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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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British credit Trust and Time Order Question

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Hi guys just a quick question regarding time orders, we are in the process of being threatened by BCT and their solicitors to take possession of our vehicle. However being as its got to the Termination Notice stage I am going to ask the court to grant a time order before BCT even get anywhere near a court.


What form do I need to issue to the court is it an N1 or a N440, I am thinking its an N440 because its a secured loan on a vechicle or is the N440 just for time orders on residental premises?


Any help you can give guys would be great.

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This is saying it is an N244

Debt Factsheets - Time Orders


but that form looks like you may use it if it if there is an ongoing claim ? i would be tempted to used to N440. it looks to be more the form for the time order, rather than a generl order x

Any advice I give, is given with the best intention of helping. I am not legally trained, so it is probably best to just ignore me;)

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I think the N1 is a general form for anything, where as the N440 asks specific information relating to default notices, termination notices etc.


Good luck

Any advice I give, is given with the best intention of helping. I am not legally trained, so it is probably best to just ignore me;)

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Its a regulated HP agreement under CCA 1974. I have paid more than a third in fact have paid more than half but got into difficulty last year when husband lost his job through redundancy, however he found work 4 months later in April 2009 and has been employed ever since but both myself and husband were involved in a serious car accident in March 2010 and things have took a turn for the worse really as my husband has been and remains on the sick.


We were issued a termination notice in May 2010 and things have moved on since we told BCT they wern't getting the car back without a court order and yesterday we got a letter from their solicitors Blake Lapthorn basicly using bullying tactics in telling us to surrender the vehicle or court action will commence, surrendering the vehicle isn't an option as we have a son with a serious heart defect and isn't suited well to public transport, and more recently due to our car accident my husband has been left with a very serious back injury and can't get about without a car.


At the moment we can afford to make some payment roughly 3 quarters of the monthly amounts but not much more, we have tried negotiating with BCT but they are having none of it and they now just want the car. I have been pondering should I let them take me to court and get a Time Order at that stage or shall I get the Time Order now and stop them in their tracks.


However I am tempted before I decide what to do is to e-mail the solicitors in a last ditch attempt to resolve before court action as I have to at least try to keep the matter out of court which I'm sure the courts will lookup on favourably.

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Firstly don't be frightened by these bullies! There is nothing they can do to you, they cannot force you to voluntarily surrender your car.

Whichever way you choose to go you do need to be corresponding with them in writing and sending everything recorded delivery.

BCT have a reputation for unlawful repossession and have been taken to court previously for this.

You are well within your rights to apply for a time order before they start proceedings but you can also apply for one as a result of their application for return of the car. The only difference would be the cost, but if you are on a low income or certain benefits you would be exempt from court fees anyway.

Have you made any payments since receiving a default or termination??

Have you got any proof of their refusal to accept reduced payments?

You can only make an application if they have already refused to accept your proposals. I believe it to be an N1 that would need if you wanted to make the application before court proceedings.

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Thanks for posting wannabedebtfreesoon, I'm certainly not frightened by these people as I intend to fight them with every breath in my body.


I'm just pondering how to fight them, should I let them bring the fight to me or take it to them? I'm of the veiw the claimant always seems to enjoy a higher level of respect in the court system, and that is my main fear.


I have evidence stacked in my favour, I have tried negotiating with BCT, I have made offers only to be declined, they have applied unfair charges to the account. My only concern is I am unable to pay the full monthly amount or anything towards the arrears hence the reason for making an application for an interim time order for the terminated agreement to be varied and to stop interest.


I have checked and it is the form N440 in my case if I wish for a time order before they commence action or otherwise its an N11M for a time order if they make a claim first.


I'm thinking of getting in there first as because they have terminated the agreement I can go straight for a time order but i'm thinking of e-mailing their solicitors with my proposal monday with a time limit for reply no later than close of business tuesday and enter the application on wednesday if I get no reply.


Check here Time Order ? a viable solution when you need more time for loan repayment

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I believe the N440 and N11M forms are for loans secured on your home so would be unsuitable for a HP or Conditional Sale agreement.

I can't seem to get on to the HMCS website at the mo but I'm sure it would be N1 for before and N244 after.

If you've paid anything at all since your default and terminations were issued they will have to reissue them both as they will now be invalid due to sums overstated.

Personally I would recommend writing a letter outlining your proposals and indicating that if they are not accepted you will have no option but to apply for a time order. Also I would think 14 days for a response would be more reasonable. The court makes a big deal out of showing reasonable behaviour and it only counts in your favour if you can prove you have done everything in your power to negotiate and court is your very last resort.

The last thing I would want would be to see your application refused on the grounds of not giving reasonable time to negotiate a reduction :(

Don't forget that you are in a very strong bargaining position right now. It's all about the money for them and if you end up being granted a time order the chances are interest will be frozen and they will get much less money.

