Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • god they've got at you haven't they. told you all the usual utter BS. a CCJ vanishes from your credit file on it's 6th B'Day regardless to being paid off or not or paying or not. same with any debt with a registered defaulted date - it vanishes from your file on the DN's 6th B'day regardless. creditfix are Knightsbridge, (they renamed) there are 100's of threads here on Knightsbridge, if i remember rightly 2 of the directors of a certain very big IVA provider were struck off for embezzling £1m's out of debtors. pers i'd stop paying now.  end of . just ignore them all. 99% of your debts are to utterly powerless DCA's and probably were never owed in the first place only goes to firm up my belief from post one..you got had blind. its very easy to deal with the debts even those with CCJ's. can you copy and paste what you credit file says regarding the IVA please?   
    • The airline says it is investigating reports that customers can view other passengers' personal information.View the full article
    • They are finding new ways to cut back on household spending as China’s economy loses steam.View the full article
    • Sorry I meant credit fix - I really wish I'd known this before - kicking myself right now  If they come back to me asking for more money I'll cancel it and start trying to deal with the debt myself let's see what they say  Feeling tempted to cancel it now but scared that some of the debts will do more CCJ's on me and I'll have to wait 6 years again.  2 of the CCJ come of this year and then I'll only have the iva in credit file - effectively if I'd have not took out the iva in 2021 I'd have clear score by now - but then again would I because I would have been hounded the last 3 years, as bad as it is it's saves me lots of headaches whilst my debt was still within the 6 year mark.  I think most of them are near there but in all honesty no point chasing them if I do cancel iva I'd jjst wait for the ones who contact me and then start the relevant letter process on them.  Of over 6 years easy if not still possible to write off. My true victory would be having the iva wiped off my credit file as mis sold or something that way I Don't have to wait till 2027 Other option is to fight back and ask for them to offer the creditors to accept payments so far and use the following method    Will your IVA firm agree to complete your IVA on the basic of funds paid to date? The Guidance lists a lot of factors to be considered in deciding whether a settlement on the basis of funds paid to date should be proposed. You should read the list. But that may not give you any feel for whether they apply to you or not. The following are my thoughts on when an IVA should be treated as settled, not failed. They assume that you have £75 or less to pay a month: if you would currently qualify for a Debt Relief Order, then your IVA should be settled now  There is no point in making your IVA fail and you have to apply for a DRO – it will not generate another penny for your creditors. If you are renting and owe less than £50,000, check the DRO criteria now and talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether you qualify. You may have been told at the start of your IVA that you aren’t eligible – still check now as the DRO criteria have changed, your situation has got worse, and some people were given incorrect information about DROs at the start. if you have no assets that would be realised in bankruptcy (eg a house with equity, car worth over £2000), then your IVA should be settled now Same as (1), there is no point in making you apply for bankruptcy after your IVA fails. if your only asset is a car that is worth less than £8000, then your IVA should be settled now A car that is worth say £5000 would normally be sold in bankruptcy and you would be given a small amount to buy a cheaper car. But your creditors would not get any benefit from this as the Insolvency Service takes the first £8000 raised to cover its own costs. if you have significant assets, the closer you are to the end of the IVA, the less reasonable it is to fail it If you have been paying your IVA for 4 years, you have done your best over a long period. It isn’t your fault you can no longer continue. The fact you may have had equity to release isn’t relevant as that simply isn’t going to be possible. if your situation will clearly improve soon, then it’s unlikely your IVA will be settled I mean real improvements, not hoping that prices fall. If I can get them to accept payment to date or threaten with cancellation hopefully they may accept it -  Other option is to try and borrow money and pay make a full and final offer  Or I can just ignore and hope for the best which I'm very tempted to do especially if they respond to my review with bullying tactics despite me being skint as a fart with no mortgage as renting  It's so stressful but I've just checked the iva agreement from 2021 and it's Cabot 2 accounts Lowell about 5 accounts and then lots of repeats of the same debt with for example zopa and Cabot same amount listed twice -  also loyyds banks but I'm sure that's older than 6 years and not on credit file anyway  If I can somehow remove the iva from my credit file I'd be happy 
    • India has one of the world's fastest growing economies but the benefits are yet to fully reach the poorest.View the full article
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Claiming Back Mortgage Charges. Why not?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4753 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

There seems to be no end of people trying to claim back unlawful mortgage fees via the FOS route, but a distinct lack of those going down the court route - and I don't understand why.

