CL finance not producing paperwork but wont drop it

[bluejimmy]

I am having problems with CL finance.

Sent a CCA request that didn’t turn up and was invited sent papers for Northampton county court .I contested and was referred to local court .The local court told CL to supply the original credit agreement by November. Which they didn’t ,been to court where the judge gave them more time that has no passed and still no agreement.

I have been advised (on this site) to ask for a strike out but court wants £75.

Do I just sit tight now and wait for the next court date (another day off work) or is there something else I can do in the mean time without having to fork out £75.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Edited April 14, 2010 by bluejimmy
pressed enter in middle of title

[gezwee]

Can you post the details of the order, there could be something within it that is useful.

 

As for strike out...... depending on the wording of the order it may be possible to add directions and place before the judge.

 

Did you include any strike out directions at AQ stage as part of WS/skeleton?

 

Gez

[bluejimmy]

hi Gez

it is orderd that

1 the claiment,s application to entre judgment is refused

2 the claiment shall by 31 March 2010 comply with the order of 10 November by providing either a copy of the original agreement or a reconstituted copy thereof.

3 the case management conferencce be adjourned to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

4 costs reserved.

[gezwee]

hi Gez

it is orderd that

1 the claiment,s application to entre judgment is refused

2 the claiment shall by 31 March 2010 comply with the order of 10 November by providing either a copy of the original agreement or a reconstituted copy thereof.

3 the case management conferencce be adjourned to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

4 costs reserved.

 

Bugger, not exactly an 'unless' then

 

Did you enter strike out directions for consideration at original hearing?

 

Has the November order for original agreement been watered down to reconstituted?

 

CPR parts 3.4, 3.8 & 3.9 may be useful to you now PART 3 - THE COURT’S CASE MANAGEMENT POWERS - Ministry of Justice

 

You can file an N244 but as you say its 75 squid additional costs, may be worth testing the water with a strike out request passed under the DJ's nose first...... you won't know until you try and it doesnt look like CL are in any rush to present the correct docs.

 

 

Gez

[bluejimmy]

hi Gez

thanks for reply .

didnt apply for a strike out. dont know what one is.

the WiFe wants to pay the 75notes and have done. but is it ???

and £75 is a lot of money at the moment.

[gezwee]

hi Gez

thanks for reply .

didnt apply for a strike out. dont know what one is.

the WiFe wants to pay the 75notes and have done. but is it ???

and £75 is a lot of money at the moment.

 

If its struck out on the basis that the claim discloses no reasonable grounds then thats pretty much the end of it. They could serve again with amended particulars but they'd have to show a substantial move toward evidencing their particulars for the judge not to stamp hard on their nuts

 

You have to do whatever you are most comfortable with, if its filing an N244 then go for it.

 

Never had to file one myself as I've always (make that sound like a lot but in reality its twice) included directions at aq stage and requested order for disclosure be served 'unless'. Reading some other threads on here I guess I struck lucky in the judge lottery on both ocassions.

 

I'll give a couple of other more experienced caggers on here a nudge and ask if they can help you out with completing.

 

If you havent had any replies by tomorrow night give the thread a bump as it'll bring it back into view again and remind me to look in.

 

Gez

[bluejimmy]

Gez

thanks been a great help. Cant see them producing .and dosnt seem fair they were given a second chance but we are where we are .

thanks again.

[ginnever]

Hi Blue Jimmy if you look at my post cohen & my property,, they didn't produce when they were ordered to the case was dismissed.. as cohen's were going for a charging order.. Even had a letter from cohen saying that they were removing the restriction from my property & would notiyfy the the land registry which they did..

 

Since all this my husband & I have parted.. so they house was up for sale, then sold subject to , contracts exchanged.. with a completion date.. 9 days before completion.. received letters & court date from cohen for the same debt..

 

worried as hell cos contracts had been exchanged.. sat tight.. house sale completed.. yesterday.. so watch this space..lol

[bluejimmy]

bump

[DonkeyB]

Hi Blue Jimmy if you look at my post cohen & my property,, they didn't produce when they were ordered to the case was dismissed.. as cohen's were going for a charging order.. Even had a letter from cohen saying that they were removing the restriction from my property & would notiyfy the the land registry which they did..

 

Since all this my husband & I have parted.. so they house was up for sale, then sold subject to , contracts exchanged.. with a completion date.. 9 days before completion.. received letters & court date from cohen for the same debt..

 

worried as hell cos contracts had been exchanged.. sat tight.. house sale completed.. yesterday.. so watch this space..lol

 

Phew! Have you got a link to your thread? You need to oppose them restarting the claim!

[steven4064]

You could just wait for the case conference and suggest there that their case be struck out for not complying with a court order (see CPR 3.4(2)©)

[bluejimmy]

thanks Steve

should I wright to the courts and as that the case be struck out.

this waiting bit is hard.

[bluejimmy]

Gez

you told me to bump this thread if you never got back to me.

[gezwee]

Hi Bluej

 

Really not sure how best to advise you, I know the wait is frustrating but its really only an either/or situation.

 

Either, as Steven suggests, await case conference and state your case pressing for strike out

 

Or, file a WS now using an N244 and pay the application fee to force the position.

 

It has to be whatever you are most comfortable or confident with.

 

Personally I'd wait until its free and have a sound argument prepared so the DJ strikes out their case.

