Help to appeal CCJ installment amount

[cerberusalert]

Two threads merged

[Docman]

Thanks avocados, I'll have a look more closely in the morning.

[Docman]

OK avocados, had a night's sleep now, so more awake!

First, don't PANIC. You have time to defend this case properly BUT you must also find the virtue of patience. DCAs bombard you with threats before proceedings but once they have issued the claim, they seem to take their own time to send anything out unless it is to their advantage. The courts are also overworked and understaffed, so don't assume you will get any immediate responses.

Second, you need to acknowledge receipt of the claim form. As this is an online claim, you can acknowledge online. The instructions are in the pack you received. Once you acknowledge, there is a confirmation on the website. Print this off and keep safe.

Third, write to HCs for copies of the documents. This is known as a CPR 31.14 request. Get this off as soon as you can by recorded delivery (on Monday if possible). There are a number of threads with templates.

Give HCs 14 days to delivery. I doubt that they will so send a short reminder on day 15 and give them another 7 days. Again send by recorded delivery. Each time you post a letter, get a receipt from the Post Office and keep the receipt safe.

Fourth, you will have to file a defence. You have 28 days to do so after you have received the claim form, so you have plenty of time. Just enough to allow HCs to respond with the documents if they do have them. In the likely event HCs do not supply the documents (they probably won't respond at all), you can file a defence online. You have up to 8000 characters, so no problem if you file a short defence or what is often called on CAG an 'Embarrassed' defence, although what you have to be embarrassed about I do not know. If the other side have not responded properly within the rules, you can lodge a very good and short defence. But we will leave all that until the end of the month.

Finally, one tip on housekeeping. Get yourself a large (A4) folder or ring binder and start filing every piece of paper about the case, starting with the N1 claim form and then the acknowledgement of service, your CPR 31.14 copy letter etc. Just file one on top of the other in date order, earliest on the bottom.

[avocados]

Thankyou for your time and such a lengthy reply

 

 

First, don't PANIC. You have time to defend this case properly BUT you must also find the virtue of patience. DCAs bombard you with threats before proceedings but once they have issued the claim, they seem to take their own time to send anything out unless it is to their advantage. The courts are also overworked and understaffed, so don't assume you will get any immediate responses.

 

Will try not to panic, I was expecting someone to take me to court eventually but I have not prepared or done any research on what I should do. So all your help is greatfully received and much needed.

 

Second, you need to acknowledge receipt of the claim form. As this is an online claim, you can acknowledge online. The instructions are in the pack you received. Once you acknowledge, there is a confirmation on the website. Print this off and keep safe.

 

Ok done this afternoon thanks

 

Third, write to HCs for copies of the documents. This is known as a CPR 31.14 request. Get this off as soon as you can by recorded delivery (on Monday if possible). There are a number of threads with templates.

 

I have now printed a letter off ready to send recorded on Monday

 

 

Give HCs 14 days to delivery. I doubt that they will so send a short reminder on day 15 and give them another 7 days. Again send by recorded delivery. Each time you post a letter, get a receipt from the Post Office and keep the receipt safe.

 

Fourth, you will have to file a defence. You have 28 days to do so after you have received the claim form, so you have plenty of time. Just enough to allow HCs to respond with the documents if they do have them. In the likely event HCs do not supply the documents (they probably won't respond at all), you can file a defence online. You have up to 8000 characters, so no problem if you file a short defence or what is often called on CAG an 'Embarrassed' defence, although what you have to be embarrassed about I do not know. If the other side have not responded properly within the rules, you can lodge a very good and short defence. But we will leave all that until the end of the month.

 

I have a bit of a problem with these timescales. I am not in the country for 2 weeks from June 18th til I return on July 3rd.

 

Is there anything I can do about this?

 

Finally, one tip on housekeeping. Get yourself a large (A4) folder or ring binder and start filing every piece of paper about the case, starting with the N1 claim form and then the acknowledgement of service, your CPR 31.14 copy letter etc. Just file one on top of the other in date order, earliest on the bottom.

 

Got a folder now thankyou

[avocados]

I have a bit of a problem with these timescales. I am not in the country for 2 weeks from June 18th til I return on July 3rd.

 

Is there anything I can do about this?

 

Anyone please?

 

Will the court give me more time because of this or is it just hard luck and I'm screwed?

