Online Car Finance sublect to CCJ/CO - now sold to Cabot

[merlin100]

Hi all.

Ill keep it brief.

OnLine Finance got a CCJ against me last year.

I never recieved any letters from them, nor was I notified by the courts that a CCJ may be pending.

 

Now got a letter from Mortimer Clarke banging on about making payments towards the CCJ.

 

My question is - is it too late to fight this?

the debt arose from a car I had financed by OnLine Finance.

It was stolen and written off.

The insurance company (C.I.S) paid the outstanding balance and I thought that was that.

 

A couple of years later, OnLine started hassling me for money.

I ignored them.

 

When I did attempt to contact them, it was impossible.

It was if they didnt want to discuss this account and rather go down the road they did.

 

So if anyone can help with any information I will be very grateful.

These people are parasites.

[buzby]

You don't get a letter saying a CCJ is 'pending'. You get many letters advising you of the requirement for a defence for a forthcoming action, followed by confirmation that you didn't attend and that a judgement in favour of the pursuer has been granted. if you don't pay this, 28 days later you get the CCJ, and the pursuer then gets to enforce his court order.

 

So - it makes it mighty difficult to ignore all that then say you weren't aware of what was happening. However, if it is only the creditor that is chasing you, you probably haven't a CCJ, and they are trying to bluff you.

 

Ask them for the date of the court action and the judgement - and you can verify this for yourself.

 

If you HAVE a CCJ, reversal Is possible, but not only do you have to pay for all the costs in lifting the judgement, it effectively re-runs the case again, and you could well get exactly the same judgement again, so an appeal doesn't wipe the slate clear.

[merlin100]

Hi all,

got a letter today from Morgan Solicitors threatening an Order of Sale on my property regarding a Charging Order that I havent paid.

The reason for me not paying is that I refuse absolutely to give any of these companies my personal details, and then they always say they can go no further until I confirm who I am.

A bit stupid really when they originally sent the letters.

Its on behalf of Cabot, so Im sure there will be heavy charges in the amount demanded.

So basically, as Ive never been able to deal with any of this - because I dont want them building on any info they may already have on me - what options are available to me at this stage?

Can I challenge the amount with regards to loaded charges?

Can I still SAR them?

Is a CCA too late?

 

Any advise gratefully recieved and thank you in advance.

[Rooster-UK]

I have moved your thread into the Legal Issues Forum where I think you will get the help that you need.

 

Regards, Rooster.

[supasnooper]

Did you defend the original CCJ claim ?

[I've got no money]

We need some info on the original claim - could you post the original claim, a defence, the CCA if you've got it, the Default Notice and any other docs that you've got.

 

Don't forget to take out anything that identifies you

[merlin100]

Hi all,

I have a question that I hope some of you can answer. I am deeply interested....

 

Assume that a debtor has NEVER responded to any letters, phone calls etc regarding a debt.

 

 

This debt has subsequently gone through every stage unchallenged - through a Northamptom CCJ, onto a charging order, and then onto a threat of an Order For Sale.

 

What would happen if the debtor (alleged) then turned up at the hearing for the Order For Sale and denied all knowledge of owing the debt?

 

Would the creditor then be put to proving the debt, or is proof of the debt at this stage irrelevent?

 

It would seem quite unjust if proof of owing the debt was immaterial.

 

We all know how underhand and devious DCAs can be,

so working along those lines,

lets say I picked 100 names out of a telephone book at random.

 

 

I then issued a CCJ for say £5000 against every one of them (through Northampton).

Out of those 100, 10 failed to respond.

I then proceed to petition for a Charging Order against those 10 in the hope that they again, do not bother to respond.

Assume they do not.

 

Does this mean that they now all owe me £5000 and that there is nothing they can do about it?

 

This, along with the example above cannot be right. If so, what can be done regarding strict proof of the debt?

Its one hell of a gamble, but at this late stage, what is there to lose?

 

Suggestions/answers greatly appreciated.......

[Nottsdave]

bump for interest

[bassking44]

sounds like you are contemplating fraud!bassking

[merlin100]

sounds like you are contemplating fraud!bassking

Not at all, its a hypothetical question but one that could possibly be used at a late stage of the proceedings.

Whichever way you look at it, it seems very unjust to attach a debt to someone simply because they choose to ignore an accusation of debt. Thats why I gave scenario 2 - to me there is no difference between both suggestions.

[merlin100]

bump

[bassking44]

In reply to the 1st part of your question I would think that if someone totally ignored the whole legal process why would they suddenly decide to defend it at such a late time?, If they did act in this manner, many people wouldnt, imho have much sympathy for them especially the judge! but if this was the case I think they would be advised to apply for a CCJ "set aside" but they would need a very good reason why they have ignored everything.

I expect many others will disagree with me but its my opinion that in debt cases you DO have to prove you dont owe someone money. Ignore a claim you ll get a default CCJ and if you deny a claim and take them on in court you will need some expert advice,hence the need for excellent sites like this one!. deny a claim and put a dca to proof is an open invite for them to engage in some very dodgy practices! bk44

[merlin100]

Hi bassking, thanks again for your reply.

So what if I sent a CCA to the threatening solicitor now and it turned out they hadnt got, or couldnt find the original agreement?

Would this then render the whole process void?

And surely I could use that as "proof" that I didnt owe the debt?

The onus must then be on them to prove otherwise, after all, they are the ones making the accusations?

