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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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Am I entitled to redundancy?


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Hi. At the end of March the company I work for is closing down. The partners are going their separate ways and both are setting up their own business. They have said as far as they are concerned the new business's are just that - New, with changed names, accounts etc. One is staying on the original premises, and he has offered me employment. One of the partners's thinks I am not entitled to any redundancy, the other thinks I am. I have worked there for 16yrs. I am asssuming I will be given a new contract once the new job starts. Should I be entitled or not? please help. Many thanks.

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You are either entitled to redundancy or TUPE (that is the transfer of all your employment rights and conditions intact to the new employer). I cannot tell you which as there simply isn't enough detail to say. It seems that this is a difference between the partners - my best advice would be that they get legal advice on this matter because it is definitely one or the other, and they will fall foul of the law very seriously (and very expensively!) if they don't.

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Thanks for your reply, it was very helpful. Just to elaborate the partner who has offered me a job, has said that I should be entitled to redundancy, as the original business ends at the end of march. The other partner has said that if I accept a position with their ex partner, it would be illegal for me to have a redundancy payment. If I am offered TUPE it puts all the responsiblity of future redundancy with the partner who has offered me employment, which seems unfair to him, as I have been there for 16yrs now! many thanks

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It may seem unfair to him - but it is the law! If this is a transfer of undertakings in law, then he takes on all your employment rights and conditions as are, and there is no getting around it. If he attempts to, even with your collusion (it seems you get on with them and might be tempted!) then he could land himself with a bill that will make redundancy (whenever that might occur) triivial. And so would the other partner. I do not think that it is unreasonable for them to get legal advice - it will cost them a pittance compared to the loss they could face. They are in business - they should be making sure that their business practices accord with the law. And you have a lot to loose here too. If they are decent people, they will want to get it right, even if it means there is a bill to do so.

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Once again thanks for your reply, it's is very helpful. Sorry to keep bothering you, but it's difficult to find information on the web. I have looked into TUPE and that seems to apply if the original business continues under a new owner. The business I work for will cease trading in March. And the business I will work for, would be a new business with a new name, but I would be working for one of the partners of the original business. It's the other partner being difficult, she said that she has been advised (I think by her accountant) that it would be illegal to pay me redundancy and then me being employed by the other partner. I feel that I should be entitled to redundancy as the new business has no ties to the current business. I'm not sure if I'm right! she is a force to contend with. I thought ACAS may be able to advise me! Many thanks

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ACAS cannot be held liable for any (often) incorrect advice that they give. The correct course of action is for your employers to take legal advice - which does not come from accountants. Even if the company stops trading that does not mean it isn't a transfer of undertakings - a company can go bankrupt and still be subject to TUPE when bought out. The test is far more complex than you think. And this isn't your problem - it is your employers. I don't think you understand fully, but if they pay you off you will loose all your employment rights. This isn't simply about about whether or not you get redundancy - as I have already said - you get one or the other and that is an absolute. But your employment rights are valuable to you.

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Thanks for the reply. I will let them get legal advise and wait on their decision. With regards to not losing my rights, I only get the basics anyway. I've had children so no maternity needed. But thanks for the advise

 

ACAS cannot be held liable for any (often) incorrect advice that they give. The correct course of action is for your employers to take legal advice - which does not come from accountants. Even if the company stops trading that does not mean it isn't a transfer of undertakings - a company can go bankrupt and still be subject to TUPE when bought out. The test is far more complex than you think. And this isn't your problem - it is your employers. I don't think you understand fully, but if they pay you off you will loose all your employment rights. This isn't simply about about whether or not you get redundancy - as I have already said - you get one or the other and that is an absolute. But your employment rights are valuable to you.
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Don't feel afraid to suggest that they seek legal advice if the opportunity arises, rather than just being fobbed off. The law is clear in that this is either one situation OR the other - you may think that your employment rights are only basic, but with long service goes the right not to be unfairly dismissed, which in the current environment is worth a huge amount. Therefore a redundancy payout with 16 years service might seem attractive, but it may also be better to retain the long service under TUPE, with your employment rights intact, and if the worst happens in the months or years to come you would still enjoy the employment rights AND maintain (or even enhance) the redundancy payment.

 

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Thanks for your reply. I have read that if You find employment straight away,you may not be entitled to redundancy . I'm unsure if this is the case but I will post any developments. Many thanks

 

 

Don't feel afraid to suggest that they seek legal advice if the opportunity arises, rather than just being fobbed off. The law is clear in that this is either one situation OR the other - you may think that your employment rights are only basic, but with long service goes the right not to be unfairly dismissed, which in the current environment is worth a huge amount. Therefore a redundancy payout with 16 years service might seem attractive, but it may also be better to retain the long service under TUPE, with your employment rights intact, and if the worst happens in the months or years to come you would still enjoy the employment rights AND maintain (or even enhance) the redundancy payment.

 

Please keep us up to date with developments.

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Thanks for your reply. I have read that if You find employment straight away,you may not be entitled to redundancy . I'm unsure if this is the case but I will post any developments. Many thanks

 

That would also not be correct! If you have been served redundancy notice and find alternative employment you serve counter-notice and still get your redundancy. If of course you are redundant and not TUPE'd - one of which is certainly the case.

