DCA threatening CCJ - 1st credit & Citi financial

[coledog]

I got letters from Ist Crud for about a year saying that they were monitoring my credit file and then they stopped - absolute rollocks, ignore and they will go away. Bunch of chancers, in my opinion

[FORMISTER]

Do you have some credit available to you that shows on your credit report? It could be their way of suggesting you use that available credit to pay them some, without saying it directly (it is against the law for them to suggest you get into more debt to pay your debts).

 

Or have you recently paid some other debts off with a full and final?

 

My Dad had a similar letter with his credit report sent to him at HFO. I think it was because he paid 2 accounts off with a full and final and his report showed he had credit available to him (even though he couldn't withdraw any of it).

[Epsilon]

Hi

2 more letters received from Crud. The first was the 10%/20%/30% discount letter. The second was "Special Low Discount Opportunity" You Pay Half We Pay Half letter. Have they got a marketing department now?

 

The more interesting letter & documents have come from Citi who've finally responded to my SAR request - it's taken them a bit longer than 40 days.

 

The letter reads:

 

"Thank you for your recent request for copies of the personal data under s 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 regarding your account.

 

Please find enclosed:

A copy of the personal data provided as part of the application process.

Copies of correspondence received from you.

Copies of the statements issued on the account. Please note no statements were produced after [date] as the account was sold to First Credit.

 

You should note that we do not routinely keep copies of all correspondence sent to customers because the majority of our letters are issued by our customer management system, and this does not maintain any records beyond the letter type and the date the letter was sent, and generally this information is only held for a two year period.

 

We have not provided you with copies of the terms and conditions as these fall outside the definition of personal data for the purposes of the Data Protection Act 1998. Similarly, s 7 (1) © only requires a data controller to provide a copy of the information constituting any personal data, not the actual document on which the personal data is recorded; therefore we have supplied a copy of the information on the agreement/application.

 

Yours sincerely

[illegible signature]

Data Request Team"

 

Enclosed is:

1. A one page printout of personal data - name, address, DOB etc

2. Letter + personal budget + financial statement (both stamped by CAB) sent by me when I first got into financial difficulties.

3. One copy of a cheque + credit slip from many years ago.

4. Copies of statements.

 

As before, comments and advice much appreciated.

Epsilon

[coledog]

Usual Citi sh*t*. they have no documents of use. The fact that 1st Crud are offering 'discounts' tells you that they also have no docs to progress this

[Epsilon]

Thanks Coledog

Your first sentence made me laugh and has cheered me up. I appreciate your continued advice.

Epsilon

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

This account was terminated in 2008 so Citi should have data going back to at least 2005(if your account was started before then). They should also be keeping the data for a period of 6 years from closure. They should have provided copies of your account history (not just statements)

 

I would be writing back asking for your account history and if they cannot provide it, a certificate of destruction. I got this comment from the Information Commissioner.

 

If information has been “purged” from a lender’s system and that information is more than six years old, this would be unlikely to breach the DPA. However if a lender had deleted information relating to an account that was less than 6 years old outside normal industry standards, this could potentially breach the adequacy requirements of the DPA. If an individual raised a complaint of this nature, we would expect the lender to be able to justify the fact that it had deleted information sooner than would normally be the case.

 

So, they need to justify their actions and if they can't (which they won't be able to) you can go to the ICO and complain

[Epsilon]

Hi

Thanks Silverfox. The statements do go back to 2005. But there's definitely no account history. I'll get back to them about this.

Epsilon

[coledog]

You should note that we do not routinely keep copies of all correspondence sent to customers because the majority of our letters are issued by our customer management system, and this does not maintain any records beyond the letter type and the date the letter was sent, and generally this information is only held for a two year period.

 

 

 

This is the killer in my opinion, it was in my SAR response also and should be the core of a complaint to the authoritities

[Epsilon]

Hi

I've received yet another delightful communication from 1st Crud, this one suggesting that there's the possibility of a face to face meeting. It reads:

 

"We have written to you on numerous prior occasions with regards to your CITIFINANCIAL EUROPE PLC account.

However the debt still remains unpaid. If we cannot agree repayment terms then we will be left with no option but to consider legal action against you. We would of course prefer to resolve this matter by reaching a mutually agreeable repayment agreement.

 

"Please act now to avoid an agent attending your property"

As a gesture of good will - We invite you to make us an offer of repayment below on our standing order mandate form. We require that the payment plan is paid monthly and we will accept your offer provided we receive all the monthly payments.

 

Please fill in the below standing order from, sign and send back with the pre paid envelope provided. If you wish to discuss this matter then please call on etc."

 

Is it worth writing back to inform them that any agent "attending my property" would be wasting his time as they have no powers or rights or is it better to ignore?