 

I have put in a county court claim against my mortgage company for £3000 worth of charges. I fully expect to be refunded.

 

Their initial position was, "Our charges are fair, we aren't paying you anything," etc.

 

Now it's gone to court they have alraedy offered me £1000 back, ('without prejudice' offer, of course).

 

So, simply by putting in a simple N1 claim, I have got £1000 back. It took a few hours work and a fee of around £100. This is not difficult. So why is no-one doing it!?!?

 

Anyway, I am not accepting their offer. I want this to get to court. I want the opportunity to ask them how they work out their charges.

 

When they refuse I will be asking for a court order that insists they reveal their true costs.

 

Of course, the mortgage company won't allow the case to progress and will no doubt refund the full amount, with interest that is accruing daily, because they know they're in the wrong.

 

BAE:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks, Letsdothis,

 

I've received the defence now, what a load of nonsense!!

 

My next move will be to contact their solicitors and try to negotiate a settlement. I will be asking for the full amount of charges barring the court interest. This will show my good faith.

 

If they don't accept it, then the court will decide.

 

BAE :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I've received the allocation questionnaire and I have to complete it before 18th July. I haven't contacted their solicitors to date to negotiate a settlement - next week I think I will give them one chance to settle before it goes to the court stage.

 

If they do not agree to my terms then I will be asking for a court order when I file the AQ. The order will ask that they provide details of the charging structure involved in arrears and dd charges. (And we all know they won't do that!)

 

If I can get that order I think I will be pretty much home and dry.

 

BAE :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have now received a second offer to settle - the amount has risen by £200.

 

Hence, I am now at the stage of either carrying on negotiating for the best deal for settlement or letting the court process decide. It is obvious they don't want to attend or defend - but they could be pig headed and not settle at what I ask.

 

I have a figure in my mind that I will settle at. If that is not accepted, it is going to court.

 

BAE :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done for taking them on, I'll be very interested to see how far they will go - hopefully they will settle in full at the eleventh hour. Good luck:)

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Ellen,

 

I've started this thread to show just how simple it is to be successful in reclaiming mortgage charges through the courts, and to highlight the fact that these mortgage companies really don't want to end up in court with a verdict against them.

 

Unfortunately, most people seem to accept being fobbed off by their mortgage company with a tiny goodwill gesture or a stern letter to say categorically they will not be paying any charges back.

 

My mortgage company, (who will remain anonymous for the time being), said exactly that when I made the initial complaint - "We do not accept your basis for refund of charges, blah, blah, blah", then they immediately offer me a grand just because it's gone to court!

 

Making a claim is certainly not rocket science - I cobbled together a decent Particulars of Claim statement in a few hours, by simply gathering all the info available on this site.

 

The fact is these companies will only respond to a court claim, simple as . . .

 

BAE :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've now negotiated with the defendant's solicitors and received a further increase on what they will settle at. This is their third offer. I'm happy with the figure so will be discontinuing the claim as soon as the cheque is cleared.

 

I agree with Ellen, in that I think they would settle at the full amount just before they had to attend court. But their offer is near enough to my original claim that it makes sense to accept and avoid any further hassles.

 

BAE:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done.

 

This site has been great, but got a bit dis heartened as I seemed to be getting nowhere, however, I have restored faith and you are absolutely right, I am proceeding to the courts, surely I have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

Thanks for your advice, this has spurred me on :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Blossomandebony,

 

I did this against the Abbey over two years ago, Abbey couldn't wait to settle in full before the court date, their 'goons' DLA Piper made all the threats about a counterclaim for £5,000 plus their costs prior - all a lot of hot air.

 

Personally, very satisfying! :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Delcarik,

 

Yes, I did ask for my court fees back - the original claim cost approx £100, then the Allocation questionnaire fee cost £35. At the time you do think, "Is it worth paying?" and I would say 100% yes every time! Once the money's paid, the ball is in motion, so to speak, and you just wait for the fireworks . . .

