Busted today

[LadyLa]

Hi I hope posting a new thread is ok. I'm still so upset I'm not thinking straight. I was caught today with an item worth a few quid, that I allegedly deliberately did not pay for. I did not admit guilt in fact, I told them it was a genuine mistake. There is cctv evidence as well.

 

What I need to know is this: The store manager took my name and address, and date of birth. I will be getting a letter from RLP soon apparently. How much is this likely to be? Should I ignore the letters? (I do have mental health issues, but if the amount is not that much, I might just pay it in order not to have the worry of a whole "proving" process). I take it you go on the database of death whether or not you pay?

 

Also, if I pay by debit card, will the fact that I have this on my bank details be something to worry about? If so, I will risk paying by postal order. What a mess.

Edited December 1, 2010 by LadyLa

[rebel11]

Hi Lady

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will advise as soon as they are available. The guys won't judge just advise. There are quite a few stickies on the subject.

[LadyLa]

Thanks rebel I have tried speed-reading the stickies (not easy when in a state of panic/beating-oneself-up/fear)

 

(posted this reply a minute ago but could not see it, so reposting, apologies for any duplication (again, panic/beating-oneself-up/fear!!)

[rebel11]

Hi Lady

 

Clam down, the guys here will help you deal with this. Stop panicing, stop beating yourself up, and you have nothing to fear. Switch the PC off, listen to some music.

Come back tomorrow. It's happened, we need to manage what happens. It will take them to send any letter, thats if they do.

 

Thanks rebel I have tried speed-reading the stickies (not easy when in a state of panic/beating-oneself-up/fear)

 

(posted this reply a minute ago but could not see it, so reposting, apologies for any duplication (again, panic/beating-oneself-up/fear!!)

[ScarletPimpernel]

Were the police called, and if so, did they attend and take any action?

[LadyLa]

Were the police called, and if so, did they attend and take any action?

 

Hi no the police were not called. However, the female member of staff searched my handbag and more or less accused me of stealing something she found that I'd paid for a week or so ago, which I protested.

 

I gave my name and address, and date of birth to the manager, which I gather I probably didn't need to do, however, I did as I didn't want them to call the police. I remained calm the whole time. (Whilst internally stressed to the max).

 

ps - they also took my loyalty card and key fob and banned me from all stores for one year.

Edited December 1, 2010 by LadyLa

[ScarletPimpernel]

If the police were not called, you were not therefore charged and have not been convicted of any offence. You are, in the eyes of the law, entirely innocent of any crime.

 

You may get a letter from RLP demanding money, but as you have done nothing wrong any claim they make is entirely without foundation.

[dx100uk]

they had NO legal right to search you or your property NOR take your personal details without a police officer being present.

 

THEY ARE NOT NOR CAN A SECURITY GUARD PLAY AT BEING A POLICEMAN

THEY HAVE NO LEGAL POWERS TO DO ANYTHING TO YOU.

 

totally ignore the RLP leeching letters

and the DCA threats that will come.

 

dx

[LadyLa]

Thankyou ScarletP and dx100. I have read and re-read info on the CAB website and on this site, and the CAB advises that you can ignore the letters from RLP, however, you are risking their client (the retailer) taking you to court.

 

The retailer has cctv evidence, which IMO is not conclusive, however, I cannot see what they have seen. I edited my original thread opener as I read on here that it is not advisable to give many details on a public forum which is accessed by RLP. Are you 100% certain that, as the police were not called, that there are no grounds for RLP to invoice me? I am not so sure, as the CAB says that the retailer can resurrect a case against you for a long time after if RLP advise them that the invoicee has not paid . I'm very confused.

 

After calling a couple of local CAB's (and being advised that they are seriously understaffed), I may try to get up there tomorrow early and wait in the drop-in queue to get an initial assessment. You cannot get a proper appt until they have assessed you. I am also snowed in at the moment. I have also called a legal helpline who advised me that I would need to speak to someone who could help me with letters to RLP (this would be free from this particular org).

 

ScarletP - You are absoutely certain about your last comment?

[ScarletPimpernel]

On reflection, if you receive a demand from RLP, you should respond denying any wrongdoing.

 

Probably because of the bad publicity their activities have attracted, RLP have found themselves in the embarrassing position of having to admit that despite all their threats, they haven't actually taken anyone to court for shoplifting - just as they didn't really have the approval of ACPO or the PSNI as their website claimed.

 

RLP are big on making claims they cannot substantiate - see the recent BBC documentary in which RLP's director said that the police were called in all cases, which was promptly then shown to be untrue.

 

Consequently, of late they seem to have started taking a few cases to court - cases they hope will be undefended and they will gain a default judgement, so they can reassure their clients that they do what they claim.

