Mrs M v Calder

[MandM]

Hi have a thread concerning my son in law and Barclays and his SAR.

 

While this has been going on he has been receiving letters from Calder concerning his Barclaycard acc, I wrote and told them to back off as he was waiting for Data to be supplied but they are still pushing. Today he received another letter.

 

 

I was going to send them another get lost letter,but wondered if there was a more formal letter I should be sending them.

 

Mrs M

[oilyrag]

Hi Mand M

 

Is this on the back of a dodgy DN from Mercers? Is the "outstanding sum in the box the full balance of the account or just arrears? This seems to be just one of the standard threatograms they routinely send out. If this is the case then I would rspectfully suggest they are on the road to unlawful recission via a termination letter which, if the routine is followed will hotfoot behind this one.

 

We have had the same recently and it is our belief that they have now shot themselves in the foot. IMHO I would wait just to see if anything else arrives for a few days. I am sure someone will be along who has an in depth knowledge of the DN plus T situation.

 

regards

oilyrag.

[MandM]

Thanks Oilyrag.

 

You sort of confirmed what I thought. I dont remember seeing anything from Mercers. As far as I can see Calder have been contacting him since beginning of Nov 09.

 

 

I thought it was a bit strange that the second letter they sent mentions a DN.

 

 

Don't remember seeing a DN, see what the SAR throws up.

 

Then I told them to get lost as he was waiting for a SAR and low and behold 15 days later this letter turned up

 

 

Needless to say we did not answer the letter and since then it has been the usual threatening letters about sending someone round oooooooooooooo!!

 

And then finally the legal letter.

 

Oh well lets see what happens next.

 

 

Mrs M

[oilyrag]

Usual threatograms which look like they have shot their big toe off.

 

Hope one of the experts will be along to advise properly and then for you to accept the termination.

 

regards

oilyrag.

[MandM]

Thanks Oilyrag

 

Mrs M

[MandM]

Well got some data report back and copies of letters sent. It would appear that a DN was sent in August 09 from Mercers so I am assuming that the Default notice is rubbish. The amount in the Pre Legal Letter is for the whole balance and he has not had a termination letter as yet and I cannot find one in the bundle. I have already sent a letter to Barclays Legal Dept concerning the Reserve charge on his current account, so I will see what they come back with.

 

No statements for the card account will also see if they arrive.

 

 

Mrs M

[slick132]

Hi MandM,

 

None of the doc'ts posted above purport to be a DN and I'd say they should be ignored.

 

[oilyrag]

Hi Slick,

 

I am intrigued by your last post. WE DO have the defective DNs from Mercers plus letters from Calders much as the above as per one of the Calders letters posted. There is much discussion going on around the forums about defective/invalid DNs. We have been told to ignore it all by our sols but it does constitute termination in the unlawful sense.

 

Many experienced Caggers are saying that it is necessary to accept unlawful recission in writing thereby halting additional charges and interest?? Sols say not to worry about this they will recover all of this and more at "the appropriate time". In these discussions there are contradictions which need some clarification. Firstly, that termination should always be waited for and then accepted in writing and secondly that in fact a Default Notice is arguably in Law Termination anyway. I personally have some reservation about acceptance of termination in this way because in principle it takes us away from the simplicity of the Statute into Contract law which is really a minefield for the unwary.

 

The following of these arguments led me to suggest here that this is in fact termination, yet your post apparently takes the same stance as our sols but does not mention termination.

 

I am sure Mrs M would like to have a definitive, if that is ever possible in these matters, road to go down.

 

Hope that this makes sense to you and sorry Mrs M this is not a hijack just looking for some clarity for both of us.

 

regards

oilyrag.

[slick132]

Hi Oily,

 

I was referring only to the doc'ts posted by MandM above.

 

I'm aware of the discussions going on on the Manchester Dissection thread and elsewhere, but do not claim to be fully up to date with the Termination and/or Rescission arguments.

 

Hi MandM,

 

I see from post #6 you had a DN back in August 09. Can you post that up please so we can look into this further.

