**Bailiffs took my car this morning - please advise** ***WON!!!***

[hedgey06]

Hi everyone........... I haven't posted on CAG for a long time but this morning my car was taken by High Court Enforcement Officers (Andrew Wilson and Co) acting on behalf of Salford Council.

 

To cut a long story short, I had an agreed payment plan with the Bailiffs which I have stuck to and have receipts for but they have decided this isn't enough and the car is being sold at auction within the next 7 days unless I can give them a substantial amount towards the debt (approx £2K apparently). I don't have the cash to give them and the car won't raise much at auction.

 

I've complied with everything they've asked me to do and I feel sick that they've taken the car ....... I had no choice but to give them the keys as they turned up at my home at 6.45 and said they would remove it by tow truck unless I handed the keys over.

 

Is there anything that I can do?????? Please help if possible as my head is whizzing and I don't have a clue what to do next.

[hedgey06]

Never mind - contacted the bailiffs.......... they want the amount owed in full (thousands more than is actually owed) to return the car which I obviously can't do. They're selling the car for whatever they can get then I'll hear from them again.

[hedgey06]

Hi hallowitch, thanks for replying.

 

The debt was for a car loan that I took out with the council when I was an employee. Unfortunately, I was out of work for over two and a half years and couldn't maintain the original loan payments, therefore I had an agreed payment plan with the bailiffs which I have kept to and retained receipts for each payment.

 

A couple of weeks ago, they said the amount being paid was no longer sufficient and asked me to return a completed income/expenditure form to them which I returned last week. I offered them double the amount I'm currently paying.

 

They've decided this isn't enough and have said they're selling the car to go towards the debt and that they'll then contact me after it's sold to revise the payment plan........... which, no disrespect, I won't be paying a penny towards now that they've taken the car. If they wanted a lump sum towards the debt I could have sold the car privately and got an awful lot more for it than they will

[hedgey06]

I honestly don't know PT - I think the Council did obtain a CCJ around two years ago ........ but I'm not sure how much I've paid towards the vehicle to date. However, the bailiffs are demanding a lot more than I owe as the total debt is now a lot more than I originally borrowed. The HCEO first became involved when I originally defaulted on the payments two years ago. At the time, something terrible had happened to a family member and I don't remember what happened except that I managed somehow to get everybody concerned to agree to a payment plan.

[hedgey06]

Thanks PT - all he left me with today is basically a receipt for my car that he's signed and dated, I had to sign it also. It has a writ number on it along with the council's name vs me. It says "the items listed below have been removed in accordance with the above, and will be held for five days prior to being sold. If you wish your goods to be returned, the full amount in cash must be paid to the office prior to the sale. You are also responsible for the collection and return of your goods, and any lawful charge the auctioneer may make."

[hedgey06]

Thanks Benny, I didn't give them the logbook or any other details for the car. He said they could get more at auction for the car if I handed everything over but I'd given up by that point and shut the door on him.

 

I really appreciate all of your responses - I haven't stopped shaking since this happened and I hope there's something I can do instead of feeling as though they have the right to take whatever they want.

[hedgey06]

@ Voxter - allow me to clear up any confusion you appear to have.

 

Local Authorities don't lend employees money to buy cars at a reduced rate of interest as a matter of course. What the majority of them DO is have a preferential loan scheme (usually half a per cent below the banks' loan interest rates) available to essential car users; social workers, community development officers, housing officers, etc. This means that employees who are required to have access to a car to enable them to undertake their duties are able to access the loan scheme and purchase a vehicle promptly. This in turn ensures that their clients (usually vulnerable members of the community) receive the care and support they are entitled to.

 

I hope this clears up any confusion you may have. If you have any advice to offer I would be very grateful as an EX Local Authority employee. If you don't have any advice to offer, at least you are now in possession of FACTS.

[hedgey06]

Thanks for getting back to me PT. I've double checked the form he left me and there isn't a Form No on it anywhere......... there's no CCJ number on it either, just the writ number. I'll have a look through my papers to see when the initial writ was obtained, but I have a feeling it was two years ago.

[hedgey06]

When the original CCJ was awarded was it just for a sum of money or did it allow you to pay by instalments. Did you ever get a chance to defend/counterclaim or make offer of payment when the original paperwork was received.

 

PT

 

I'll check the paperwork that I have, but from memory the original CCJ was for a sum of money....... I managed to negotiate instalments via the council originally, then via the Bailiffs. At the time it happened I was dealing with a bad incident that had happened to a family member so my memory is a bit vague on the details, but I'll try to get the paperwork out now.

[hedgey06]

Are you presently in employment, if not do you claim any benefits, also does anyone within your household suffer from any debilitating illness or disability.

 

PT

 

I started work again part time at the beginning of September and I claim tax credits as a lone parent in addition to my wages. I don't have a debilitating illness or disability, although I've suffered with depression for the past two years and take medication for this.

[hedgey06]

How many children & what age?