 

If an individual has not committed a crime, then a claim from RLP will be without foundation. Think of it this was - if all anyone had to do was make an accusation, we could all sue whomever we liked for whatever we liked. The fact is that if RLP take someone to court they have to prove their claim to the court.

[LadyLa]

On reflection, if you receive a demand from RLP, you should respond denying any wrongdoing.

 

Probably because of the bad publicity their activities have attracted, RLP have found themselves in the embarrassing position of having to admit that despite all their threats, they haven't actually taken anyone to court for shoplifting - just as they didn't really have the approval of ACPO or the PSNI as their website claimed.

 

RLP are big on making claims they cannot substantiate - see the recent BBC documentary in which RLP's director said that the police were called in all cases, which was promptly then shown to be untrue.

 

Consequently, of late they seem to have started taking a few cases to court - cases they hope will be undefended and they will gain a default judgement, so they can reassure their clients that they do what they claim.

 

If an individual has not committed a crime, then a claim from RLP will be without foundation. Think of it this was - if all anyone had to do was make an accusation, we could all sue whomever we liked for whatever we liked. The fact is that if RLP take someone to court they have to prove their claim to the court.

 

Thanks Scarlet P. I have been getting responses from the legal help orgs I contacted - hit a brick wall. All I want is advice in writing a letter if I decide that's what I'm going to do. I have been reading more threads on here, and someone said that the CAB is not that good. I can't get up there anyway due to being snowed in.

 

Just to reiterate, the fact that the police were not called means that this is not a crime, despite the fact that the retailer says they have cctv evidence to prove it is? And, knowing my luck, I would be one of the cases taken to court. I am not sure i have the nerves of steel required to ignore increasingly scary letters, but I guess that's what they hope that vulnerable people will feel.

 

Getting to the point where i think I will just reply with my circumstances and ask them to tell the retailer I can't pay, and it will be dropped. I guess this is admitting liability, but as someone said, I will go on the Database of Doom whatever I do.

[rebel11]

Hi LadyLa

 

I think you need to wait and see what they say and do.

[LadyLa]

Hi LadyLa

 

I think you need to wait and see what they say and do.

 

Thanks rebel. Judging by the extensive info on here, I can probably predict they will send me an "invoice" (of whatever amount) with a standard-worded letter. It's what I should do after I recieve it that I'm not sure about.

[dx100uk]

send the lod if you must do anything.

 

have a look in the stickys at this forums hpmepage.

 

dx

[LadyLa]

thanks dx100- I have looked at many of the stickys but will read again. What is an lod? I'm guess it's "letter of ???" denial?

 

ps - as I have revealed as much as I dare on a public forum, I would have to progress this query privately in order not to implicate myself. If any of the forum expert team would be willing to undertake private messaging, I would be grateful. Otherwise I will try to continue in here.

Edited December 3, 2010 by LadyLa

[rebel11]

Hi Lady

 

You will be fine here, a lot of the guys here know as much if not more then the site team. So RLP can huff and puff, they will probably try it on, but this is rip off Britain.

[LadyLa]

The main thing I am worried about is their cctv evidence. I have read thru more stickies, and noted the one about RLP notices and other documents that other posters on here have signed. I didn't sign anything, I was only given a copy of an RLP notice with my name and address on it that the store manager had written on it. I didn't sign it or anything else. Hmmmm.

[rebel11]

When you read too much stuff on a subject that can send the mind wondering, and you start thinking all sorts of stuff. Try to keep matters in preportion..

[eyeinthesky]

A little information for you here, in the business where I work, the cctv recordings are reviewed routinely, especially when empty packages or security tags are found dumped. This starts where the package is found, then back-tracked until a good image of the thief is found. Mostly, this means a video of the entire visit can be made, from entry into the store until leaving. This video will be kept for as long as considered necessary, and stills will be produced and attached to an incident report. The stills and video will be shown to local police, just in case they know the persons involved. If they can identify the thieves, then a crime report will be raised, and police will take it from there. If not, then the images will be kept for future use, in case the shoplifter returns, and this will help to spot them.

 

The cctv evidence can be minimal or poor quality, depending on the system installed and the coverage obtained. Some systems are very clear, and if coverage is good, you can be in camera view almost every inch of the way around a store. Some shoplifters will look directly at the cameras, or look at staff/ other customers, to see if they are being noticed. This can be clearly seen on cctv! People will also unzip their bags or part the handles to make concealment easier, again, this is a giveaway that they are about to steal, and can be seen via cctv. This can show intent to steal IMO, but people will still deny that it was deliberate. The police will only give a warning, in my area, when a theft is low value and there is no prior involvement with the police for shoplifting. Typically, this is for theft under £10 in value, and they are aware that a civil recovery notice will be issued.

