Threat of Reposession from First Plus Solicitors **SUSPENDED**

[Worried6]

Hi ell-enn.

 

I have no information about dates as yet. Nothing has changed since I received the Originating Summons. (#41-#44)

I lodged the Memorandum of Appearance at court and then hand-delivered it to the Solicitors on 21st September along with a reviewed I&E Form and a letter offering a little bit more each month towards the arrears. They responded last week (received letter on Wednesday 6th Oct) declining the offer and giving the following reason -

"Our client has declined your revised repayment proposal on the basis that payments towards unsecured non-priority debts have not been sufficiently reduced. Our client would request that arrears on your account are cleared more promptly than as proposed and would request that you seek to negotiate reduced payments of your unsecured debts".

They have focused on an amount of £354 per month on loan payments which is made up of 2 loans and 1 store card payment. One of the loans is a guarantor loan so cannot be messed with. The other one £185 per mth with Tesco Finance. Storecard is a v small amount . All of these are up to date.

Is it normal to be asked to re-negotiate terms with other companies?

I need to respond and just haven't managed to think through the best way yet.

 

Thanks for getting back.

W6

[Worried6]

Hi ell-enn.

 

I have no information about dates as yet. Nothing has changed since I received the Originating Summons. (#41-#44)

I lodged the Memorandum of Appearance at court and then hand-delivered it to the Solicitors on 21st September along with a reviewed I&E Form and a letter offering a little bit more each month towards the arrears. They responded last week (received letter on Wednesday 6th Oct) declining the offer and giving the following reason -

"Our client has declined your revised repayment proposal on the basis that payments towards unsecured non-priority debts have not been sufficiently reduced. Our client would request that arrears on your account are cleared more promptly than as proposed and would request that you seek to negotiate reduced payments of your unsecured debts".

They have focused on an amount of £354 per month on loan payments which is made up of 2 loans and 1 store card payment. One of the loans is a guarantor loan so cannot be messed with. The other one £185 per mth with Tesco Finance. Storecard is a v small amount . All of these are up to date.

Is it normal to be asked to re-negotiate terms with other companies?

I need to respond and just haven't managed to think through the best way yet.

 

Thanks for getting back.

W6

[impecunious]

As far as i believe, loans and credit card debt are treated as "non-priority" debts, i.e credit debt. All priority debts, e.g. rent, mortgage, Council Tax, gas/electric and normal household expenses should be serviced first, then priority arrears.

 

I suggest you look at The National Debtline I&E budget planner - its very reasonable and easy to follow. This will allow you to calculate your priority debts and priority arrears.

 

I understand your thinking behind the "guarantor loan" you have but it wouldn't be considered a priority debt.

 

A phone call to the National Debtline might be useful. I've always found them to be very helpful.

 

 

Impecunious!

[impecunious]

As far as i believe, loans and credit card debt are treated as "non-priority" debts, i.e credit debt. All priority debts, e.g. rent, mortgage, Council Tax, gas/electric and normal household expenses should be serviced first, then priority arrears.

 

I suggest you look at The National Debtline I&E budget planner - its very reasonable and easy to follow. This will allow you to calculate your priority debts and priority arrears.

 

I understand your thinking behind the "guarantor loan" you have but it wouldn't be considered a priority debt.

 

A phone call to the National Debtline might be useful. I've always found them to be very helpful.

 

 

Impecunious!

[Worried6]

Thanks for the reply.

I' d be really frantic if it were considered proper to fall into debt with another loan company particularly when a guarantor is involved. I'd have to believe that a Judge would feel this inappropriate.

Meanwhile I am preparing a reply to these Solicitors that keeps the lines open but that doesn't over commit me either. Having done some reading on the Royal Courts Website I picked up on the committment to Pre-Action Protocol. The Solicitor clearly has the advantage here but picking up on a couple of points listed -

Should I tell them I am going to contact the Loan Companies involved just to show willing if this is examined in court?

Also maybe ask that FP consider capitalising some of the debt to reduce time involved.

Basically include anything that shows I've tried as best I can.

 

I have a specimen letter done but would love someone to read it and see if it is balanced.

 

W6

[Worried6]

Thanks for the reply.

I' d be really frantic if it were considered proper to fall into debt with another loan company particularly when a guarantor is involved. I'd have to believe that a Judge would feel this inappropriate.

