Welcome Credit Agreement - Manipulated?!?

[citizenB]

When the Insurance was cancelled, I would have thought that a new agreement was required to be drawn up minus all references to the Insurance.

 

You are claiming (I think) that an agreement has been provided to you on which the signature alleged to be yours, is questionable ?

 

What was to be the purpose of the letter Post was drafting for you ? Sorry if that question seems dense to you.. but I dont quite understand what is going on.

[citizenB]

No, I hadnt looked at the agreement.. will go and do so now.

[citizenB]

I have to admit, that this type of agreement is not within my knowledge. I dont understand what you are meaning by "cobbled" together.

 

Were your name and address on the document. I am not sure what the consequences of there not being an agreement number on the paperwork means unless other details are radically incorrect as well.

 

Are you saying that the terms and conditions were not or could not be part of the original document. Did you ever receive a copy of the original document by which you can confirm without proof that they are two unconnected pages ?

 

What does concern me is that, if radical changes are made to an agreement as in this case the removal of the insurance. Then I would have thought a new agreement would have been drawn up, as I already said. It changes the whole agreement and you would need protection should as has happened.. litigation happened.

 

Plus of course you are claiming that the signature isnt yours. You would need to hire an expert witness to back up your claim if this were to end up in court.

 

The qoute below was taken from your first post. You say the agreement was started in November 2008.. then later on that you sent a CCA request in April 2008 ? do you mean April 2009 ?

 

 

 

I took a personal loan with Welcome Finance on 5th November 2008 which included Personal Accident & Payment Protection Insurance. I then decided to cancel the Insurances within the cooling off period.

 

Welcome Finance cancelled the Insurance and informed me of my new monthly payment. No revised credit agreement was sent to me nor did i sign a revised agreement.

 

I got behind with my monthly payments and Welcome started to harass me so I sent a CCA request to them on 8th April 2008.

 

The only thing I can suggest you do is write to Welcome ,advising that you have serious doubts about the authenticity of the paperwork they have provided you with and until such times as they provide you with an accurate copy of the original then you consider the account to be in dispute.

 

If at such times legal action is commenced, then you will be entitled under CPR31.15 to ask to inspect the original document. I would think as this account is so new, then they would have the original document on file.

 

HTH

[citizenB]

If this were ever to proceed to litigation then you will be able to ask to see /inspect the original under CPR31.15.

 

Whilst recent test cases have said a creditor can reconstruct to satisfy s78 requests , they are still obliged to provide the original for court. Or at least be able to prove they reconstructed from the original.

 

TBH, I am not fully convinced that continuing to request a document which they evidently are not going to provide to you is worth the stress.

 

However, at the same time, I am not sure what would be your best options to move forward.

[citizenB]

Regardless of the fact there is a covering letter, I am pretty certain the DN should have the name and address of the Company on it. The DN should also be addressed to you personally. That is nothing more than a template document.

 

It also fails the "date" test. It should have a specific date which allows for time in the post. Yours doesnt. It says "within 14 days".. ooops !!

[citizenB]

Thing is until they actually demand the whole of the outstanding amount or specifically write to say the agreement is terminated and demand the whole amount.. they can issue as many DNs they like until they "get it right" so are you wise to keep reminding them they have screwed it up ?

[citizenB]

sorry drob, I meant it had to be on their headed paper Yes, it should state a date that allows for at least 2 working days - 1st class or 4 working days - 2nd class or UK Mail.

 

So if I was sending you a DN dated 1st September (tomorrow) then the remedy date would need to be shown as 17th September 2010 if it were posted 1st class and I think 21st if it were posted 2nd class mail (as 2 of the posting days would be a weekend).

 

Hmmm, signing of agreements. If it were signed tomorrow then it would be executed and I rather suspect a judge would allow that. Now if YOU hadnt signed it.. that would be a different matter.. sorry...

[citizenB]

UPDATE

 

 

Lowell have now purchased this account (allegedly) I have wrote to Lowell and told that the account that they have purchased is in dispute as In my opinion Welcome have supplied me with a Credit Agreement that has been, in my opinion manipulated.

 

Lowell wrote to Welcome and they responded by saying when I cancelled the PPI insurance on the loan I was provided with a new account number and that they did not issue a new agreement and that it is not always necessary for a new agreement to be signed when all the previous account details remain the same.

 

Summary:

 

1. Welcome claim that a new loan agreement wasn't sent to me, however I do have a new loan agreement from them which I believe to be manipulated.

2. I cancelled the PPI which would have changed the details and terms of the original loan agreement, plus Welcome gave me a new account number so surely a new agreement would and should have been provided.

3. Alleged outstanding alance contains charges

4. The original defaullt notice was not executed properly.

 

Lowell have ceased collection activity for 30 days waiting for my reply.

 

Please can anyone offer me any advise what to do next?

 

Yes, when my OH's agreement was restructured after the removal of PPI a new agreement was produced which was required to be signed ! (this was not a Welcome contract BTW)

 

The charges can be / should be reclaimed which would reduce any alleged balance.

 

If the DN was not correctly issued then it would make things difficult for them come any attempt at litigation

 

I am not quite sure what to advise, so will flag for others to comment. Do be aware that Lowells are very trigger happy and have been issuing Statutory demands. Although these can be set aside, it is frustrating and time consuming.

 

Do you know what value the charges applied amount to ?

[citizenB]

Well there will also be the interest on those charges, have you completed a spread sheet ?

[citizenB]

Why can they just not copy them to you ? Or are you wanting to see the originals? In which case they can ask you to inspect at the Welcome office

[citizenB]

Keep the dodgy default notice as a back up plan