 

PT

 

I've got three boys still at home..... the eldest is 16 and has just started college, my youngest two are 11

[hedgey06]

I'll wait to see what you have.

 

PT

 

Ok, I've got very little...... .I've searched through all my paperwork and can only find a couple of letters. When this originally happened it was at an awful time personally as we had a really traumatic event in our family .... I can't go into details on the forum as it was very personal.

 

My ex-husband took the debt on because he knew I couldn't afford to pay it (I was on benefits at the time - income support and tax credits) and he didn't want me to lose the car as the kids all play football and rugby and I use the car to ferry them around to their activites. All I can find is a letter that my ex passed to me where they thank him for sending payments, plus two formal notices that say "I have power under the Writ relating to this High Court Judgement debt as an Enforcement Officer acting under the authority of Andrew Wilson & co, High Court Enforcement Officers to seize your goods up to the value of the judgement, together with all additional charges and interest payable"..........

 

After speaking with the person who signed the letters, it appeared that some of the payments hadn't registered on their side because the writ number wasn't put on the bank transaction - but this was cleared up when my ex husband went into the bank the following day and had the payments traced. I thought that was the end of the matter but then received the form asking for detailed income / expenditure which I sent off to them, then they called this morning and took the car.

[hedgey06]

Thanks for replying again PT.

 

The car is an 06 registration Corsa, I bought it at 12 months old....... I've just checked online and according to Parkers this is what the car is worth:

 

Guide Price

View example

A car's value is directly affected by its mileage and fitted options, anywhere from £100 to £10,000.

Original Price £10,935

Franchised Dealer £3,700

Independent Dealer £3,455

Private Good £3,320

Private Poor £2,340

Part Exchange £2,795

Adjust for mileage and options for an accurate price.

Average mileage 40,000

Options fitted None

.......... it only has around 23,000 miles on the clock so I'm assuming it's worth slightly more than the guide price of 40K miles? The bailiffs are now saying that the debt is nearly 7K..... more than I originally borrowed despite all previous payments. I don't know what the car would fetch at auction, but I'm assuming it would be a lot less than above???

[hedgey06]

It appears to me that the HCEO should have handed your file back to Claimant as under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents you were clearly classed as "vulnerable" and even now may still fall under the same. Unfortunately I don't think we have the time to argue the finer points of this but of course it could be pointed out to your Claimant - it would appear that they knew this themselves but preferred to ignore it.

 

PT

 

The council were fully aware of my situation, and the bailiff who called at my home around 3 weeks ago was also told - he was actually quite nice and apologised for bothering me at home late at night and said that he'd make sure it was sorted out once he received proof that the payments had been received. I've just phoned my ex-husband to make sure that he's honoured the payments and he's promised to call round tomorrow with hard copies of the receipts...... although I know for a fact that he wouldn't lie about this so the payments have definitely been honoured.

 

I'm really not sure why this escalated ....... the debt was being paid as per their arrangements???

[hedgey06]

Thank you so much PT. I've downloaded the N244, I'll get the other forms printed tonight also.

 

If I do a seperate letter to the HCEO with a copy to the council/my local councillor, do I mention the fact that I've taken the N244 to the court also? Or is it best to see what happens at court tomorrow??

 

Many thanks again PT, I really appreciate your support and advice tonight.

[hedgey06]

Thanks again PT, I'll contact them tomorrow when I get back from court.......... hopefully they'll listen to what I have to say. I won't hold my breath though - but at least I'll try.

 

I'll let you know what happens tomorrow, wish me luck.......... and thank you so much for your support tonight. You've helped me to focus instead of collapsing in hysterics, I hope I can report a good outcome tomorrow

[hedgey06]

Well, it's in the courts' hands now....... although I'm not too hopeful of the outcome after what happened yesterday. I managed to get to the court for 3pm, completed the n244 and waited to see the judge - but at 4.15 a member of staff told me that the judge wouldn't look at the case until Monday morning. I tried to plead my case to be heard but they wouldn't budge.

 

There wasn't much room on the form to go into thorough details and time wasn't on my side so I'm crossing my fingers that I managed to put enough information on the form to persuade the judge to grant a stay of execution on the writ. I'll start drafting a letter for the council/local councillor tonight in preparation for Monday's outcome........... I'm not really sure what else I can do now though. I don't think I've never felt so completely powerless - even paying your debts and sticking to an agreement doesn't seem to mean an awful lot anymore

[hedgey06]

Thanks Benny. I'll get in touch with my councillor tonight so that he's aware of the hearing on Monday ......... I've put all my receipts together to prove I was sticking to the agreement, but Monday seems like a lifetime away. I normally dread Monday mornings, but this weekend I can't wait. Thanks for the advice and moral support, I can't tell you how much of a difference it's making right now.

[hedgey06]

Hi Caro, it's nice to see you x

 

PT's given me some great advice, along with Benny also. I'm drafting something to 'pad out' Q10 on the n244 for Monday morning, so hopefully the judge can look at the full facts of the case. Fingers crossed anyway! It's good to know that CAG is still here for advice and support, I'd have given up completely if it wasn't for PT and Benny.

