urgent advice needed!!!

[claireblue]

Hi all,

 

for various reasons, our own fault, we have an outstanding council tax bill of around £1133.42....i say around as we have had 3 different amounts told to us by rossendales!!!!! we first recieved a bailiff removal letter through the door, please note that the bailiff did not at anytime knock on the door i was home i called out to her and she ignored me got in her van and drove off!!! I phoned her direct left a message, no return call and no answere each time i tried to contact her. A few days later we had a final notice through the door, again i was home she did not attempt to knock or contact us in any way. we finally managed to contact her and offered to pay by monthly instalments of £100 at which point she became verbally aggressive and basically said there was no way she would accept any installments at which point i got some advice from a debt company who said to then write direct to company and the council, which we did and we also left copy of letter on front door stating we would not let them in and again offering payment and stating that if refused we would go back to council re direct payments, we also asked for a break down of charges. She then attended our property and took letter leaving a notice of distress form on which she had filled out the walking possession agreement asking us to sign that we agreed to our good being sold within so many days...needless to say we have no intention of doing so!!!.... listing pots plants (none specific so have removed my favourites, is this ok as they were no individually listed) garden furniture ( of which there are two really old tables and a chair!!!), a gas bbq and most concerning, a car which does not belong to us which was parked on the street and is listed with wrong colour and model no...since when do they make a peugeot 806!!!!!!!!!! she has charged us £42.50 for 1st visit, £57.00 for second and £110.00 for van and removal of goods, HOWEVER no goods have actually been removed even though the notice states they have, she has never entered the house and had walked round the back and listed garden items she could see over the fence???? is this legal and is there any risk she could attempt to remove the neighbours incorrectly listed car???? We have since made a payment of £200 to the council which they accepted over the counter does this mean they have taken the debt back or are we going to have this woman on our case for a while longer???? sorry about huge post just thought it best if u have all the facts!!lol

 

claireblue

[claireblue]

oh yes and another thing we did ask rossendales for a complete breakdown of all charges incurred this was convieniantly absent from the reply we recieved from them which stated that they could not accept monthly payments and that we must deal with the bailiff direct she scribbled some charges on the notice of distress form which we have listed above but as they were not very clear we would like written confimation as the total amount owed on each notice from them has been different each time!!!!, basically the company will take no responsibilty for their bailiffes actions or charges. Can anyone point me in the right direction for a template letter complaining to the council re the bailiffes behaviour and taking back the debt due to it??? thanks again

 

claireblue.

[fluffy_bunny]

which council is this?

[lets fight bailiffs]

i would forget the payment plan with the bailiff.

 

You need to go to the council and inform them that the bailiff is trying to charge you fraudulant fees because they can only charge £42.50 for 1st and 2nd visit and that is for both not each.

 

this is becoming a huge problem where the bailiff does not knock or ring a bell, as this could only be so they can charge fees without giving the debtor a chance to resolve the issue without adding further hardship.

 

you must Talk to the council as they are liable for there bailiffs, if they say it is nothing to do with them tell them you are also going to report them to the LGO for assisting in an agent commiting fraud.

 

LFB

[lets fight bailiffs]

I had a conversation with a top guy for a council, he told me that if he was to find out that his staff had rejected payments with bailiffs involved or not he would have to consider there job.

 

But that does not mean that the bailiff has been called off you must speak to the council and get it in writing from them.

 

Regards

 

LFB

[RaeUK]

Hi claireblue and welcome.

Do not let them in.

They are entitled to levy on what they can access, in your case garden paraphernalia.

A couple of points though. In your opinion, if your new friend came back and removed the goods levied - forget the car for a minute - would they reach enough at auction to pay all fees and significantly reduce the debt? I think I know the answer.

A bailiff can only levy and remove goods that actually belong to the debtor. Clearly she made no effort to assertain ownership. She can't take the car. That's two errors so far. Others are better placed to advise on charges.

Before you fire off your first guided missile at the council, are there any other circumstance in your life that may also have a bearing here?

Ensure that any letter of complaint is clearly marked FORMAL COMPLAINT and is addressed to the CEO.

Any payments you make, try to do so direct to the council via online payment.

Batten down the hatches for now...

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 1, 2010 by RaeUK
type o

[ploddertom]

There is only one way to find out how much you owe and that is to ring the Council. You have to ask how much the Liability Order is for and how much is still outstanding.

 

You'd be better off paying any future sums direct to the Council, if you have hassles paying cash then you can pay online or use their automated phone service. These 2 methods have to be accepted. Doing it this way will not stop the Bailiff calling.

 

I note you say the Company is being evasive about disclosing their fees to date - that sounds as iof they have something to hide. As Kelcou has said the items that have been levied have to cover the costs and a partial recovery of the sum outstanding, if not then one can argue as to its validity. They are obliged to give your breakdown if requested.