Meanwhile I am preparing a reply to these Solicitors that keeps the lines open but that doesn't over commit me either. Having done some reading on the Royal Courts Website I picked up on the committment to Pre-Action Protocol. The Solicitor clearly has the advantage here but picking up on a couple of points listed -

Should I tell them I am going to contact the Loan Companies involved just to show willing if this is examined in court?

Also maybe ask that FP consider capitalising some of the debt to reduce time involved.

Basically include anything that shows I've tried as best I can.

 

I have a specimen letter done but would love someone to read it and see if it is balanced.

 

W6

[Worried6]

I really didn't know how to respond to the solcitor's suggestion that I go into arrears with other non-priority creditors. It just didn't seem right that I was asked to do that.

I knew I had to make some response so in the interest of keeping communications going and having evidence of this if I go to court I replied to FP Solicitors yesterday basically saying that we cannot afford to pay more at this time against the arrears.

I listed my proposals, repeating what had gone before adding in that I'd write to the other loan companies to explain my situation and see if there was any room for re-negotiation with them.

I didn't go into any debate aout the guarantor loan as I have no intention of involving another person in this mess.

I also asked that FP consider capitalising some or all of the amount to help reduce the time needed to repay.

I also stated my committment to dealing with this matter. I mentioned my husbands illness for the first time and how I have improved our financial position over the last year and a half to this point when I could make a repayment proposal. I also said I would review the payments myself so that further improvements in my financial state would be reflected in my re-payment to FP.

I don't think I can do anymore now except wait and see. What really troubles me is that I don't know what is going on behind scenes at court. I returned the Memorandum of Appearance (haven't heard anyone else mention this form) but haven't been able to find out what the next step is. It would help to get my head around what time I have before this hits court.

Am I right in thinking that while you are still in negotiation with a lender over repayments they cannot start court proceedings?

 

Thanks

W6

[Worried6]

I really didn't know how to respond to the solcitor's suggestion that I go into arrears with other non-priority creditors. It just didn't seem right that I was asked to do that.

I knew I had to make some response so in the interest of keeping communications going and having evidence of this if I go to court I replied to FP Solicitors yesterday basically saying that we cannot afford to pay more at this time against the arrears.

I listed my proposals, repeating what had gone before adding in that I'd write to the other loan companies to explain my situation and see if there was any room for re-negotiation with them.

I didn't go into any debate aout the guarantor loan as I have no intention of involving another person in this mess.

I also asked that FP consider capitalising some or all of the amount to help reduce the time needed to repay.

I also stated my committment to dealing with this matter. I mentioned my husbands illness for the first time and how I have improved our financial position over the last year and a half to this point when I could make a repayment proposal. I also said I would review the payments myself so that further improvements in my financial state would be reflected in my re-payment to FP.

I don't think I can do anymore now except wait and see. What really troubles me is that I don't know what is going on behind scenes at court. I returned the Memorandum of Appearance (haven't heard anyone else mention this form) but haven't been able to find out what the next step is. It would help to get my head around what time I have before this hits court.

Am I right in thinking that while you are still in negotiation with a lender over repayments they cannot start court proceedings?

 

Thanks

W6

[Surfer01]

Hopefully they put it in writing about going into arrears with other loans as thsi may be illegal and if so will give you a strong fighting chnace of winning. I assume that your normal mortgage is up o date at present and it is only the FP one in arrears. Another strong srgument is of course the way the interest rate increased in line with the BOE but never decreased in line with BOE. FP are on dodgy ground and you are probably better off fighting it. I doubt if they will go to court on the matter if challenged but it si your decision. I would take the chance after weighing up all the facts as they may be bluffing and hoping that you will cave in at the repossesion order stage.

[Surfer01]

Hopefully they put it in writing about going into arrears with other loans as thsi may be illegal and if so will give you a strong fighting chnace of winning. I assume that your normal mortgage is up o date at present and it is only the FP one in arrears. Another strong srgument is of course the way the interest rate increased in line with the BOE but never decreased in line with BOE. FP are on dodgy ground and you are probably better off fighting it. I doubt if they will go to court on the matter if challenged but it si your decision. I would take the chance after weighing up all the facts as they may be bluffing and hoping that you will cave in at the repossesion order stage.

[Ell-enn]

If they won't accept your offer, I certainly agree that it would be best to let it go to court and see what a judge has to say about them asking you to default on other commitments to pay them - he/she would not be pleased !

[Ell-enn]

If they won't accept your offer, I certainly agree that it would be best to let it go to court and see what a judge has to say about them asking you to default on other commitments to pay them - he/she would not be pleased !