[hedgey06]

Have you any idea of the amount still outstanding on the loan? Maybe an idea to give us a breakdown of the all the bailiff fees as they may have overcharged you. You never know between the bailif fees and outstanding amount what you actually owe coudl be a lot less. All the best for Monday.

 

Hi Surfer, I don't know how much is still outstanding on the original loan but I do intend to find out asap.

 

I've just got home from work and contacted the courts - the judge stayed the writ this morning until the 10th November, at which time I have to attend a hearing. The lady at the court assured me that the paperwork is on it's way to me explaining what's happened and what I need to do next.

 

Apparently, the bailiffs can't take the car to auction as the judge will decide what happens next at the hearing....... I think I've got that right?? It's a better outcome than I was expecting in some ways as I thought the bailiffs would be 'rubber stamped', but hopefully I now get the chance to plead my full case to the judge???

[hedgey06]

Thanks Benny, I do feel better than I did last week

 

I held off on emailingl my councillor last week as I wanted to wait to see what happened today, but I think it's worthwhile if I email him a detailed breakdown of everything that's happened? Best case scenario would be if the debt was passed back to the council so that I could pay 'them' instead of having the bailiffs breathing down my neck..... whether the councillor could help with that though I'm not sure? But regardless, I'll see if there's anything at all he can do to help in the next couple of weeks.

 

I tried phoning the council this morning but couldn't get any sense out of the person I spoke to, so I'll hand deliver a letter to them tonight asking them to give me a full breakdown of what I've paid, what I still owe, etc........ at least then I can see how much of the outstanding amount that the bailiffs are asking for is the loan as opposed to their fees!

 

Would I be able to get legal representation for something like this or would it be really expensive???

[hedgey06]

The woman I spoke to at the court said that the car would stay with the Bailiffs - I think. The bailiff hasn't left me with any breakdown of the costs involved - but I do know that the total debt now outstanding is quite a lot more than I originally borrowed even though I've been making regular payments. I'll need to get a full breakdown off them asap.

 

I'm wondering if I should also honour this month's payment to the bailiffs also? I don't want to withdraw payment as I'd like to prove to the courts that I've made every effort to pay them (which I have)....... think I need to write a full list down of everything I need to do also!

[hedgey06]

Hi again everyone, I thought I'd do a quick update as the court date is this Wednesday and I'm unsure now what the best course of action may be.

 

I had to leave my job last Monday. As I started my last job so early in the morning, I obviously used my car to get there and once my car was gone the only way I could get there on time was by taxi which I just couldn't afford to keep paying every day (buses didn't run early enough to get me to work and the job wasn't flexible hours). I've managed to secure a part time seasonal job that I started today - minimum of 16 hours per week but it's less money (minimum wage) than than the job that I did have as well as being less hours - the main bonus being that it's within walking distance of my home. Unfortunately, the job is only contracted until 31st December so I'll have to try and secure another job for when this one finishes.

 

Because of this, I'm not sure how to approach the case on Wednesday morning. My employment is no longer permanent and if I don't secure another job by the time this one comes to an end I won't have the means to make the payments to the Bailiffs. I was basing my case on my ability to pay (with financial support from my ex) but this may not be possible until I'm in secure employment.

 

Do I turn up on Wednesday and just give up? I feel as though I'm now in a catch 22 situation and I honestly don't know what to do for the best. I needed the car to get to work, without the car I had to pay for taxis, couldn't afford taxi fare so had to find a job closer to home, new job pays a lot less, need to secure a better more permanent job but am now restricted without the car......... can't afford to pay for the car if I don't secure a more permanent job. I also don't have any written info from the bailiffs about how much of the debt is their fees etc.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated even if it means losing the car at this point. Thanks in advance if possible.

[hedgey06]

Sorry, just another quickie........ I just checked the Bailiffs website and found a link to their 'auctioneers' - they sell everything from their own 'depot'. My car is on their catalogue list already - does this mean they're expecting a good outcome for themselves in court on Wednesday? Apologies for despondency - not really sure what to do now.

[hedgey06]

Hi Pt, and thanks for your reasurrance

 

I don't understand legal jargon etc, so the document that I've typed out is kind of 'in my own words' and is a potted history of what's happened since this saga began. All I can hope is that the judge allows me to read this as it is and is sympathetic with some of the contents but can also see that I'm not trying to 'shirk' my responsibilities either.

 

My ex husband has given me photocopies of the receipts along with a letter in which he clearly states the communication that he had with the bailiffs on my behalf (paying the debt on my behalf whilst I was too ill and financially unable to deal with my debts, meeting the monthly payments, offering to increase the payment, etc). Hopefully this will show the judge that the bailiffs took the car even though they were receiving payments and had been promised additional payments in the future.

 

Fingers crossed! I'm nervous as hell ...... I keep going over and over the info I've got hoping that it's enough! Thank you so much again for your support, I'll post an update tomorrow when I get home.

 

Hedgey