 

Yes, the fees were included in our negotiations, (which were good natured phone coversations between me and their solicitor). In the end, we came to a figure we both agreed on, but it did take 2 or 3 letters and several conversations.

 

As soon as their solicitor became involved I got the impression that they wanted to settle and avoid court, the rest is history. . .

 

BAE :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Blossomandebony,

 

I did this against the Abbey over two years ago, Abbey couldn't wait to settle in full before the court date, their 'goons' DLA Piper made all the threats about a counterclaim for £5,000 plus their costs prior - all a lot of hot air.

 

Personally, very satisfying! :D

 

That's great to hear, Helford, well done!

 

I'm sure Delcarik will be pleased to hear others talk of their successes too. There is definitely a need for people to come forward with their success stories in claiming against mortgage companies to reassure those who have not yet made that leap into claiming through the courts.

 

Cheers, BAE :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My mortgage company, (who will remain anonymous for the time being), said

 

Any chance of saying which company now its all over?

 

The fees you refer to, are these the monthly arrears fees?

 

Glad you got the result you hoped for :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Any chance of saying which company now its all over?

 

The fees you refer to, are these the monthly arrears fees?

 

Glad you got the result you hoped for :D

 

Hi and thanks,

 

I'm waiting for the cheque to come through first. I'm not sure whether they will try to attach a proviso about not revealing the deal to third parties. I'll post details as soon as I know.

 

The charges I am being returned are monthly arrears admin fees and returned direct debit fees.

 

BAE:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Dear Blossom

Great to hear of your success I am in the middle of fighting with SPML and had my claim put on hold because of the OFT V Abbey battle. I wrote to SPML saying that i was now going to re instate the claim and wondered if they would like to settle ( since they had already tried to settle earlier!) SPML solicitors have written back saying ya boo sucks OFT lost their case so take a running jump on any claim. Can I ask what templates you used or can you give me any advice as to what I should write back to their solicitors. I take it that the OFTv Abbey ruling ( which they kindly enclosed a copy of!) was purely a ruling with the banks and does not have any affect on claims for late charges etc with a Mortgage company Does any one have any wording that i cold borrow to go back to their solicitors with? I have no mortgage with SPML so am not running any risk . Grateful for any help on this one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, KGF,

 

I couldn't find a template for specific mortgages charges so I cobbled one together using various ideas from successful threads etc. I could post it up if you like. To be honest I didn't sweat too much on the claim form because I knew they would settle - it was a fairly simple process.

 

You can already see the the total incompetency of SPML's solicitors in the fact they are trying to use an unrelated case to warn you off! I would suggets you use their pathetic tactics against them as part of your case, and also think about a complaint to the regulatory servicesonce you have got your money back.

 

BAE :smile:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Blossom

 

Many thanks for this. I pretty much followed your advice and sent the letter detailed below

 

 

To SPML Solicitors

 

Thank you for your letter dated 1st September 2010 and refer to the above matter.

 

I would like to respectfully point out that my claim is in respect of Charges applied to my mortgage account. My claim is not concerning the recovery of overdraft charges on a current bank account. This claim is therefore not effected by the outcome to the OFT test case and will be allowed to proceed to its natural conclusion through the courts.

 

Mortgage charges differ to current account overdraft charges, insofar as there is a clear breach of contract. Under the terms of my mortgage I was required to make my payment by a specified date. In breach of this term I made my payments late and in consequence of this the Defendant applied charges to my account. There is thus no question of law regarding whether the charges are capable of amounting to a penalty, it is solely an issue of fact as to whether the level of charge is in fact a penalty.

 

Furthermore as there is a clear breach of contract there is no question about whether or not the UTCCR applies as it has been held to apply to default provisions in Director General Fair Trading V First National Bank plc [2002] 1 All ER 97.

 

In the case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract as oppose to a charge which represents a penalty. This law was confirmed and upheld in Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79. A charge will be held to be a penalty if the sum stipulated for is extravagant and unconscionable in amount in comparison to the greatest loss that could conceivably be proved to have followed from the breach. A penalty clause is void in its entirety and unenforceable.

