Harley-Davidson right of rejection?

[1hogan05]

Hello to all, and thanks in advance for reading through this post, this site has been invaluable in the past and I'm hoping for some advice. The story so far:

 

In April 2009, I had readies burning a bike shaped hole in my pocket. I purchased a brand new Harley Davidson Rocker C from an authorised dealership *SilverRock* (not actual name) Harley Davidson (about 150 miles from where I live). It was shiny, chromed to the gills and I loved it the second I set eyes on it.

 

It developed faults almost immediately.

 

First the instrument cluster broke, developing hairline cracks and then shattering. It was replaced under warranty by the supplying dealer. Then it broke again, in exactly the same way. It was replaced under warranty by my local dealer. Then it broke again. Again the local dealer replaced it once more. Cosmetic, bad batch, who knows?

 

The seat tore itself open at the back, by virtue of bad design. It was replaced. It happened again. Replaced once more. And then it happened again, still bursting. Cosmetic, irritating, but not dangerous.

 

The chrome peeled off the belt guard. Not happy about that, but cosmetic right?

 

The gear lever locked solid. I couldn't change gear. The bike was off the road for a month until they could fit me in to fix it.

 

Other minor problems happened.

 

The pulley is attached to the soft alloy rear wheel with steel studs. These tore out of the wheel as I was going round a corner. The wheel, bearings, pulley, axle, belt, carrier and studs had to be replaced. The bike was off the road for 6 weeks.

 

I recieved the bike back. I drove it for a week. The bearings in the rear wheel exploded, destroying the wheel, axle, brake disc, pulley: the lot. Bike is still with the local dealer.

 

I've spoken to Harley Davidson UK - they're sympathetic and Michelle who I've been dealing with is lovely and trying to be as helpful as poss, but they're not the supplying dealer.

 

I spoke to *Silver Rock* Harley-Davidson. They're closing down in 30 days time. I said I wanted to reject the bike. A week later they asked for something in writing. I sent the following

 

(I know, noticed my mistake too late: SOGA rather than supply of goods):

 

________________________________________________________

 

27th May 2010

 

Dear ****,

 

I purchased a Harley Davidson Rocker Custom FXCWC registration **** *** (herein referred to as ‘motorcycle’) in April of 2009 from *Silver Rock* Harley Davidson (herein referred to as 'garage') without finance. In the timeframe and without excessive mileage (7400 covered miles total), the motorcycle has developed a series of increasingly serious faults which have rendered the motorcycle unusable for a portion of my ownership.

 

I have had all specified maintenance carried out at the correct times. The motorcycle has at each point been returned to an authorized Harley Davidson dealership for repair under warranty. The poor quality of original Harley Davidson component engineering has caused faults to continue to occur when parts are replaced. There have been a series of serious, catastrophic and potentially life threatening mechanical faults affecting parts both originally supplied and fitted under warranty, of which you are aware.

 

In accordance with my rights under the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973, and my right to reject under common law, I reject the motorcycle on the grounds that it is not fit for the purpose that it was intended and is incapable of carrying out the tasks it was sold to do.

 

I call on you to take back the motorcycle, and to refund the purchase price of the vehicle. This instruction does not affect my right to claim compensation for inconvenience, loss of use of the motorcycle due to the above defects and any additional expenses until an agreement between us is final. Should a decision not be made final within a reasonable amount of time I reserve the right to claim interest at the rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984.

 

In my view of the serious nature of the above defects, and proof that all work has been carried out to the correct standards, I have no confidence in the safety of vehicle and will not use it again under any circumstance. As it is my position that the motorcycle is not fit for purpose by virtue of poor design, I am not prepared to consider any proposition other than the return of the motorcycle to you and the refund of monies paid.

 

Please let me know when you intend to collect the motorcycle and reimburse by way of compensation.

 

Since you intend to cease trading as a limited company in 30 days time, I must adopt a limited timeframe for the resolution of this matter.

 

The content of this letter is based on advice from Trading Standards who have been consulted concerning this matter.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

 

____________________________________________________________

 

I awaited a response. The owner (Cliff) refused to speak with me directly, I was advised through a lackey that I'm not getting my money back and they won't put anything in writing or give reasons.

 

Once the company shuts down, I'm out of options and given the cost of the vehicle, it's not going to be something I can fast track through small claims.

 

The bike is just waiting to kill me, and it keeps breaking down in the most dangerous and expensive way possible.

 

Help! Any suggestions appreciated.

Edited May 30, 2010 by 1hogan05
removed reg number

[1hogan05]

looks as though the rear pulley bolts issue is a common problem, the alloy is too soft on the rear wheel and the bolts torque out...