[Docman]

Hi avocados,

Strictly speaking a defence should be lodged with the court within 14 days of service of the claim form. However, where the claim is to be defended a further 14 days is allowed if the acknowledgment of service is returned with the first 14 days, thus allowing 28 days after service. I doubt the court would grant a further extension just because you where out of the country. That said, the situation is not as bad as you think and you certainly are not screwed.

I calculate that your defence has to be filed by 3 July which is a Saturday. The Bulk Claim Centre deems anything filed after 4 pm as being filed the next day. IMO, you could file electronically on Sunday 4 July and it would have the same effect as being filed late on 2 July, i.e. looked at by the court on Monday 5 July. However, it is cutting it fine and there is always the small chance that the other side will apply for judgment on day 29 (and thus ignoring any time for service, but hey, this is a DCA we are dealing with!!.

Remember, as the defence is filed electronically, you can file from anywhere in the world provided you can get an internet connection.

Personally, I would prepare my defence on the basis that I have not been supplied with the documents. If the other side haven't responded and the documents haven't arrived by 18 July, I would just file a brief defence as I went away. And if by any chance, the documents arrived as I was going out of my door, or more likely arrive whilst I was away, then I would file an amended defence after I had had he time to consider the documents, even if that meant filing after 3 July.

 

In your case

[debbbbsy]

I think there is a valid CCA but not 100% sure on this. There are also charges on the account but I am unsure of how much.

You should send the solicitor who has instigated proceedings a CPR 31.14.

An official request for the documents they refer to in the POC. The default notice, the notice of assignment, the deed of assignment, a true & verified copy of the agreement, and statements. They have 7 days. Send it recorded.

You can acknowlegde the claim online(without admitting you owe the money). How you proceed further will depend on what they supply. If they fail to comply by the time you have to respond to the claim, you can file an "Embarrassed Defence", you niether admit nor deny the claim.

 

If they provide the docs(post them up to ensure they are not defective) then it will go to court, the court will set the repayments based on what you can afford. If you are on any benefits, they cannot take this, also you may be exempt from court costs.

 

If they do then get judgement against you. Check the agreement, if it does not have a Post Judgment interest Clause, the account will be frozen. Aslong as you maintain payments as per the judgment, they cannot go for a charging order.

 

Good Luck

 

Debs

[avocados]

I am actually looking forward to being in court as it will give me the opportunity to prove that I have got nothing and cannot afford the ridiculous payments demanded by all of these DCA's. Like 99% of people being harrassed,bullied and having ther life made a misery by these people I'd pay if I could but I can't give what I don't have and a judge should agree and see sense with this. I don't want to disclose my hand too much and go into reasons why as they are probably reading this but under my current circumstances they will never get a charging order or an attachment of earnings and if i have to I'll just go bankrupt as I have nothing to lose so they will get eff all anyway.

 

Am I also right in thinking that say if I have £100 expendible income a month and a DCA is asking for judgement on a debt which is 10% of my total debts the most a judge can ask me to pay is 10% - £10 per month so I can set up fair repayment plans with other creditors? (round figures used to show easy example!)

[avocados]

Ok the info I asked for by CPR 31.14 has not yet arrived. As stated before I am away on Friday for a fortnight so will take docmans advice and file a defence as I go away based on not having all/correct documents. I will defintely need help with this if someone could please?

 

Should the documents turn up whislt I am away it will give me all day Saturday 3rd july to prepare a new defence and I'll just have to hope that someone is around on here that day to assist me :-|

[avocados]

I have had a reply from crapquest.

 

They say that they are not bound by the consumer credit act to provide the documents as I have not provided a £1 fee??

 

I thought that a request for doicumentation by 31.14 was totally different than a cca request and does not require a £1 fee? Have I got mixed up here?

 

The only thing they have sent me is a letter that I have never seen before stating that they have purchased the debt from MBNA. No agrrement, no default notice and no termination notice which I asked for.

 

Can someone advise if I should have sent £1 fee for a 31.14 and what I should do next?

[citizenB]

I have had a reply from capquest.

 

They say that they are not bound by the consumer credit act to provide the documents as I have not provided a £1 fee??

 

I thought that a request for doicumentation by 31.14 was totally different than a cca request and does not require a £1 fee? Have I got mixed up here?

 

The only thing they have sent me is a letter that I have never seen before stating that they have purchased the debt from MBNA. No agrrement, no default notice and no termination notice which I asked for.

 

Can someone advise if I should have sent £1 fee for a 31.14 and what I should do next?