The debt is around 6 years old, obviously not statute barred now, but very possibly old enough for there to be no original agreement in existence.

I can imagine all kinds of crap hitting the fan in court, even from the judge should I get an unsympathetic one - but I reckon that as long as I do not verbally deny, or admit to the debt, but follow the grey area of " I do not recall this debt, therefore I am simply asking for proof", that should be enough to create adequate doubt thereby making it unenforceable?

Or am I missing something?

Anyone?

 

Having mentioned the CCA, maybe the CPR route would be better, that way, having been put to legal requirement to supply ALL documents to me, they MUST include the original agreement, otherwise, should they then produce it in court, surely I could complain regarding prejudicing my defence by not supplying ALL documents when legally bound to?

Or again. am I missing something?

[OnMyWayOut]

If you already have a CCJ then a CCA request is no longer applicable. The best option is to raise a Subject Access Request for full disclosure on the lender.

[merlin100]

Hi OnMyWayOuy, thanks for that.

Just a quick question - would the SAR go to the original lender or to the latest bunch to threaten me?

If its to the original lender, then it wouldnt include all the charges placed on the account by the various DCAs and solicitors that have had it since.

And if the original lender cannot produce the agreement - what does that mean at this late stage?

Many thanks guys.

[bassking44]

hi M100 basically no agreement no case! BUT not producing one under CCA doest mean much , they can produce it at anytime, I would think a draft order for all the docs you want is a better route. YOU need someone with more experience than me, Perhaps you need to ask for specific advice if you have a case already pending, ANYONE ??? best of luck bk:)

[merlin100]

....which I hope someone can answer.

 

When faced with a possible Charging Order reposession, and now knowing that there is no copy of the original credit agreement, what could/would happen when I turn up at court and deny outright ever owing the debt?

Im not stupid enough to be sidetracked, either by the creditor or the judge, nor will I follow them should they try to deviate from the fact there is no agreement.

The agreement would have been signed in 2003, last payments 2004, so its pretty old.

 

Apart from the obvious - no agreement, no debt. What and who should I be wary of?

 

Thanks all.

[postggj]

For A Charging Order There Would Need To Be A Ccj

 

No Agreement Would Be A Reason To Set Asside A Ccj

 

No Ccj

No Charging Order

[merlin100]

Thanks postggj,

is it really that simple at this stage?

What if I get asked why I never defended originally?

And who do I hit with the CCA request - the ones hassling now or the original lender (cant remember who that is anyway)?

Thanks postggj

[dx100uk]

you really ought to keep to one thread........so as we can see the background to these thoughts.

 

anyhow

i think it would be pretty stupid.

 

bit like assuming cause the OC does not have an enforcable CCA, that the debt is written off. it will comeback and bite you, badly, when they do produce one. alot better to try and negotiate a very low F&F to close the matter once and for all whilst the ace is in your pack.

 

if it were me & i had been paying this till 2004 & this WAS going to court, i'd seriously consider writing to whomever is going for the repo and offering a regular payment, even £5 & get them to stop the repo.

 

dx

[postggj]

Do Not Do Any Thing Stupid Where A Court Is Concerned

As Stated It Will Come Back And Bite You

Courts Are Fair And Most Of The Time Justice Is Done

 

Have They Said They Are Going For A Charging Order

How Old Is The Ccj

Have You Done An Sar Or Cca Request

As Dx Has Pointed Out

Need To Know The Full Facts So Thats Why Its Best To Keep To One Thread

 

 

For Ref

 

Sar Goes To The Original Lender

Cca Goes To Ever Is Chasing You At The Moment But A Cca Request Is No Good If You Allready Have A Ccj

[merlin100]

But thats what Im trying to say dx, they havent got one.

So how can it ever come back to bite me?

 

I was told that just because there is no CCA ( by these "solicitors") it will not matter - they can and will repossess.

 

I know thats rubbish and so does everyone else on here

- but just to clarify that, I will send them a CCA request.

 

There is one thing throughout this forum that I do not fully understand though

- if I send them a CCA request and they do not comply with that request.

 

How can they then use one in court should it "turn up" at a later date?

Surely an action like this prejudices my defence based on the fact they havent provided one in the legally allotted time-frame so should therefore not be allowed to rely on one in court?

 

I know they are allowed to do this, but if I build a defence based on a legality ie, there failure to provide within the legal time-frame, what recourse do I have to counter this, as surely their failure to abide by the law puts me at a disadvantage?

[dx100uk]

if this new thread is linked to

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/206791-serious-advice-needed-re.html

 

then we ought to get them merged.

 

but for the minute, i would NEVER assume that not having an enforcable CCA means anything.

it is a set process, CCJ...time to fail payment on that...charging order..time to fail payment on that...then repo.

 

dx

[mandyjayne]

Hi merlin...

 

its not only the credit agreement thats involved, they also need to produce a valid default notice, notice of assignment and termination notice, send them a cca request and a sar that will cover them having to produce everything. Templates on here.

 

If you dont defend your case in the first instance thats when they slap you with a ccj, when you then miss a payment on your ccj they go for a charging order, its only in very rare circumstances they make an order for sale.

 

hope this helps in the meantime

 

mj:)

[cymruambyth]

I know it should not make up for no CCA, but they can produce statements that prove you have received credit. This could put the court against you, despite the legalities.

I think you are better off thinkng up suitable replies to that argument and ensuring that you have a good knowledge, backed up with case histories etc.