 

Epsilon

[coledog]

Check this out

 

Door step

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?441-If-you-do-receive-a-doorstep-visit-we-give-these-suggestions-to-Members

Report them to OFT as 1st Crud are under an official warning already

On the evidence provided they have no chance in court so are resorting to threats

[Epsilon]

Thanks Coledog - that's perfect.

Epsilon

[Epsilon]

Hi

Letter received from 1st Crud this week is as follows:

 

"YOU HAVE RAISED A DISPUTE / QUERY

 

We refer to your recent communication advising 1st Credit Ltd that you have a dispute / query in relation to this debt.

 

We will shortly be contacting our client to advise them of your comments. We will contact you with our client's reply in due course. This process may take at least one month.

 

Unless you are querying the full balance we must ask you to contact 1st Credit Ltd immediately to discuss payment of the debt amount you accept is due and payable.

 

Please call this office to provide a suitable contact number.

This will ensure we are able to deal with this matter quickly and efficiently.

 

Telephone us on , your reference is ."

 

I wonder if this is just a ruse to get me to phone them. It would certainly be nice if their letters stopped for a month, but somehow I doubt that they will.

Epsilon

[coledog]

If the account is disputed - they should not be ringing or contacting you - report them to Consumer Direct (Trading Standards) and OFT. Do not ring them or provide a number. You could send them a quick reply saying that you are in receipt of their letter dated ..., as the account is in dispute you will only communicate with them in writing and will complain about their continued harassment to OFT and Trading Standards. Send recorded

 

Trading Standards via http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact

 

OFT http://www.oft.gov.uk/

 

 

OFT Guidance link

 

This helps when drafting a letter to OFT

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?416-The-OFT-Debt-collection-guidance

Edited February 27, 2011 by coledog

[Enron]

The plus side of this situation is that Citi aren't giving out copies of executed agreements to anybody - not even DCAs that have purchased accounts form them.

 

For a period I thought this maybe due to there being a lot of defective agreements, which was certainly the case with mine which Trading Standards helped me obtain (third gen photocopy).... absent prescribed terms making it unenforeceable.

 

However we are talking an American bank here, and Citi have a long list of bad deeds under the belt including laundering drug money, dismantling the glastegel act etc.

 

US banks are notorious for securitising loans/debts, bundling them in bonds which are sold internationally to other financial institutions, pension funds, private individuals. So the sticky part in this scenario for Citi is without possessing the original "executed agreement" how can they prove ownership.

[Epsilon]

Hi All

It's been a relatively quiet year and a bit and then yesterday I received two letters, though they are dated 10 days apart, both from Connaught Collections. The bottom of each letter states, "Connaught Collections is the trading style of 1st Credit Limited which is registered in England and Wales."

 

The first letter reads:

"Re: CITIFINANCIAL EUROPE PLC, Outstanding Debt £x

We have been instructed to recover this overdue account and understand that you have already been furnished with the full details of our client's claim.

 

As we are unaware of any reason for payment being withheld, please forward settlement in full to this office within the next seven days.

 

We should point out that in the event of non-settlement, our client reserves the right to issue legal proceedings if necessary. This would result in additional interest and costs being added to the balance as shown.

 

Yours sincerely etc

 

Our company has the sole control of your account. Payment must be sent to this office. DO NOT PAY A DOORSTEP COLLECTOR, without first gaining our authority."

 

The second letter reads:

"As we are yet to receive an offer of repayment or valid reason for non payment, we will shortly be returning your account to CITIFINANCIAL EUROPE PLC with a recommendation for further action, which may include a doorstep visit and or County Court proceedings.

 

Should you wish to avoid further action I must ask that you forward your repayment proposals to this office by return of post. Outstanding balance: £x

 

For your convenience, we have printed a reply slip for your completion. Your response should be accompanied with your first instalment if you wish to set up a long-term plan.

 

We look forward to hearing from you and reaching an amicable conclusion to this long overdue matter.

 

Please call us to discuss any available discount for immediate settlement.

 

Yours sincerely etc"

 

There's a payslip at the bottom of the letter.

 

I'd appreciate any comments/advice. Thanks

Epsilon

[dx100uk]

as in post 24

they've offered a discount

 

now they send begging letters

 

ignore

 

dx

[Enron]

Sounds like a threat-o-gram in an effort to get you to start making payments.

 

Simple fact is that Citi do not have enforceable agreements for a lot of their accounts, that is why customers have hit a brick wall when trying to gain copies of their agreements. Likewise the DCAs who have purchased accounts have not been furnishing people with copies of agreements - because Citi are unwilling to release them.

 

Strange that 1st Credit have said they will refer the account back to Citi Financial Europe Plc for further action. From memory Citi have pulled out of the credit card business in the UK and sold it onto another company.

 

I do believe this is 1st Credit clutching at straws in an effort to scare people. They never were that bright especially with the likes of photoshopping notifications purporting to come from Citi etc.