 

You have stated in another thread that you have stolen on other occasions, so I guess it was only a matter of time before you got caught. You might get away with it on a couple of occasions, but you will get caught in the end, as you have found out. Where I work, a previous un- caught offender may come back to the store. They will not be stopped, but will be closely observed to see if they can be caught stealing on this visit. Usually they will, but if they do not steal on this occasion, then they will be left alone. They will be caught eventually!

 

On the subject of RLP, the video is not routinely sent to them, but they can request it if they want. A still photo is usually sent to them with the report. Someone said they are now taking cases to court, but you can take the chance that they won't in your case. If the value was around £4, as you said, and they have not reported any earlier thefts, I would think it unlikely that they would proceed to court in your case. I know you said you felt they owed you, but clearly, stealing is not the way to deal with this.

[LadyLa]

Yes, I know it was not the way to deal with it thank you eyeinthesky. I removed the more revealing post that I made on another thread because of High Horse Hammy putting in his 2 pence worth on his soapbox of virtue. I will not do it again, and if I ever feel aggrieved, I will try to deal with it by talking to management (which I did at the time of the tenner being left in the change slot but the manager was unavailable, and the woman I dealt with very hostile).

 

I will post more on here when I recieve the "invoice". I guess it will be delayed because of the weather. I do think there should be deterrents to theft, but there also should be some redress for people when they have to account for every penny, and stores do not play fair. The situation is only going to get worse I think. But thanks for that info.

[LadyLa]

Update - nothing yet from RLP (probably still early days), but something strange happened earlier this evening. I had a call from a private number on my mobile. I don't usually pick up witheld numbers, but for some reason, I did this time. I said "hello" a couple of times, and then this pre-recorded message suddenly came on. It was about how to deal with debt and how to write off any debts you have.

 

I hope this is just coincidence, as I didn't give any phone number to the food retailer on the occasion that is the topic of this thread. If it isn't coincidence, I think there are confidentiality issues with data here.

[rebel11]

Hi Lady

 

I can assure you there are no confidentiality issues with this site. It is possible to get marketing calls from debt management calls, there are various ways that they have got hold of your mobile number.

 

If you have any concerns, please contact ADMIN.

 

Update - nothing yet from RLP (probably still early days), but something strange happened earlier this evening. I had a call from a private number on my mobile. I don't usually pick up witheld numbers, but for some reason, I did this time. I said "hello" a couple of times, and then this pre-recorded message suddenly came on. It was about how to deal with debt and how to write off any debts you have.

 

I hope this is just coincidence, as I didn't give any phone number to the food retailer on the occasion that is the topic of this thread. If it isn't coincidence, I think there are confidentiality issues with data here.

[LadyLa]

Rebel, thanks for the reply (I worded my last post in a confusing way) but I was referring to RLP's data issues (or the food retailer's), not referring to this site.

 

I gave no phone number to the food retailer, and yet I get a marketing call from a debt management org. After reading some other threads on here to do with RLP and their Database of Doom, it might be that they have passed my info onto credit ref agencies, which are then passed on to debt management companies. I'm trying to work out the data trail here. Everything is connected up these days and somehow, my phone number was obtained by this company. I have never ever recieved a call like this on my mobile. They must have got my number from my name. I hope this is just coincidence.

[rebel11]

Hi Lady

 

Keep a record of all such calls. Date/time.

 

Theres a new report from CAB on RLP. It's on the site, should be one of the Sticky's.

[JACTAC]

Hi there Lady,

your incident is very simular to my own just last week. I was and still am in a state of shock over what i did. Also as with you the police were not called and i was given the option to pay for the item and leave the store, with a ban, which i accepted without argument.

If i do get a letter from RLP, i will not take it laying down, at the end of the day i was given the option to pay for the item and i now hold a receiept for it, however as you point out some retailers still ask RLP to claw back even for more money if they can get away with it.

In my case cctv showed me "acting suspicious ", well i say to RLP if they can show me a shopper that pays for their goods acting in a "normal" manner then i can also show a "suspicious " shopper also paying for their goods ! People act differently for all sorts of reasons, it does not mean they are shoplifters just because the have a bloody twich, for instance.

Anyway i'm gonna see what happens and fight any RLP letter that arrives, if one does, and i suggest you do the same. I'm not being cocky about what i did but i think that if the store allows someone to pay for the item after an "incident" has occured and also bans them, all without calling the police, then that is what the store has decided to do to deal with that "incident", end of matter surely !