 

[MandM]

Thanks Slick.

Don't have the original, below is copy received in bundle.

 

 

 

Mrs M

[oilyrag]

Hi Mrs M,

 

Let Slick have a look at this first, but this is the same DN we have had from Mercers on multiple accounts. It states clearly that they are agents for BC but there is no full original creditor name and address, it states clearly that its a DN under section 87(1) etc., posted on 7th August, and as Mercers use UKMAIL which is deemed second class and hence 4 days for service, they are short by one day on the time frame as well.

 

Some of the arguments under discussion on the forum are suggesting that this in itself is termination, but the follow up letters IMHO suggest that they have terminated unlawfully. As I understand it, they are now in the position that under the very worst scenario for you they can only ever claim the rightful amount of arrears at the time of termination (hence Mercers figures will also be incorrect as will Calders because almost certainly they will contain unlawful charges) NOT the full outstanding balance and there is a case for damages to be claimed for unlawful recission of the contract. I could not advise definitively on how to proceed and would bow to Slick and much more experienced caggers in this field. As I said, in line with Slick, our sols just smiled wryly and told us to ignore completely, do nothing and wait for them to dare to take us to court. Just our experience.

 

regards

oilyrag.

[MandM]

Thanks Oily

You are quite right we have had these DN's on a number of Barclay accounts we are helping family with and they are all the same.

 

Has anyone managed to get a result from these if the case got to court stage.

 

Mrs M

[oilyrag]

Hi Mrs M

 

I have not found any yet, but likewise I have not found any losses either. I am looking into the veracity of statements made by BC on our Ltd Co. cards so I will keep an eye out for this aspect as well. It all may be down to BC's reluctance to visit the courtroom. They just sell the thing on eventually as they do not like being seen as the "bad boy" and this IMO gives you the ammunition to see off any of the DCAs they appoint or sell it on to, in or out of court.

 

regards

oilyrag.

[slick132]

Clearly the DN itself is invalid as it does not contain the creditor's name and address.

 

They have then gone on to demand the whole of the a/c balance.

 

Can you confirm if there are any unlawful penalty charges on this a/c which have not yet been reclaimed.

 

[MandM]

Hi Slick

 

Have not had a chance to look through all the statements yet, will do this tonight but I would imagine there will be some.

 

Will the charges I am looking for only be the one before he defaulted.

 

Mrs M

[slick132]

Look for all penalty charges - Late payment fee; Over limit fee; Failed DD fee, etc

 

[MandM]

Thanks Slick.

 

Appreciate the comments.

 

Mrs M

[MandM]

Sorry slick.

 

Forgot to say we are still waiting for statements on his card, but will go through them when we get them.

 

Mrs M

[MandM]

Hi, just an update.

 

Received a envelope with a few pages of coms logs for this account, still no statements.

 

All of the log consisted of calls they have made since 2008 asking for money and moaning about non payment.

 

Find it hard to believe this is the only time in 5 years that they have communicated with him.

 

The slip of paper enclosed with the data said, Further to your recent request for information, please find enclosed a further report relating to your Barclaycard account.

 

I not sure where the further came in as we have not had anything from them so far on the SAR.

 

Will give them the rest of the 40 days in the hope that the other further stuff is coming.

 

Will keep you posted.

 

Mrs M

[DoomPriestKano]

My SAR just came back from BC, 2 days later they sent me all statements so they send different aspects of it out seperately i'm guessing.

[MandM]

My SAR just came back from BC, 2 days later they sent me all statements so they send different aspects of it out seperately i'm guessing.

 

Does appear so

[MandM]

Another letter from Calders, opportunity to give them even more of my son in laws money.

 

 

Still no statements from Barc/card.

 

These people really do take the mick.

 

The only consolation is that according to Joanne they will be handing it back to Barclaycard ( I thought they were Barc/card).

 

Will remind them again that am still waiting for SAR and also a reply to a letter that he sent their Legal Dept concerning the way Barclays have handled all his accounts with them.

 

 

Will let you know the outcome.

 

Mrs M