 

In addition SPML’s charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). Our account falls within the ambit of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as we are consumers. The SPML charges constitute an unfair penalty under Schedule 2 of the said Regulations which provide an indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair. Under paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 this specifically includes terms which have the object of requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation. We would vigorously contend that this is the position regarding the fee of £XXXX which your client deemed fit to apply to our account.

 

I would like to bring your attention to the following statement by The Office of Fair Trading:

 

"A term in a mortgage agreement which requires the borrower to pay more for breaching the contract terms than actual costs and losses caused to the lender by the breach (or a genuine pre-estimate of that) is likely to be regarded as an unfair penalty and to be unenforceable both at common law and (in a consumer mortgage) under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations.

 

We believe that the charges SPML have levied of £XXXX far exceed any true cost to themselves as a result of our breaches and any genuine pre-estimate you could conceivably reach. If you disagree, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which your clients have been put to as a result of our breaches, in order to reassure us that their charges really do reflect their costs.

 

We note that you make no reference to the findings of the FSA against Kensington Mortgages regarding late payment charges etc and the course of action that Kensington are now having to comply with i.e. refund and compensate their clients.

 

As you can see from the above I have carefully considered your letter and put you on notice that if you are unwilling to settle in the amount of at least £XXXX or to supply the breakdown of costs referred to in my previous paragraph, then we will apply to the Court to have our action continue against your client. You should note that the case has already passed the Allocation Questionnaire stage and will go straight to a hearing.

You should also note that I too reserve the right to refer this letter to the Judge on the issue of costs, should the need so arise.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within 7 days.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

I think I have the right tack but wondered if I had made any glaring errors. I am pretty sure they will send another fob off letter until I reinstate the court action. If I have to do that since it has been stayed since 2007 can I still add interest up until the present?

Thanks for the advice so far

KGF

Link to post
Share on other sites

Claiming Back Mortgage Charges. Why not?

 

 

A VERY STRONG WORD OF CAUTION ABOUT THIS.

 

 

Why not indeed... It's been tried, and in the odd case has even succeeded. Well done to B&E, by the way.

 

HOWEVER... Before anyone engages down that path, make sure you have read your T&Cs VERY carefully.

 

Why, you may well ask?

 

Well, because MOST mortgages will contain a term which says that YOU agree to pay THEIR legal costs, even when , and I am going to really stress this: the action is undertaken by you against them. You have basically agreed to cover their legal costs for ANY legal matter that relates to your mortgage.

 

What happened in the early giddy days of CAG is that this got missed, until some people got bitten really hard and either had to discontinue hurriedly, or even had to settle for a portion of the costs before discontinuing, because any refund of charges was minimal compared to the mortgage company's legal costs.

 

That's why CAG changed its stance on the mortgage charges being reclaimable, because as a site, they couldn't possibly encourage people to dive head first when they knew by experience that most people would just follow blindly the templates without actually having an airtight case or knowing what the implications could be.

 

In conclusion: Yes, the charges ARE reclaimable, no doubt about that, but before you go down that path, make 100% sure that it won't end up costing you more in your mortgage company's legal costs than what you'd get back in charges!!! :-(

 

 

Edit: Here's the original post from when things started going pear-shaped. It's a must-read for anyone intending to go after their mortgage charges.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hio Bookworm. yes Excellent advice and indeed it does put a bit of fear into me! No doubt SPML will use this as they are such twisters. Interestingly enough SPML did not send me their T&C's when I served them with a SAR. I do wonder however if I am not an SPML customer( and have not been since 09/05) whether I am still bound by their T&C's and therefore would this clause apply? Thanks for the warning anyway. cheers KGF

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well yes, you would be bound by them since they applied (if relevant) over the period for which you would be reclaiming. You can't have it both ways, I'm afraid, lol. I do know some people reclaimed from SPML (look for 2006 threads), but the details are now hazy in my memory, sorry.

 

Edit: Feb 2007 for when it all went tits up, check threads by gizmo111, or just do a search for SPML, and have a good read.

Edited by Bookworm
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...