Doryphor's Wife V Lloyds TSB

[doryphor]

Hi,

 

After successfully claiming against Halifax, my wife and I are now going after the rest, a couple per week (there are 8 to do!). We're starting with Lloyds TSB being a potentially high amount.

 

We handed the SAR at the branch today, so we'll give them two days to receive it at head office, such that the 40 days is up on October 12th.

 

We didn't need to do the SAR with the Halifax, since we had all statements anyway, so this bit is new to me!

 

Dory

[doryphor]

Received statements from Lloyds. Remarkably, they actually sent details of manual intervention, which I thought was a surprise!

They sent photocopies of statements up to 2001, but then just a list of charges and interest until the present. What that means is that I don't have a balance for each day to work out the proportion of the interest charges which could conceivably be as a result of the unlawful charges.

Do I simply leave the interest off? It wouldn't be a huge amount, but I'm not sure how else to include it. The overdraft was minimal - £100 or £200 maybe.

The total charges is £890. Plus I'll be claiming for the contractual rate of interest, which as far as i can gather from their website is 18.4%, which makes interest on those charges £578.09 - total claim of £1468.09.

Any help would be appreciated. Believe me, I've scoured the contractual rates threads (and they're looooong!), so I'm fairly confident about that bit. It's where, and how, if at all, I put the interest charges on the account already on the schedule.

 

Cheers,

 

Doryphor

[doryphor]

After more reading - a lot more lol - I amended my LBA to include the UNauthorised contractual rate, but after a lot MORE reading read that where the authorised rate and the unauthorised rate differ, it may be seen in a poor light by the court to claim at the unauthorised rate - the reason being that it is more likely the bank would have unduly enriched itself by placing the money obtained from me by re-lending it at an authorised rate than an unauthorised rate. Thus, when I submitted my N1 form I reduced the contractual rate to the authorised rate.

 

Will this be a huge problem? The way I see it is that I have reduced the overall amount, not increased it, so if anything it should be seen favourably by the courts, should it go that far.

[doryphor]

Interesting, this. Lloyds have until 4pm tomorrow to acknowledge service. Otherwise I assume, I win by default and enter judgment.

 

Has anyone else won by default against Lloyds TSB, and if so, does this technically mean they have a County Court Judgment (i.e., a CCJ) entered against them? And does that mean they will find it hard to obtain credit in the future? lol

[doryphor]

URGENT!

 

After giving Lloyds extra time, they have bypassed acknowledging the claim, and simply entered a defence. We've received the allocation questionnaire, and I have a few questions (although I have read the guide as well).

 

1. I have been dealing with this on behalf of my wife, being more knowledgeable with this site, and the ins and outs of the situation. It asks about witnesses, and in the guide says to put your own name down. (I.e., my wife's name.) Am I able to put my name down and speak on her behalf at the hearing, should there be one?

 

2. Any suggestions on the 'Proposed directions' bit as to what to put down and attach there?

 

many thanks.

 

Doryphor

[bill-k]

Has anyone else won by default against Lloyds TSB, and if so, does this technically mean they have a County Court Judgment (i.e., a CCJ) entered against them? And does that mean they will find it hard to obtain credit in the future? lol

 

ROTFL

1. I have been dealing with this on behalf of my wife, being more knowledgeable with this site, and the ins and outs of the situation. It asks about witnesses, and in the guide says to put your own name down. (I.e., my wife's name.) Am I able to put my name down and speak on her behalf at the hearing, should there be one?

 

Not had pleasure of AQ myself, yet, so can't answer q2. but if this is a normal joint a/c with either of you able to sign stuff, then you should be able to do it in your name, Dory. If you're not actually a signatory to it, then I think you might still be able to act alone on it, provided the good Mrs D signs a statement to that effect (not sure for sure on that).

 

Otherwise, you might have to act as her representative in court. In that case, she has to sign stuff, I believe, and will have to attend court, but not obliged to do or say anything - simply to oversee your handling of her affairs.

 

I'm expecting to do this soon for a rellie, so I'll post if I get any more info.

[doryphor]

Not that it'll go to court (touch wood, lol), but I'll look into what I need to do - not sure that Mrs D will be happy about talking in court! She tends to get... shall we say... tempestuous when they constantly call us at home, so meeting a representative of the company face to face might have combustible results!!

[bill-k]

Good for her, Dory !!

If you rep. her in court then I'm sure she will not have to say anything, but can probably interject if need be (eg if you said something that she objected to or knew was incorrect, etc.)

However, as I think you imply, the right of speech should perhaps be tempered with a bag of gobstoppers !!

[Guest bong]

morning doryphor:)

 

Its the N150?

 

put your wife down as the witness - I believe you are not a witness but her lay representative. you will still be able to speak on her behalf in court but she has to be there also and give consent, unless the court has given permission for her not to be there.

 

under proposed directions tick NO.