 

I do not wish to be rude - but you seem remarkably keen to let your employers "off the hook" here. Employment rights are valuable commodities, and will become more so soon when you will need 2 years employment to claim most of them! Your family may have all "arrived", but most people have a strange attachment to being able to pay the bills and have a social life, a holiday and so on. Your employers may be the nicest people in the world - but they are still employers. It is their legal obligation to get this right, not yours. If things go belly up, I seriously doubt that your employers will be looking after your interests above their own - but you seem almost keen to forego not just your possible redundancy payment, but also your employment rights. Look after your own interests - I can assure you that they will be looking after theirs. No matter how nice they may be.

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Thanks for the reply. I think you are mistaken, I am saying I believe I should be entitled to redundancy pay. I will not let them fob me off, and I have always fought for my rights. I just needed some advise on my legal position. Even if I am given a redudancy payment my employer is likely to match terms and conditions, just purely because I can take my skills elsewhere and they would like me to continue with the business when they retire in five years. Believe me, I know I am an employee and not a friend, I just wanted to know what I am legally entitled to . And with regards to the redundancy being withdrawn on finding empoyment, this is what I found whilst trawling the net. If they make a clause in your redundany package that they can do, probably incorrect, which is why I asked for advise on here. Please don't think I want to let them off the hook, because that is just not me!

That would also not be correct! If you have been served redundancy notice and find alternative employment you serve counter-notice and still get your redundancy. If of course you are redundant and not TUPE'd - one of which is certainly the case.

 

I do not wish to be rude - but you seem remarkably keen to let your employers "off the hook" here. Employment rights are valuable commodities, and will become more so soon when you will need 2 years employment to claim most of them! Your family may have all "arrived", but most people have a strange attachment to being able to pay the bills and have a social life, a holiday and so on. Your employers may be the nicest people in the world - but they are still employers. It is their legal obligation to get this right, not yours. If things go belly up, I seriously doubt that your employers will be looking after your interests above their own - but you seem almost keen to forego not just your possible redundancy payment, but also your employment rights. Look after your own interests - I can assure you that they will be looking after theirs. No matter how nice they may be.

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What exactly is the 'partnership' - is it just this a partnership or is it a ltd co? or indeed an LLP?

 

Why not get one partner (the one who doesn't) take you on to indemnify the other against the potential future liabilities of taking on an EE with 16 years continuity of service?

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Thanks for the reply. I think you are mistaken, I am saying I believe I should be entitled to redundancy pay. I will not let them fob me off, and I have always fought for my rights. I just needed some advise on my legal position. Even if I am given a redudancy payment my employer is likely to match terms and conditions, just purely because I can take my skills elsewhere and they would like me to continue with the business when they retire in five years. Believe me, I know I am an employee and not a friend, I just wanted to know what I am legally entitled to . And with regards to the redundancy being withdrawn on finding empoyment, this is what I found whilst trawling the net. If they make a clause in your redundany package that they can do, probably incorrect, which is why I asked for advise on here. Please don't think I want to let them off the hook, because that is just not me!

 

I am quite definitely not mistaken. If an employee is given notice of redundaccy the employer is obligated to pay that, even if the employee finds another job elsewhere. If they find a job within a transeferring organisation then they do not get redundancy - they are TUPE'd with their employment rights intact. It is one or the other - which I have said right from the very beginning. But based on what you have said here it is not at all clear which of these it is. It may be that what you want is your redundancy pay, but that does not mean that that is what is lawfully yours, and if the employer gets it wrong then it could cost them and you. But I do understand now - the question is not about what the law says to protect you, it is about what you have decided you want. I have given you the legal position - which is correct. If you agree to something else then that is your decision and your risk.

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There are 2 married couples. They are all partners. At the end of March the business ends. I have been asked to work for one of the couples. The business will be under a new name and have nothing to do with the previous partnership. It is not a Ltd company. I will see what offer they come to me with. I just thought because of the situation I have described that I would be entitled to redundancy over TUPE as the business is ending and not being transferred.

 

 

What exactly is the 'partnership' - is it just this a partnership or is it a ltd co? or indeed an LLP?

 

Why not get one partner (the one who doesn't) take you on to indemnify the other against the potential future liabilities of taking on an EE with 16 years continuity of service?

 

Che

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When I say you are mistaken, I am not referring to your legal opinion. I am referring to the opinion you have made regarding my view on this situation. If you refer to my original posting. The business is closing at the end of March it is not transferring, so that information was always there. The offer of employment is for the new business, which is why I thought I would be entitled to redundancy. I am not after what I want, I am after what I am entitled to. And this information is difficult to find.

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I have been telling you all along. It is not as simple as you think. I fully understand that the business is closing, but that does not mean that TUPE does not apply. Businesses can go bust (and that is a very definite closure) and be bought up by somebody entirely different, and still be classed as a TUPE. In this case you are staying in the same premises, with one of the former partners - and could it be that the business will be very similar or the same as what you are doing now as well? In which case there is a very strong possibility that it would be classed as a TUPE. What you are misunderstanding is what the legal definition of transferring is - it is not about whether the business is closing and the partners going their own ways, it is about the context of the migration from one employer to another. This is not a case of your resigning because you have found another job, packing your desk and going somewhere else. So it may be either a TUPE or a redundancy and only a legal opinion on the cirsumtances, taking into account all the details, can answer the question - and since that legal opinion is up to the employer to obtan, I therefore said that this is what they should do.

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