[Worried6]

Sorry my wireless connection went funny yesterday afternoon and I missed your replies.

Thanks again for the feedback. I don't think I can do any more now I hope a judge would accept that I have tried to sort this out.

To answer your questions 'Surfer' -yes my main mortgage is up to date and always has been and the solicitor did put the suggestion of reducing payments to non-priority debt in writing. I also have all documents from FP re. interest rate changes inckuding one that informs the rate is going down but I wouldn't qualify because of arrears on the account.

I am going to let this takes its course now. Would either of be able to tell me if the solicitor might already have applied to court for a date while giving me the impression of looking for an agreement by bouncing letters back & forth?

Thanks again for getting back it helps a lot in every way.

W6

[Worried6]

Sorry my wireless connection went funny yesterday afternoon and I missed your replies.

Thanks again for the feedback. I don't think I can do any more now I hope a judge would accept that I have tried to sort this out.

To answer your questions 'Surfer' -yes my main mortgage is up to date and always has been and the solicitor did put the suggestion of reducing payments to non-priority debt in writing. I also have all documents from FP re. interest rate changes inckuding one that informs the rate is going down but I wouldn't qualify because of arrears on the account.

I am going to let this takes its course now. Would either of be able to tell me if the solicitor might already have applied to court for a date while giving me the impression of looking for an agreement by bouncing letters back & forth?

Thanks again for getting back it helps a lot in every way.

W6

[Surfer01]

Have a read through http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2083/contents/made as per my understanding section 5 and 6. Section 5 "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer." This may apply becasue although FP increased their interest rate in line with BOE as per their letters, they never decreased it in realtion to the decrease by BOE.

Section 6 "Without prejudice to regulation 12, the unfairness of a contractual term shall be assessed, taking into account the nature of the goods or services for which the contract was concluded and by referring, at the time of conclusion of the contract, to all the circumstances attending the conclusion of the contract and to all the other terms of the contract or of another contract on which it is dependent."

Maybe some other members with more knowledge than myself can add a further contribution, however as FP has stacked the odds in their favour I am sure that you could use the above as a reason for not having your home repossessed as their interest rates pushed up the monthly payment. In addition, the loan was given recklessly and not taking into account circumstances. As a direct result of FP not reducing their interest rate in line with BOE as per their increases, they have acted unfairly.

[Surfer01]

Have a read through http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2083/contents/made as per my understanding section 5 and 6. Section 5 "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer." This may apply becasue although FP increased their interest rate in line with BOE as per their letters, they never decreased it in realtion to the decrease by BOE.

Section 6 "Without prejudice to regulation 12, the unfairness of a contractual term shall be assessed, taking into account the nature of the goods or services for which the contract was concluded and by referring, at the time of conclusion of the contract, to all the circumstances attending the conclusion of the contract and to all the other terms of the contract or of another contract on which it is dependent."

Maybe some other members with more knowledge than myself can add a further contribution, however as FP has stacked the odds in their favour I am sure that you could use the above as a reason for not having your home repossessed as their interest rates pushed up the monthly payment. In addition, the loan was given recklessly and not taking into account circumstances. As a direct result of FP not reducing their interest rate in line with BOE as per their increases, they have acted unfairly.

[Worried6]

I'll have to take time to read this carefully and to understand the implications. I get a bit overwhelmed when reading articles like this.

Thanks again for the info and support.

[Worried6]

I'll have to take time to read this carefully and to understand the implications. I get a bit overwhelmed when reading articles like this.

Thanks again for the info and support.

[Worried6]

Hi Again

I have had another response from FP Solicitors.

They advise that they will accept payment of the contracted monthly instalment + £125 (my offer)towards arrears for a period of 2 months only. Then they require the payment towards arrears to increase to the sum they asked for previously i.e. £300.

They have given me 2 months to re-negotiate with unsecured creditors. They want the arrangement to start in October!! I always had a 1st of month payment date so I assume they mean payment due 1st November but unclear.

The thing is there is no guarantee that I can gather £175 from the other creditors anyway. They state that if I accept these terms they will secure any arrangement with a Suspended Order for Possession.

I asked that FP consider re-capitalise some or all of the debt - they refused this.

I cannot afford £300 unless I stop paying Tesco Finance completely I currently pay £185 per month and the account is up to date. My other loan is a guarantor loan (also up to date) and I cannot place a friend who showed me support in such a position.

I'd appreciate advice please - this is wearing me out.