[silverfox1961]

In 2001 I applied for a Citi card and they sent me the card with two sets of the agreement; one for me and one to sign and send back. Somehow I forgot to sign the second form and send it back

 

My defaulted balance was around £250 but with all the charges on this is now around the £600 mark. I sent a SAR to Citi who failed spectacularly to supply all my data stating they purged the account history and of course they couldn't supply an agreement as there was none. They couldn't even supply me with a reconstruction.

 

My point is, Citi were so bad at record keeping and deleting data that they should have kept means that some debts will not be able to be enforced as they have no data to rely on.

Cabot have been very quiet with me since 2008.

[Epsilon]

Thanks dx100uk, Enron & silverfox1961 for your replies. I appreciate the advice & support.

Epsilon

[Epsilon]

Another two letters received. The first reads:

 

Our client has invited us to extend a generous discount of 30% off the current balance shown above which if paid will be accepted as full and final satisfaction of this debt.

 

If you are unable to raise the lump sum of £x, we would consider a slightly lower rate of discount if we can agree more favourable repayment terms with you.

 

Please note that this offer can only be held open for a period of thirty days of the date of this letter. etc

 

The second letter reads:

 

According to Credit Bureau Information we have been advised that you are still residing at the above address.

 

We have not had any response to our previous communications. We are therefore unaware if you intend making payments or are unable to do so at this time.

 

We would therefore ask you to contact us to either:

 

a) Make a 'full and final settlement payment'. We can offer you a discount of up to 50%

b) Inform us of the reason you are not prepared to make a payment.

 

If you are unable to pay in one lump sum, we may be able to accommodate an instalment plan. Please forward your payment proposal in writing accompanied alongside your income and expenditure.

 

If we do not hear form you within the next 10 days you details may be referred to our client for further action. etc

 

So a 30% discount has increased to 50% discount in a matter of days. Seems to me if I don't make any reply the discount offered will soon be at 100% - I wish!

[dx100uk]

time to ignore them

 

a discount means thy'll never go near a court

 

prob all the charges !!

 

so NOT a discount...nothing to pay!!

 

dx

[Epsilon]

Letter received from Judge & Priestley LLP

 

Letter reads:

 

"Dear Sir,

 

Re: Debt due to 1st Credit (Finance) Ltd following an assignment between Citifinancial Cards 2007 F/f - Total Debt Outstanding: £x

 

We refer to our previous correspondence with respect to the above mentioned debt.

 

We have been instructed by our client that you have failed to respond to all reasonable requests to settle this outstanding debt and have failed to identify any reason why the debt is not due or owing.

 

In order to avoid legal proceedings being issued against you and costs being incurred you should make payment of this debt immediately.

 

You can contact us if you wish to discuss possible repayment options on the telephone number and contact details provided above.

 

You can also seek free independent advice and assistance from such organisations as listed in the table attached to the back of this letter.

 

Your remittance should be sent to Connaught Collections, The Omnibus Building, Lesbourne Road, Reigate, RH2 7JP and should be made payable to our client, Connaught Collections.

 

If you believe there is a good reason for your failure to settle our client's account, please advise them immediately upon receipt of this letter. If you do not respond to this letter it will be taken that you have no good reason for your failure to pay the account and that such sum is properly due and payable. We will refer to this letter on the question of costs should proceedings subsequently be issued.

 

SHOULD YOU HAVE ANY QUERIES CONCERNING YOUR ACCOUNT, PLEASE CONTACT OUR CLIENT ON TELEPHONE NUMBER 01737 237 373.

 

Yours faithfully

 

JUDGE & PRIESTLEY LLP"

 

Although they refer to 'our previous correspondence', I can't recall receiving any previous letter or letters from Judge & Priestley. As always, any advice will be much appreciated.

Epsilon

[dx100uk]

begging letter

 

ignore

 

dx

[Epsilon]

Thanks dx100uk. It's good to have your continued support.

[Epsilon]

Account Transferred to Mackenzie Hall

New letter received which reads:

 

"Dear x

Current Balance: £x

 

We refer to the above and to our numerous previous attempts to discuss with you the payment of this outstanding debt. We are disappointed that despite our attempts you have either not communicated with us or paid the debt in full.

 

Given the above we have decided to engage the services of Mackenzie Hall and your account has been transferred to them.

 

Our instructions to Mackenzie Hall are to seek to obtain the outstanding debt on our behalf. As part of their collection activity Mackenzie Hall may visit you at your property in order to discuss with you the outstanding debt. The intended outcome of any visit is to achieve the repayment of the debt. Mackenzie Hall will communicate with you before they visit you.

 

Whilst your account is with Mackenzie Hall any payments and correspondence regarding your account should be directed to them.

 

Please contact Mackenzie Hall directly regarding this account on 01563 556515.

 

Yours sincerely etc"

 

As always, all advice is gratefully received.

 

Epsilon