Council tax bailiff visit: have i been ripped off?

[rippedoffithink]

Hi, this is my first post on here. We fell behind on our council tax payments last year, and it was sent to court. i phoned the council and agreed to pay £130 a month for the rest of the couuncil tax period. On friday, I had a knock on the door, and it was a bailiff come to speak to my hysband and I about our council tas arrears. I told him that i pay it by BACS £132 every month. He telephoned his office and was told that the BACS had been cancelled because decembers payment had not gone through. (Obviously not enough money in my account to pay it). So he said lets have a chat about it, and came into the house. He asked us if we could pay the outstanding balance of £440.05, to which I replied no. He then told us that we could pay monthly but not by BACS because it had been stopped, and because of this he would have to do an inentory of our possessions incase we did not pay. I checked my bank balance and found that I could pay the balance off with my debit card on the day. So he then worked out our bill which came to 509.55 with charges. I gave him my card and he phoned the payment through. The payment was succesful, yet he still took down a list of our possessions in the living room (tv, xbox and wii). Did he need to do this since we had paid the full amount, and did we need to pay all those charges, since we cleared the bill? As far as I can understand form the copy of the notice of seizure

and inventory he gave me, we were charged £22.50 release fee, £36 for levy

fee, and £11 possession fee. Are these charges correct??

Thanks for your help

[fork-it]

Hi, this is my first post on here. We fell behind on our council tax payments last year, and it was sent to court. i phoned the council and agreed to pay £130 a month for the rest of the couuncil tax period. On friday, I had a knock on the door, and it was a bailiff come to speak to my hysband and I about our council tas arrears. I told him that i pay it by BACS £132 every month. He telephoned his office and was told that the BACS had been cancelled because decembers payment had not gone through.

The bailiff cannot 'cancel' a BACS, only you, the account holder.

 

If you were already paying the arrears and you then receive a bailiff, you can disregard the fees under Section 1 of the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971.

 

(Obviously not enough money in my account to pay it). So he said lets have a chat about it, and came into the house.

 

BIG mistake. Never let them in.

 

[He asked us if we could pay the outstanding balance of £440.05, to which I replied no. He then told us that we could pay monthly but not by BACS because it had been stopped, and because of this he would have to do an inentory of our possessions incase we did not pay. I checked my bank balance and found that I could pay the balance off with my debit card on the day. So he then worked out our bill which came to 509.55 with charges.

 

The amouint payable is the outstanding liability plus £24.50 (if genuine)

 

[i gave him my card and he phoned the payment through. The payment was succesful, yet he still took down a list of our possessions in the living room (tv, xbox and wii). Did he need to do this since we had paid the full amount, and did we need to pay all those charges, since we cleared the bill?

 

Correct, the work wasnt required because Section 45(3) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 says:

 

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

Source:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/45/made

 

You need to claim a refund from the council. If you are fobbed off with "contact the bailiffs" then speak to your local councillor, and if no joy then contact the Local Government Ombudsman siting the folowing case law:

 

JBW Enforcement Ltd v City of Westminster [2009] EWHC 2697 (QB), the Judge, Mr Justice Jack said:

 

Thus the bailiff gets paid only through the process of execution: if he becomes entitled to charge fees, but does not continue with the execution process, he will not recover them and he cannot sue the debtor for them.

 

Source:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/2697.html

 

 

 

 

[As far as I can understand form the copy of the notice of seizure

and inventory he gave me, we were charged £22.50 release fee, £36 for levy

fee, and £11 possession fee. Are these charges correct??

Thanks for your help

 

No they are not correct, he has made them up. The law sets the statutory bailiffs fees which, in our case is £24.50 but you sould reclaim it because payments were already in progress

[rippedoffithink]

Thanks for the reply, and the info. If I was to cancel the card payment, and then pay the council direct, because I signed that document would they have the right to come into my home and take our possessions? Do I have the right to cancel the card payment now, or is it too late? And what charges would I have to pay to the bailiffs if I did this? Or is it easier to do as you suggested, and leave the payment go through, and then claim the charges back from the council?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I am not very clued up on all this, and need all the help I can get!!

[fork-it]

Thanks for the reply, and the info. If I was to cancel the card payment, and then pay the council direct,

 

You can try that if you want to, its easier if you can but different rules for credit cards. Credit cards: you can claim a refund via your bank as a chargeback because the bailiff made a false representation (bogus fees) to obtain a credit money transfer contrary to Section 54 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because ciivil enforcement is a regulated activity (the Ministry of Justice is the Industry Regulator). The bank has a duty to make a refund under Section 75 of the Act.

 

because I signed that document would they have the right to come into my home and take our possessions?

 

Technically yes, but its unlikely, but that cannot do touch your goods in your absence. Khazanchi & Anor v Faircharm Investments Ltd & Ors [1998] EWCA Civ 471 : On 17 March 1998 Lord Justice Morritt in the High Court ruled that bailiffs having a Walking Possessions Agreement cannot remove anything whilst the debtor is absent unless it is pre-arranged by appointment and with an Order signed by a Judge. The Judge also said in his conclusion, However it should be noted that in cases such as these there may be a sanction pursuant to Section 1 of the Criminal Damage Act l971. In other cases the provisions of Section 6 of the Criminal Law Act may apply also.

 

Source: http://vlex.co.uk/vid/ur-judge-cox-52584219

 

 

Do I have the right to cancel the card payment now,

 

Yes.

 

or is it too late? And what charges would I have to pay to the bailiffs if I did this?

 

None,

 

The law : Section 43(3) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 says: If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

Source: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/45/made

 

Or is it easier to do as you suggested, and leave the payment go through, and then claim the charges back from the council?

 

Small claims track is very reliable and always name the council and bailiffs company as Joint defendants.

 

Bailiffs quickly pay before the trial date, They can least afford a CCJ againsdt their name and can end their credit license when it is due for renewal.

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I am not very clued up on all this, and need all the help I can get!!

[rippedoffithink]

Thanks again for your reply. I paid by debit card, if this makes any difference. If I was able to get my bank to stop the payment going through, and I then paid the council direct, would I owe the bailiffs anything? Say a first visit fee? And if so would they be able to take my possessions to cover that, even though the items listed would be worth way more than the fees?

 

Sorry to keep asking you questions all the time, but you are extremely helpful, and I definately need all the help I can get!!