 

sprocket bolts sheared off on street bob, YIKES!! - Harley Davidson Forums

[Conniff]

Have you used finance to purchase the bike?

 

and Michelle who I've been dealing with is lovely and trying to be as helpful

Don't say you fell for the top button of the blouse being undone

[1hogan05]

Hi Coniff, thanks for the response.

 

I think I'm just in the thrall of her charming phone manner That and the fact that she's really trying to help!

 

Unfortunately, I paid on the debit card - I checked earlier to see if I put the deposit on the credit card but unfortunately I didn't. There has never been finance of any sort on the bike.

[1hogan05]

 

This is the most recent failure... definately unsafe. The wheel has carved into the fixed axle!

 

(Note: this is the 'bearing failure' - according to my local dealer, the brand new Harley Davidson supplied bearings fitted when the rear end was replaced 'exploded' whilst I was driving)

Edited May 29, 2010 by 1hogan05
added text

[Conniff]

He can easily drag it out until he has closed shop. What you need to know is, is the business folding or is he just giving up.

 

Do you want to name them and then I can do some checks.

 

I don't know that much about bikes, but I thought Harley were quality, seems not.

[1hogan05]

That's what I'm afraid of...

 

I was under the same impression of quality - it's just not true. The myth stems from the typical Harley owner - average age 53, average annual mileage sub 1500.

 

The business is Silverstone Harley-Davidson in Towcester and they are behaving shamefully. The person I spoke to laughed at me today. He found it ever so amusing. I gave them over fourteen thousand pounds for a vehicle and they won't discuss its repeated catastrophic failure in under a years use or try to rectify the situation. They found it funny.

 

Historically, they've been a large dealership. The person I spoke to today said that they have had their franchise taken away by Harley Davidson, so were closing down the existing limited company and reopening under a new name to sell other marques of bike.

 

Japanese bikes are your best bet, I've had 30 or so over the last 11 years and they've never missed a beat - 30,000 miles on an sv650 in 8 months, 22,000 on an R6. Generally, Suzuki / Kawasaki / Honda / Yamaha dealers know that there are people for whom bikes are their main transport and act accordingly. My advice would be to buy after the first years initial depreciation with 12 months of manufacturers warranty left, it's what I'll be going back to from now on.

[Conniff]

Well they aren't a limited company and it doesn't say they are on their website, also I can find no trace of them at Companies House.

 

Do you have the name of the owner, because if the company will not do anything for you, then you can go after the owner.

 

Send them a rejection notice, and I would send it special delivery or registered not just recorded delivery and give them 7 days to respond.

 

On the 10th day send them a letter before action.

 

Chronicale all the problems and gather as many photos as you have and put them all in the order they happened.

Include in the list of problems your conversation with people there and who laughed at you etc;

You don't have to send your pack with the rejection letter, keep that for later.

 

Just say that under the sale of goods act 1974(as amended) you reject the goods for a full refund as not fit for purpose. Although you have had it almost a year so wont be entitled to every penny returned.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Conniff

[1hogan05]

Thanks for looking into that Conniff - you're a star and I owe you a beer.

 

I'd expect some level of deduction for my enjoyment - I'd be happy enough if they just bought the bike back for current used market value, I can't in all good faith sell it on to a private person. It's the unreasonable attitude and unwillingness to provide proper aftersales service I find disconcerting.

 

If they're not limited liability then my worries are unfounded as regards timeframe. I wonder if they're going to keep the same building and just change the name?

 

I'll tempt my solicitor (family member) out of the pit where we keep him with some fish heads on Tuesday and get him on this.

[Surfer01]

Maybe an idea to do a Subject Access Request to ighlight what you don't know.

[1hogan05]

Hi Surfer, thanks for the input. I'm loath to give them another £10

 

Think I'll be OK as regards records, the only information stored electronically will be a couple of work orders from Silverstone HD.

 

Harley-Davidson UK have a complete list of prior faults and manifest of work done to the bike to date by all their franchised dealers.

[Surfer01]

I am thinking of any exchanges between them and manufacturer or head office regarding your bike. These notes could prove to be very valuable.

I may be mistaken, but if they close one company and transfer assets including goodwill to the new company, you will have a claim against the new company.

In essence they should be selling off everything including debt. although they think they may have a workaround to their liabilities I think they may come unstuck.

Maybe something from Companies house showing current directors and then directors of new company and if the same they will ahve a hard time in court trying to wriggle out of refunding you some or all of your money.

hopefully some oen with more knowledge will be able to advsie better than me.