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  • 1 month later...

Right just to update you all, hubby was in court on Thursday gone, they were going for outright possession of the vehicle which didn't happen, however the judge didn't grant the time order hubby was looking for straight away, the case has been adjourned.


the judge was concerned by granting a time order based on what could be paid would extend the terminated agreement by 19 months, which the judge said was beyond the powers of the court (not sure about that, as i'm sure the court can use their discretion to extend to whatever is reasonable, I need a little advice on that).



However the judge was interested in hubbys personal injury claim as this could be used to keep the time order within the time limits of the agreement, to be fair hubby was going to use part of his settlement anyway from his P.I. claim to settle the outstanding finance anyway,



he made reference to the Southern & District Finance plc v Barnes case and this would be the only way hubby would be allowed to keep the car,



he threw hubby a lifeline really and to be honest he was a fair judge as the other sides solictor just wanted the car and nothing less so for now its all even again and believe hubby holds the upper hand as liability for his PI claim has been made in full which is what the judge wanted to hear.


Anyone got any thoughts.



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  • 2 years later...

Hi all I just need a bit of advice.

2 years ago I got behind with our car loan repayments, we went through a bad patch husband was nearly killed in a car accident & our son has a very serious heart condition.

Upon attending court the judge suspended the repossession on the basis we paid xxx amount each month until the balance was cleared.

Now our problem,

our son recently had to go into hospital for a surgical procedure on his heart, this resulted in me taking a considerable amount of time off from work.

Because of the lost income we have got behind by 2 months on our arrangement.

My question is

does the lender have to return to the court again to enforce the possession order, or can they just come and collect the vehicle?

As my understanding is they have to return to court to enforce and a court bailiff carries out the repossession, which gives me time to suspend the possession again, is this correct?

To be fair we have in two years reduced the balance by more than half from £9000 to under £4000, our intentions are to clear the balance.

All we are asking for is the two missed months just be added onto the end, is that an unreasonable request?

And how would that argument prop up in court as last time the judge did not want to repossess as the vehicle is registered disabled.

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If there is a suspended possession order on the vehicle the lender can apply to the court for a warrant to enforce possession whioch will involve a bailiff visiting to collect the vehicle (you should be advised in writing beforehand) - you would then need to apply to the court for a hearing to have the repossession stopped.

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Just as I thought, I have no problem with attending court as I've just been there with our mortgage within the last 2 weeks and we got that sorted.


However we just keep getting letters from the client's solicitors that they are just coming for the car, we have wrote to them and have now continued payments but its like water off a ducks back to them.


Am I right in thinking that if they do what they say they are going to do without a court order and bailiff enforcement, I could technically request back all the monies paid as so far?

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The only person who can take your car is a court bailiff with a copy of the warrant in his hand. Write back to the solicitors telling them you have taken advice and understand that only a court bailiff can repossess your car therefore you will not be handing the car over to any of their appointed agents. Also advise them you will be taking the case back to court to have the warrant further suspended. Send it by special next day delivery so they get the message as fast as possible.

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums



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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Well they haven't been yet, we have moved the car to my mom's drive who only lives 2 houses away.

She has 3 padlock able bollards blocking the entrance to the drive and also a concrete anchor built into the drive which we have chained to the cars rear axle with a heavy duty chain

my mom normally uses the anchor for her caravan but as the season is over she has had it moved to sheltered storage for the winter

. If they want the car they are going to have to cause some considerable damage to remove it.

The drive is also monitored by CCTV.

We have sent a letter special delivery today, outlining our proposals,

we will just have to see what comes back, but in the mean time we have and are going to just pay what we have proposed which was the same amount set out in the last court order plus extra to cover the missing months whether they like it or not.

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Did you tell them in the letter that you were aware of your rights i.e. only a court bailiff can repossess the vehicle and not any agent appointed by them ?

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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums



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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Yes ell-enn we placed all that in the letter, but I suppose it probably wouldn't stop them trying it on hence the vehicle being moved to my moms drive.

We've put it that if they want the car because what we've offered isn't good enough for them, then back to court we go because I am not accepting any of their ploys and their attempts to play mind games with me,

I've told them also I'm coming after them for £700 in late payment fees which will also reduce the balance further.

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They do not need to instruct a bailiff to seize the car, though they can if they want.

Now that they have an order for delivery, they can simply take the car themselves, just like they could if you had paid less than a third and didn't need a court order.

The vast majority of finance companies do not bother getting a warrant of delivery, they just recover the vehicle themselves.

What you need to do is to make an application to the court to vary the terms of suspension; if successful then they would be prevented from taking the vehicle for as long as you meet the new terms of suspension.

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