 

 

If you requested the documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim by way of a CPR31.14 request they are LEGALLY obliged to provide them free of charge and the solicitor should know this. They could be in big trouble for attempting to charge you for documents made under CPR !

 

You did send the request to the solicitor on the claim form didnt you ?

[avocados]

Here is the reponse I received

 

capquest pictures by thk1111 - Photobucket

[avocados]

If you requested the documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim by way of a CPR31.14 request they are LEGALLY obliged to provide them free of charge and the solicitor should know this. They could be in big trouble for attempting to charge you for documents made under CPR !

 

You did send the request to the solicitor on the claim form didnt you ?

 

Yes sent by recorded delivery last week

[citizenB]

It seems to me as though there might be a bit of a mix up.

 

Did you send the CPR31.14 request to HL Legal, the solicitors mentioned on the Claim form. Or to CapQuest.

 

If you sent it to CapQuest, then yes, they will likely believe you are requesting the docs under the CCA1974 for which there will be a charge of £1.00 and they are correct.. they are not obliged to send the agreement to you in 7 days. The regulations say 12 + 2.

 

However, you should have requested from the solicitors, HL Legal.. the following documents under CPR31.14

 

The agreement

The assignment

The default notice

 

all of which are mentioned in the particulars of claim and would be free.

 

You need to read the following threads.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/255329-cpr-18-cpr-31-a.html

 

HTH

[Docman]

All thi shows is what idiots crapquest are! The requirement to send the statutory fee of £1 relates to requests made under S78 of the CCA for copy agreements. Your request is made under the court's rules for copies of documents referred to in the POCs. As CS stated, they will be in trouble trying to charge you for documents they should have sent to you for free.

 

i suggest you file the 'embrassed' defence but add that when you sent a CPR 31.14 request, you got this reply. You should add that you exhibit a copy of your 31.14 request and the reponse. If you are not sure, post up a draft for comment.

[avocados]

I have just double checked what I sent.

 

To confirm I sent a cpr31.14 to HL legal - 100 % certain.

 

It was not to capquest and it was not a CCA request

 

See below for what I sent (some bits deleted to shorten foor this post)

 

...my address...

 

 

HL Legal Collections

Herbert Street

Redditch

Worcestershire

B98 8BL

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: CAPQUEST INVESTMENTS LIMITED v ME Case No: .....

 

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On ..... I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment

 

3 the default notice

 

4 the termination notice

 

 

................]

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. .............

 

Where I have mentioned a..............

 

......

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. ...........w..........

 

If you a.........

 

..........

Yours Faihfully

 

me

 

Muppets!!!!!!!!!

[citizenB]

Muppets!!!!!!!!!

 

Right, you sent it Recorded Delivery. Have you checked RM Website to see if it has been delivered. Sometimes they manage to avoid signing for things.. so if it doesnt say whether or not it has been delivered or no signature, dont worry too much.

 

IMHO, I would assume it has been delivered and if the 7 days are up then send them the following:

 

Dear HL Legal,

 

Claim number:

CapQuest - v - avocados

 

In respect of the above claim made against me, I wrote to you on DATE. A copy of my CPR31.14 request is enclosed for your attention.

 

All that has been received is a letter from CapQuest DATED advising me that I would have to pay £1.00 for a copy of the agreement.

 

Under CPR31.14, I am not obliged to pay you for documents that are mentioned in the Particulars of Claim.

 

As time is pressing for me to submit my defence and as you have not provided those documents requested, I would ask that you agree to an extension of time as allowed by CPR15.5.

 

“Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part15.htm#IDAUXNTB

 

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.”

However, please bear in mind that it is my responsibility to advise the court of any extension and I will require sufficient time in order to contact them with the new filing date in writing as per CPR15.5 (2).

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

If you feel confident enough, you could telephone HL Legal and get them to agree verbally to an extension and also find out WHEN they will fulfil your CPR31.14 request.

 

Then amend the letter above to say something like.. having contacted your office today, it has been agreed that you will allow an extension of time in order to file my defence in that you have been unable to fulfil my CPR request for copies of documents mentioned in your defence.

 

Then you need to contact Northampton to advise what is happening.

 

Dont get sidetracked by HL Legal, you just want to know where your CPR31.14 is, if they cant do anything about it yet, then will they agree to an extension of time.

 

If they say NO and NO then I think you may have to submit an application to the court for them to order HL to comply.