[1hogan05]

Ah, good point. I don't think that Silverstone would comply completely though - maybe if I SAR Harley-Davidson UK they'll have transcript of calls?

[Conniff]

Maybe something from Companies house showing current directors

 

I checked Companies House and no record of the company.

 

Ah, good point. I don't think that Silverstone would comply completely though - maybe if I Subject access request Harley-Davidson UK they'll have transcript of calls?

 

That's just it with a sar, will they send everything. HD could be a different matter though, but what would

you hope to get back?

[Conniff]

 

Unfortunately, I paid on the debit card - I checked earlier to see if I put the deposit on the credit card but unfortunately I didn't. There has never been finance of any sort on the bike.

 

I missed this. You can do a chargeback on a debit card the same as a credit card if it is a Visa card.

 

The majority of us are now aware of the benefits of using our credit cards in terms of the protection it offers us in the event the supplier is unable to offer the goods and services we have paid for.

But did you know that you can also claim the money back if you have paid on your Visa Debit card? And unlike your credit card, which imposes a minimum spend of £100, you can claim back any amount of money.

 

The process is called Visa Debit Chargeback, and, as the name suggests, is a procedure in which the banks will ‘charge back’ the value of the original transaction directly from the supplier’s bank, and pass this amount on to you.

All banks who issue Visa cards have only recently agreed to process chargeback requests, and there is still widespread confusion over what it is and how it works. Therefore if you meet a dead end in your discussions with bank staff, persist. The facility is there for you to take advantage of.

 

Invoking the chargeback procedure

 

If you suspect your card has been used fraudulently, if the goods and services you bought with your card are faulty or if they do not materialise, then you should contact the bank who has provided you with your Visa debit card within 120 days, requesting they initiate the chargeback process. It does not mean you will automatically and immediately get your money back. It will initially become a ‘dispute’ in which the claim will be fully investigated by both banks before any money is returned.

 

It won't help you as you are over the 120 days, but worth keeping in mind.

[1hogan05]

Had a response back from Silverstone, which all seems a bit teflon...

 

_________________________________________________________

 

I am sorry to hear you are not completely satisfied with your Harley-Davidson motorcycle and it is disappointing we have not been given the opportunity to rectify the faults as they are unusual in nature and we would have liked to ensure you were happy with the machine.

 

I refer to your recent complaint which has had to be referred to our lawyers due to the seriousness of your statements.

 

Under their advice I would comment as follows:

 

Your complaint would appear to concern the manufacturers components (or repairs under warranty carried out elsewhere) We cannot comment on any aspect of your complaint as we have not been given the opportunity to inspect the motor-cycle to form our own opinion on its condition. If you are dissatisfied with the work carried out under warranty this must be taken up with the dealership that carried out the work, we cannot be involved in this issue.

 

If you wish to pursue your complaints about Harley-Davidson in the manner you outline it would require an independent engineers report to determine the issues of concern.

 

Given that we have not received any prior complaint from you, or been asked to carry out any work on the motor-cycle since its purchase and the length of time the bike has been in your possession (well over one year) coupled with the late notice of the problems, we would resist the claim to reject the bike on fitness for purpose and quality grounds.

 

You are correct in your statement that Silverstone Harley-Davidson is to close this month and therefore we will be unable to deal with this matter from the end of June as the company will no longer exist and Harley-Davidson will cease communications with us.

 

To protect your interests I suggest you return to the dealership that has been carrying out the repairs and continue your complaint to Harley-Davidson through them as they are responsible for the work that has been carried out.

 

I have always found Harley-Davidson to be a very supportive company and I am sure that if they agreed that one off their products failed to meet their high standards they would act accordingly.

 

Regards

 

___________________________________________________________

[Conniff]

Well, what does one say. I didn't realise you had already had repairs done at other than the selling dealer, this makes a difference, and he is right that you should have gone to him first.

 

I don't know where else to go with this now and can see that your only course of action is to chase up the repairs done with the dealer that done them and claim more repairs under warranty.

 

How many miles has the bike done??

[1hogan05]

The're talking complete nonsense as regards not having worked on the bike - I used the selling dealer for several of the repairs. Just seems to have conveniently slipped their minds. Most of the things that have gone wrong have been original parts or replacement parts fitted by Silverstone.

 

Oh, the bike has done 7400 miles.

[1hogan05]

Thanks again to all who posted advice.

 

In the end, I got into a discussion with a senior chap at Harley Davidson UK.

 

After fairly lengthy negotiation, they extended the warranty on the bike by 2 years, repaired the damage and sent me some gift vouchers. Proof positive that they want to maintain their reputation and quite heartening.