 

Thanks

W6

[Worried6]

Hi Again

I have had another response from FP Solicitors.

They advise that they will accept payment of the contracted monthly instalment + £125 (my offer)towards arrears for a period of 2 months only. Then they require the payment towards arrears to increase to the sum they asked for previously i.e. £300.

They have given me 2 months to re-negotiate with unsecured creditors. They want the arrangement to start in October!! I always had a 1st of month payment date so I assume they mean payment due 1st November but unclear.

The thing is there is no guarantee that I can gather £175 from the other creditors anyway. They state that if I accept these terms they will secure any arrangement with a Suspended Order for Possession.

I asked that FP consider re-capitalise some or all of the debt - they refused this.

I cannot afford £300 unless I stop paying Tesco Finance completely I currently pay £185 per month and the account is up to date. My other loan is a guarantor loan (also up to date) and I cannot place a friend who showed me support in such a position.

I'd appreciate advice please - this is wearing me out.

 

Thanks

W6

[Ell-enn]

They're not going to cancel the court hearing no matter what as they have stated they will be asking for a suspended opssession if you agree to their terms. Of course it's not their decision as to whether a suspended possession is granted or not, and I'm certain no judge would advocate getting into debt with other creditors to pay more to FP. You have already offered to pay £125 per month extra and I'm sure the judge will agree with that.

 

I think you should write back telling them you are disappointed that they have once again refused an offer of payment and that your are astonished that they insist on your getting into debt with your other creditors. You can then attach a copy of this letter to your defence for the court hearing - the judge won't be pleased with their behaviour ! If you need help with the letter, please let me know.

 

Did you pay the £1,000 lump sum that you offered? - it will help your case if you have

 

Have you got a court date yet?

[Ell-enn]

They're not going to cancel the court hearing no matter what as they have stated they will be asking for a suspended opssession if you agree to their terms. Of course it's not their decision as to whether a suspended possession is granted or not, and I'm certain no judge would advocate getting into debt with other creditors to pay more to FP. You have already offered to pay £125 per month extra and I'm sure the judge will agree with that.

 

I think you should write back telling them you are disappointed that they have once again refused an offer of payment and that your are astonished that they insist on your getting into debt with your other creditors. You can then attach a copy of this letter to your defence for the court hearing - the judge won't be pleased with their behaviour ! If you need help with the letter, please let me know.

 

Did you pay the £1,000 lump sum that you offered? - it will help your case if you have

 

Have you got a court date yet?

[Worried6]

Hi Ell-enn

 

Yes I suppose I'll have to assume that they are always going to court no matter what I say or offer. Is this usual that a company would secure a payment arrangement with a suspended order?

 

I would appreciate assistance with a letter as I know it is important to keep a record for court.

 

There is no court date yet they have just made this latest suggestion and then wait on my response.

 

I haven't yet sent the £1000 as yet though I mentioned it as part of my latest offer to repay. FP and the Solicitors have never acknowledged this part of my offer they only refer to the monthly amount they want. I have borrowed this money from a friend but have held off sending it as it is a big favour and I didn't want them to have that money and then they reject my offer, go to court and the house gets repossessed anyway.

I thought they would factor it into any debate over payment arangements but it is wierd that in all the letters it has never been mentioned at all - as though it just made no difference.

I am having an estate agent view the house on Monday with a view to sale. I haven't mentioned this as yet to anyone involved.

 

Thanks again for coming back to me.

 

W6

[Worried6]

Hi Ell-enn

 

Yes I suppose I'll have to assume that they are always going to court no matter what I say or offer. Is this usual that a company would secure a payment arrangement with a suspended order?

 

I would appreciate assistance with a letter as I know it is important to keep a record for court.

 

There is no court date yet they have just made this latest suggestion and then wait on my response.

 

I haven't yet sent the £1000 as yet though I mentioned it as part of my latest offer to repay. FP and the Solicitors have never acknowledged this part of my offer they only refer to the monthly amount they want. I have borrowed this money from a friend but have held off sending it as it is a big favour and I didn't want them to have that money and then they reject my offer, go to court and the house gets repossessed anyway.

I thought they would factor it into any debate over payment arangements but it is wierd that in all the letters it has never been mentioned at all - as though it just made no difference.

I am having an estate agent view the house on Monday with a view to sale. I haven't mentioned this as yet to anyone involved.

 

Thanks again for coming back to me.

 

W6

[Worried6]

Hi

 

Could I ask for some help wording a reply to FP Solicitors?

Really appreciate it.

W6