CPTUR. I am requesting that they send a copy of the original CCA they hold. Nothing as yet, accept someone else's.. they have offered to remove the late fee payments at £84.00...

 

Firstly, with reference to the Credit Agreement we sent you, I do not understand what you mean by “CPTUR rules”. We have an obligation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act, to provide you with a true copy of your Credit Agreement if you ask for this. I can confirm that the Credit Agreement you were sent on 7 September 2011 is a true copy of the agreement you signed when you opened your Argos Card account on 24 May 2003. I have attached the same Terms and Conditions to this email and apologise if they differ from the Terms and Conditions you received in the post.

 

We have fulfilled our obligations under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act and I must stress that we are not obliged to provide you with the original, signed copy of your Credit Agreement. Please can you confirm why you are not satisfied with the details we have provided you with, as I need to be clear on whether or not you are alleging that you did not sign in agreement to the Terms and Conditions of your Argos Card Account

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Well Hippy at least you get something back:madgrin:

[PriorityOne]

If they don't know what CPUTR means, then they need to look it up.... lol. They're playing with you, IMO.

[Happyhippy1959]

My thoughts exactly P1,,, The poor lady who's SAR I had received had her completed and signed CCA... I think they have not got one to send.. Why all the bother I did point out to them that if they proceed to court they will have to disclose whether they have one or not.

 

Again they are having kittens in respect to the Breach of DATA PROTECTION, they have taken my case back, have offered to wipe out all the late penalties etc etc I have again reiterated I want the original or to inform me if they have it... simples.