midge61 v Lloyds ***SETTLED IN FULL***

[midge61]

I have been reading some of the posts and it all seems very encouraging. I have a dispute with ltsb £5318 to be exact but I did not find this site til after I started complaining. At the moment all my paperwork is with the Financial Ombudsman.

What I would like to know is will the FO be of any help and if not can I still try to claim back the excess charges from LTSB after the FO has made a decision?

Also I was interested to read the posts from the lady who also reclaimed for a loan taken out because of LTSB. How does that work?

Sorry if this is not clear:grin:

[midge61]

Hi all

I started a complaint against LLOYDS TSB via the OB before I found this site. I had banked with them from 2nd March 2004 until March 2006. I had one bad month about 3months after opening the account and got clobbered with a fistful of charges and it was downhill from there. I even took out 2 loans during that period to beat the bank charges,failed payments and charges from other because of failed payments! In December last year I had to open a new account elsewhere just so I could pay the bills instead of the charges. I contacted LLOYDS and asked them to freeze the overdraft and let me pay back what I could each month but surprise suprise they said no. In the end I took out a secured loan to clear everything. I told them what date the money would go into my account but 4 days before that date they threatened me with a default so I raided my othe account and incurred charges there!!! and they very nicely told me to take my business elsewhere!!! How nice of the Smilie Bankers. Anyway I paid a large cheque for £13500 into my account on a Friday checked on their website how long it would take to clear and it clearly stated the money would be mine on the third working day ( what it didnt say was that was for Loyyds cheques only!) so I arranged 4 payments to go out on the Tuesday only to find out on the Thursday that they didnt!!! and ofcourse I got charged £140. When all payments and transfers were done I went in and closed the account but they withheld £140 and £82 in overdraft excess fees I argued that this was in dispute and they should give me my moneybut they refused. If I hadn't had my 10yold with me I think I may have got arrested. I wrote and complained and got a crappy reply, I answered unhappy and they ignored me. I then complained to Ombudsman and today Lloyds have written offering me £140 ( how kind).

Anyway my question(after all this) is they have asked me to accept this as full and final settlement of my concern, if I agree does this mean that I cannot persue them for the £5113 that they also managed to take from me in the unfortunate 19months that I allowed them to rob me?

Is it acceptable for me to sign this and then in a few days start reclaiming the rest?

Thankyou

[jonni2bad]

HI, welcome aboard.

 

You do not have to accept that, and I would strobgly advice you not to.

 

Have a good read through the FAQ section including the step-by-step guides etc and become familiar with the process of reclaiming.

 

If you don't already have a full history of statements then yor first step will be to issue a request for information under the Data Protection Act - A Subject Access Request.

 

Good luck, keep reading...

[midge61]

Thanks for reply. I have all my statements already so I will refuse and ask to get the full amount. Look out Lloyds here I come. I have also sent my SAR off to Smile.

Many thanks

[midge61]

Hi all

Well I sent a leter turning down thier offer as full and final settlement of my complaint to the FO and also included my premliminary request for the full repayment of charges totalling £5306. This was sent on 30th August and no reply as of yet but they have another week yet.

[mooreda]

I had a long telephone conversation with the Financial Ombudsman Service and a nice women explained to me that if they were to go involved with a case of this nature, they would look at the terms and conditions of the account and further ensure the bank have complied with these and also what is set down by the banking code. I was further advised that the FOS would not be able to in it's juristiction to decide whether the charges are fair and reasonable and if indeed were contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as only a COURT could decide this. The women who I spoke to recommended pursuing the case directly with the bank and ultimately taking the bank to COURT. So therefore, do not waste both your time with the Ombudsman and take your case to COURT.

[midge61]

HI mooreada,

I had already gone to the FO before I found this site but the actual complaint was about 4 specific charges and Lloyds did actually offer a full refund of those charges. That is what I have refused and now commenced with the process from this site to get the rest. So I would say that for a small amount if you can give a good enough reason i.e in my case I said that the imformation I read on Lloyds site was wrong and misleading then it can work.

[midge61]

HI had my first letter of rejection today but they have offered me the £140 again. So I will wait untill Thursday and send my lba.

[jonni2bad]

Well done so far......

[midge61]

Hi all

Well I now have my lba all done ready to post tomorrow. I'm sennding it in the envelope they kindly provided for me and I have also enclosed the following letter for the nice Dawn Barlow

Lloyds TSB

125 Colmore Row

Birmingham

B3 3SF

Re: Account number 1388470

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear Ms Barlow

Thank you for your letter dated 7/9/2006

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, totaling £ 5306.00.

 

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and fully intend to recover the full amount. My letter before action is enclosed with another copy of the charges schedule.

 

I would have hoped that you would have extended your gesture of goodwill to paying the full amount asked for especially with the OFT now beginning their preliminary investigation into bank charges.

I also feel that the shareholders would prefer that you were not paying out more than is necessary. Once I file my claim with the courts Lloyds will have to pay a further one thousand pounds on top of my schedule due to compound interest and court costs being added. Surely it would look better for the bank if they are seen to be dealing quickly and amicably with such claims and not paying out more than necessary.

None of the banks have been prepared to actually step into a court room and defend their ‘charges’ so why do they waste money on pretending that they are going to.

As stated in my letter before action if I do not get a satisfactory answer to this letter I will proceed to make my claim in court.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

Midge61

 

Don't expect it to do any good but you never know!