 

HTH

[Docman]

CB

 

Does the question of delivery of the CPR 31.14 letter arise? If avocados sent a letter on 7 June to HL Legal, and they forwarded the letter to their clients who responded and quote the date of 7 June, I would have thought that neither HL Legal nor Capquest can then deny they have not received the letter.

[avocados]

Thankyou both for your advice.

 

They have admitted in their reply that they have received my letter.

 

I am not sure if I would like to speak to these on the telephone but I know that I am very limited for time, I'm not not in the country from Friday for 2 weeks then my time is up on the saturday giving me one day to prepare! So I may have to get dialing

 

Or will citizen b's letter be sufficient?

[citizenB]

CB

 

Does the question of delivery of the CPR 31.14 letter arise? If avocados sent a letter on 7 June to HL Legal, and they forwarded the letter to their clients who responded and quote the date of 7 June, I would have thought that neither HL Legal nor Capquest can then deny they have not received the letter.

 

Docman, you are correct. My apologies, I didnt read the letter from CapQuest correctly.

 

In which case, I have amended the letter to HL Legal (as avocado doesnt feel confident enough to phone) as follows:

 

 

Dear HL Legal,

 

Claim number:

CapQuest - v - avocados

 

In respect of the above claim made against me, I wrote to you on DATE. A copy of my CPR31.14 request is enclosed for your attention.

 

All that has been received is a letter from CapQuest DATED advising me that I would have to pay £1.00 for a copy of the agreement.

 

Under CPR31.14, I am not obliged to pay you for any documents that are mentioned in the Particulars of Claim and requested under CPR.

 

As time is pressing for me to submit my defence and as you have not provided those documents requested, I would ask that you agree to an extension of time as allowed by CPR15.5.

 

 

“Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part15.htm#IDAUXNTB

 

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

 

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.”

 

However, please bear in mind that it is my responsibility to advise the court of any extension and I will require sufficient time in order to contact them with the new filing date in writing as per CPR15.5 (2).

If you chose to ignore this letter, I will be bringing your non compliance to the attention of the court.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

If you dont hear from them in sufficient time, then I guess you have the two options open.

 

Apply to the court and have them order the Claimant to comply or a very short embarrassed defence.

 

Does that cover it, Docman ?

[avocados]

Citizen b's letter has been sent. Thankyou for your help.

 

Shall I file a defence now based on them not sending me any paperwork and edit later if needed?

[citizenB]

IF you are going to file an embarrassed defence, it should be just that.. embarrassed.. something along the lines of :

 

 

DEFENCE

 

1. The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR (even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system).

 

2. Further to that above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

3. On DATE OF CPR LETTER, a request was made of the solicitors acting for the Claimant, by way of CPR31.14, for copies of the documents that the Claimant mentions in their Particulars of Claim.

 

3a The Claimant has responded to that request in their letter dated DATE OF LETTER advising that I am required to pay the sum of £1.00 for this information and that they are not obliged to respond within 7 days

 

4. Furthermore, the Claimant fails to plead that this claim concerns an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, 1974. However, the Claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act, 1984 which the Claimant should surely know they are not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award:

 

· The general rule

 

2(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment - (a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

 

Wait for other comments and suggestions though.

[avocados]

Hello

 

I am back and have just today left to file the defence.

 

They have not sent me anything at all for cpr 31.14 not even an acknowledgement of my letter. It was sent recorded delivery so will check with royal mail that it has been received.

 

How shall i proceed now please?

[avocados]

Letter has arrived in the post this morning.

 

They state that they will give me a 28 day extension to file a defence and that they have sent a copy of this confirmation to Northants CC.

 

Do I need to do anything immediatley now or just await to see if docs arrive from them?

[citizenB]

Letter has arrived in the post this morning.

 

They state that they will give me a 28 day extension to file a defence and that they have sent a copy of this confirmation to Northants CC.

 

Do I need to do anything immediatley now or just await to see if docs arrive from them?

 

 

 

It is good that you have received confirmation of an extension in writing. However, the situation remains the same. If they do not provide you with the information requested then you will still be embarrased

 

You will require at least two weeks to prepare your defence if you receive the paperwork required. So make a note of the extension date and give yourself 2 weeks from that date. If you have not received any information, then you may well have to either write to them again or submit a N244 application to ask a court to order them to comply.

 

I suggest you also phone Northampton on Monday morning and confirm with them that they have received the letter from the solicitors.

 

HTH

Edited July 3, 2010 by citizenB
removed uneccessary question