 

Have a think on it first and search the threads for any successes with strike out applications so you have a good understanding of how to state your case and prepare a WS.

 

Let me know what you want to do and I'll assist where I can

 

Gez

[bluejimmy]

Gez

thanks for getting back so soon. thinking its a waiting game.but the new babys due in 5 weeks and its unwanted stress. !!!!!

also have 1st Cred they havent produced ether and their 14+30 is up on Monday so the letter for them is ready. would rather have this one put to bed before the next starts. but then life wouldnt be so much fun now would it !

[ginnever]

Phew! Have you got a link to your thread? You need to oppose them restarting the claim!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/126336-cohen-my-property.html

[gezwee]

Gez

thanks for getting back so soon. thinking its a waiting game.but the new babys due in 5 weeks and its unwanted stress. !!!!!

also have 1st Cred they havent produced ether and their 14+30 is up on Monday so the letter for them is ready. would rather have this one put to bed before the next starts. but then life wouldnt be so much fun now would it !

 

 

Not sure you'll beat the baby's arrival..... congrats by the way

 

Anything like our local court and you'll wait 3-4 months for a hearing, you can apply for judgement either with or without hearing or telephone hearing - in all honesty I think you'll need to check with the court to see if its usual for strike out applications to be ordered without - court 'officials' arent necessarily experts nor are they there to guide you but most with some experience will know what is and isnt acceptable to their local DDJ's.

 

Can't see anything within CPR that states an application can only be disposed of at a hearing.

 

Anyway, the application itself is pretty straightforward looking and as a suggestion - although wait for others input first - I'd probably look to word box 3 of the application along the lines of:

 

 

The defendant is seeking an order for summary judgement pursuant to CPR24 that the claimants claim be struck out pursuant to CPR3.4 on the grounds that their statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim, additionally that there has been a failure by the claimant to comply with a court order.

Further, the claimant should pay the defendant's costs to be summarily assessed at the hearing of this application.

A witness statement in support of this application is attached.

The defendant seeks an order pursuant to the above stated grounds and knows of no reasons why the disposal of the claimant's claim should progress to trial.

Should the claimant wish to rely on written evidence at the hearing he must file the witness evidence at court and serve witness evidence on the defendant at least 7 days before the hearing of this application.

 

Depending on what info you glean from the court you may end up rejigging this to suit an application without hearing.

 

If you get stuck with the rest of the application give the thread a bump, you'll also need to include a witness statement which should be a pretty straightforward reference to your case history and previously ignored order/s. Costs schedule would be required in addition to this.

 

Gez

Edited April 22, 2010 by gezwee
amended text

[Jasper1965]

hi Gez

it is orderd that

1 the claiment,s application to entre judgment is refused

2 the claiment shall by 31 March 2010 comply with the order of 10 November by providing either a copy of the original agreement or a reconstituted copy thereof.

3 the case management conferencce be adjourned to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

4 costs reserved.

 

 

I'm a little concerned by requirement 2 here. It's the fact that the claimant would be able to comply with the order simply by providing a reconstituted agreement that bothers me. At this stage nothing less than the original should suffice, there either is one or it no longer exists. A reconstituted one can be very easily made up and my 2p's worth is that as the claimant can technically produce a document compliant with this order in little more than five minutes at the photocopier/scanner I would pay the £75 strikeout fee asap to ensure this cannot be allowed to happen.

 

Of course any such application would also include a wasted costs application for several hundreds of pounds to cover your costs of defending this claim.

 

 

eg Circa 20 hours research and drafting time at LIP rate, postage costs, stationery costs plus the costs of any fees paid should come to £300+

[bluejimmy]

Im going for the strike out. Just down loaded the form, jeez they don’t make it easy do they ?

[gezwee]

Shout if you get stuck completing it and I'll see if I can assist

 

And yep, as Jasper notes...... the order for reconstituted agreement is a little fluffy but guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

Gez

[bluejimmy]

Letter from Howard Cohen today.

Saying that they are estimating there costs at £5000 and are and are offering an out of court settlement of the original debt (taking off their fee of £500 already added) if I agree to pay by monthly instalments.

They have also sent a of assignment – which has no mention of myself or an account number only a couple of signatures and the and RBS and CL finance written on.

They also sent a notice of assignment – a letter from them selves and another claiming to be from RBS but not on RBS headed paper and just above my name and address is the Lewis group reference number (looks like a copy and paste from the other letter)

Then a couple of A4’s with Halifax Visa terms and conditions on ,my name and address in the first paragraph, credit card agreement again with my mane and address in the second paragraph.

And then a copy of statements back to 2003.

The last of which was not presented to court at the original request for documents.

The rest were they are just copies of what they produced before.

Can I still apply to get the case struck out as they still haven’t produced a CCA as demanded by court? or is the copy of all the statements good enough ?

Can they now produce these as evidence as they didn’t produce them for the first hearing? Or do you just think as my wife dose that they haven’t got what they need and are trying to bullshine the situation to get what they can as they really don’t have a case.

Edited April 30, 2010 by bluejimmy

[DonkeyB]

Edit: Jimmy fixed it himself!

[DonkeyB]

Can you post up the documents they have sent, removing any personal details?

[bluejimmy]

being a bit thick at the mo cant attatch

[bluejimmy]

try again sorry havent got a scanner so tryed photos