[GaryH]

Hi midge61,

 

That's a really good letter, but as you say, don't expect it to do any good. The only language Lloyds understand is a court summons.

 

Doing great so far!

 

Gary

[midge61]

Hi Gary

Thanks for your reply and support. It is much appreciated.

[Princess Ivy]

i find it very interesting that the ombudman has so little power to act in these cases. i suppose it's no wonder that the banks therefore have agreed to abide by their descisions.

[Princess Ivy]

good luck midgge 61

[midge61]

Thanks Princess Ivy you too.

[reload]

It's not so much a case that the Ombudsman has so little power Princess Ivy, it's more a case of inclination I feel. Obviously I can't say whether they'd be inclined or not, but I'll let their action to date speak for itself.

[GaryH]

The ombudsman is powerless in these cases, as well the banks know. All they can do is arbitrate over complaints based on the facts in front of them, ie, the terms and conditions of the account. They have no jurisdiction whatsoever on the legalities of those terms and conditions, so could'nt possibly rule against a bank. Only a court can do that. Don't waste the time and paper.

[midge61]

Hi all

Well tomorrow is 7 days since I sent lba so still waiting for next fob off letter. Will start to get money claim ready for next week but do'nt know if I will have the funds as snatch west seem to be using my account as thier personal piggy bank at the moment £1700 in 2 months the b****ards. Written to them twice now about my circumstances and as they did'nt reply first time have said I feel they are in breach of banking code and informed my MP Jeremy Browne. So money claim depends on whether they use my wages for a weekend jolly or they let me have some!!

[midge61]

Hi all

Well I have had a reply to my lba from Annelouise Tisdall Assistant Manager. In it she says she thought my complaint to the ombudsman was just about the £140 of charges and apologises for the confusion. I did initially complain about this but in the section of the form to the ombudsman that asks how you want the problem to be resolved I did state that I would like the remainding amount of charges refunded as well.

 

It goes on in the usual fob off way, Charges are valid blah blah blah...

She says they cannot pay the £5306 but as a gesture of goodwill they are offering me £980.

 

Then she says this is in full and final settlement but if I go back to the ombudsman and they start an investigation it will be withdrawn.

 

So do I now write back and say I accept as partial payment and that I will continue to start my claim through the courts next Thursdasy the 29th which is the 14 day deadline?

 

Thanks in advance

[Michael Browne]

See here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejection-settlement-offer.html

[GaryH]

Firstly - well done for contacting your MP. The more members of this group that do that the better. Also, what about writing to the OFT? They're the ones who could (and should!!!!) be putting a stop to all this once and for all, but they seem to be in a constant state of ditherance (erm.. is that even a word? anyway...) over wether to act or not. Again, the more pressure they get from us the better.

 

Anyway, wether you accept as part payment or not is up to you. If you do though, be careful what you sign and make it ABSOLUTELY clear that you only accept as a partial settlement and will be pursueing the rest. In fact, when you tell them that, they may well just withdraw the offer. If I were you, I'd just tell them to stick it and just go for the lot. But thats up to you of course.

[midge61]

Hi Micheal

Thanks for that will do it tonight.

 

Hi Gary

In the letter she says:

" We don't agree with the OFT's thinking on credit card default charges and we're still talking it through with them.But the important point is that the guidelines only concern 'default' charges. The fees we charge for going over an overdraft limit and for returned payments are not any kind of default penalty. They are fixed standard prices for the service we provide in these situations. so according to our legal experts, the OFT's guidelines on credit card default charges so not in any way apply."

 

I was going to let the ombusdman know that I am taking legal action to recover the charges as I was not satisfied with their reply. Don't know if that will do any good though.

Will write to OFT as well though.

[mooreda]

wow - on the amount of charges you are claiming I would also hit Lloyds in addition to the charges and interest being claimed - with a sum for the time taken to deal with your case and also a sum of compensation for the distress and financial hardship they have caused you!

[GaryH]

Hi Micheal

Thanks for that will do it tonight.

 

Hi Gary

In the letter she says:

" We don't agree with the OFT's thinking on credit card default charges and we're still talking it through with them.But the important point is that the guidelines only concern 'default' charges. The fees we charge for going over an overdraft limit and for returned payments are not any kind of default penalty. They are fixed standard prices for the service we provide in these situations. so according to our legal experts, the OFT's guidelines on credit card default charges so not in any way apply."

 

I was going to let the ombusdman know that I am taking legal action to recover the charges as I was not satisfied with their reply. Don't know if that will do any good though.

Will write to OFT as well though.

 

That paragraph is just the standard rubbish, and rubbish it undoubtably is. It does not matter a toss wether Lloyds TSB "agree" with the OFT or not. Their charges absolutely ARE default chages - default charges which they are pathetically trying to 'cloak' as service charges. Luckily for us, this arguement would never stand up in a court - its a commonly and historically used tactic and the courts are well aware of it. The OFT said in their report that they expected the financial institutions NOT to try to disguise their penaltys in this way. The OFT have the clout and the capability - and a DUTY for that matter - to take positive action, but at the moment they are stuck in no mans land. They've ruled that default penaltys are unlawful, but they're seemingly unwilling to do sod all about it, even though they have a responsibility to.

 

As for the Ombudsman, by all means write if you want, but as I said in a post before, they have no power in this situation.

[midge61]

Thanks for the reply. I was only thinking of letting the ombudsman know because that is how all this started and I know the banks don't particularly like it if they are involved even as you say they really don't do much and have no power.

Anyway letter of refusal going off in the morning.