 

you will be asking for standard disclosure at H.

 

sorry folks have just seen your replies while I was typing mine.

[Guest bong]

anything interesting in the defence dory?

[bill-k]

Thanks Bong - clearer than mine !!

 

Dory - if you do put your wife down, do it humanely.

[Guest bong]

Dory - if you do put your wife down, do it humanely.

[doryphor]

Thanks for the replies guys (and gals heh)

 

From another post there are two defences, the simpler of which has 9 main points - as does this. Points include (I have no scanner lol):

 

there is no breach of contract, the charges are fair and reasonable and it is denied they are unlawful, the charges are for banking services, etc. Seems fairly standard from what I've read.

 

It is the N150 form, so I'll just put my wife's name as witness, tick no to proposed directions, and is the following (taken from the AQ guide) acceptable in part H:

 

'I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track. This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

 

However, the continuing problem is (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers) that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

 

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. I believe this would bring a rapid end to this litigation.'

 

Hope this is ok, cos I really want to get this to the court today, asap...

 

Those January sales are looking more and more enticing - aren't sofas cheaper in january? lol!!

[doryphor]

Thanks Bong - clearer than mine !!

 

Dory - if you do put your wife down, do it humanely.

 

lmao!!

[Guest bong]

fine but also put "I believe the case will last no longer than one hour." (unless Mrs D gets to speak, in which case reserve the court room for a morning)

[doryphor]

fine but also put "I believe the case will last no longer than one hour." (unless Mrs D gets to speak, in which case reserve the court room for a morning)

 

 

Is that for part H? Cos I've already put 1 hour in part E, re estimated length of final hearing...

 

And, if she speaks, they'll need the whole day heh heh

[Guest bong]

ok if you've already got it at E then ignore what I said.

[doryphor]

Groovy. I think we're all set to fill in and take to the courts. Thanks for the help!

[doryphor]

witnesses to which facts? Do I need to specify?

[Guest bong]

LOL!! I wondered why you hadn't asked that before!

 

put something like the facts set out in the particulars of claim.

[doryphor]

Ah, makes sense - cheers! Glad you guys are online!!

[doryphor]

Had a 'General Form of Judgment or Order' through today.

 

It states:

Before District Judge Hendicott at Cardiff County Court.

Upon the Court's own motion. The Court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object to the order, you must make an application to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it.

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. Directions will be given in this case by the Designated Civil Judge, His Honour Judge G Hickinbottom, on ....

 

2. The parties may appear in person or make written representations as to how the case should proceed provided a copy of the representations is sent to the Court and the other side at least 7 working days prior to the hearing.

 

So.. question is, what exactly does this mean? I've heard of some people attending a hearing, but this seems different. The use of the 'Judgment' in the Form title confuses me as well. Can anyone shed some light on this? In the meantime, I'll have a further browse around here as well.

 

Thanks.

[doryphor]

Just thought I'd put this to the top of the pile again, see if anyone missed it...! Cheers

[GaryH]

Hi doryphor,

 

This is standard for all South Wales claims. The Cardiff court rounds them all up and bulk lists them on the same time on the same day - obviously safe in the knowledge that the vast majority (if not all) of them will be settled beforehand.

 

Its a prelim hearing, rather than a final hearing, so this will save you a lot of work with regards to preparation as you don't need a court bundle, etc. You have been given the option of either attending on the day, or writing representations to the judge. Which would you prefer? Most prefer to write instead, which is fine.

 

If you want to write, then you should propose directions to the judge with a short covering letter. Here's one I did for a couple of claimants from the last batch of hearings, modded to include the new draft direction order;

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

YOU v LLOYDS BANK PLC

In the ***** COUNTY COURT

CLAIM No:*******

 

I, the Claimant, refer to the claim as detailed above and specifically the Preliminary hearing scheduled for **/**/**.

 

I apologise to the honourable court for my non-attendance at this hearing, which is due to... (add reason). As such, pursuant to the order made by district judge ****** on **/**/**, I wish to make my written representations as to how this claim should proceed.

 

If the court is in agreement, the Claimant respectfully suggests that directions could be made as per the attached draft order.

 

If ordered, the Claimant believes these directions will allow the overriding objective's to be furthered in that they will fully identify the most fundemental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed so that this claim may proceed justly and expediously.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true cost incurred by the Defendent as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendent cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the UTCCR 1999 and common law principles establised since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendents charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is denied), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that the claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

A copy of this letter and draft directions has also been sent to the Defendent.

 

 

Yours faithfully

Then attach the draft order;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires.html#post482191

[doryphor]

That's perfect - it puts out what I need to say in a professional manner, and it also reassures me that things are progressing normally, rather than some unique event for me lol! my wife is getting increasingly frustrated by Lloyds' stalling tactics. I'm more reassured in that eventually we'll get something, but they do seem to like taking it to the eleventh hour!