 

Send the Bailiff the following - adapt to your own needs and send by email & letter:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. Can you please provide me with a Statement of my account including Computer Screenshot. This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. I also require the name of the attending Bailiff and the name of the Court he was Certificated at. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

[claireblue]

hi all thanks so much for all your advice...sorry about long wait for reply computer acces is very limited!!! Well i made a payment of £200 to my local council tax office, which they accepted ( after reviewing our payments we found we could squeeze the extra £100 out and would rather get this payed more quickly!!) the lovley chap at the desk gave me my reciept with a wink and a smile..think he knew what we were doing!!!lol and so far fingers crossed mrs bailiff seems to have dissappeared of the face of the earth however we ahve still left letter on door stating car is not ours just in case. Letter to council re complaining about bailiff actions on its way so i am hoping this matter will be resolved very shortly in the mean time we are going to continue making payments of at least £200 per month and get this cleared asap....now just the rest to sort out!!! thanks again

 

claireblue xxx

claireblue xxx

[RaeUK]

Well, so far so good...

Best wishes and good luck.

Rae

[claireblue]

hi can anyone direct me to a template letter to complain to the council about the conduct and excess charges by rossendales and stating that due to this i will be paying them direct (have already accepted payment in cash over counter!!) sorry if i have double posted this but couldn't seem to find my earlier post not sure whats happened???!!!!

 

many thanks

claireblue xxx

[RaeUK]

Lol, I've only just this second replied to your post in the sticky! Glad you made the request here though.

Even for me it's a little late. If no-one points you in the right direction, I'm happy to write a letter for you. But it won't be until late tomorrow.

Best wishes.

Rae.

[RaeUK]

Here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/58550-council-tax-bailiffs-57.html

 

Post #1139

 

Rae.

[claireblue]

Thanks Rae, yeah i work nights and its the only time i have computer access at the moment. i would greatly appriciate a letter dont know if im doing it right but cant seem to get back to my sticky on the other forum.....not great on this contraption yet!!!!!lol

 

amny thanks

 

claireblue xxxx

[claireblue]

ha ha ok im being stupid i just noticed ur link and found it!!!!! sorry

 

claireblue xxx

[trigger21]

hi is the liability order in ur name ?? that is the original bill the council will have sent rossendales?? if you live with someone else that is not named you could get a stat dec syaing all the goods in the property do nto belong to the named debtor

 

keep on hassling rossendales for you r fees they know they are in the wrong but wont admit it

i had same problem then rang them told them i had forwarded all letters i had sent to council and there chief exec and low and behold got a letter back with over 130 in unlawful fees took off

[trigger21]

listen to hallowitch and plodderr tom and kelcou they defo know what to do ignore high court enforcer if he posts on her just found out he is a bloody baliff and always says pay the baliff load of tosh stick to your guns you will win

[RaeUK]

... ignore high court enforcer if he posts on her just found out he is a bloody baliff ...

 

Oh dear, trigger, so sorry but you made me laugh with this! Rather thought his username was a clue...

 

Best wishes.

Rae.

 

[claire I'm working on it...]

[RaeUK]

Hi claireblue,

Here is a template you may wish to use, or amend or even disregard. I think I've covered your complaint but do add anything i have missed. Obviously I'm not aware of the bailiffs name so please insert that where appropriate:

 

[Your Name & Address]

 

[Council & Address]

 

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

Ref: [Council Tax Account Reference]

 

I am writing to make a formal complaint regarding your collecting contractor Rossendales.

 

On [Day & Date] at [Time] my property was visited by an Enforcement Officer from this company. Whilst I was at home and available for consultation, the Officer at no time attempted to gain my attention. Instead choosing to post a letter through my door. As soon as I realised who this person was, I attempted to attract her attention but was steadfastly ignored. Several attempts were made to contact this person by telephone but to no avail. Some days later, on [Day & Date] at [Time] this scenario was repeated. Again she ignored our attempts to attract her attention. When, finally, telephone contact was made, this Officer became both verbally abusive and aggressive. Any attempt at negotiating a payment plan was brushed aside.

 

This type of behaviour is completely unwarranted.

 

I would like to remind you of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents regarding this. For your convenience I have reproduced the relevant part below:

Professionalism and conduct of the enforcement agent

 

·Enforcement agents should always produce relevant identification on request, such as a badge or ID card, together with a written authorisation to act on behalf of the creditor.

·Enforcement agents must carry out their duties in a professional, calm and dignified manner. They must dress appropriately and act with discretion and fairness.

·Enforcement agents must not misrepresent their powers, qualifications, capacities, experience or abilities.

This person then attended our property for a third time. Again without any attempt to make physical contact. Instead she proceeded to make a levy on what she could see in the garden. These items – primarily old garden furniture, pot plants and a BBQ past it’s best before date – would not yield sufficient funds at auction to satisfy your contractors fees let alone make headway into the current outstanding debt. However, more alarmingly, this person also levied on a motor vehicle that does not belong to any member of the household. I believe it to be the property of a neighbour. Clearly, no attempt was made to realistically assess ownership on this occasion.

 

I would like to remind you of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents regarding this. For your convenience I have reproduced the relevant part below:

 

 

Goods

 

·Enforcement agents should take all reasonable steps to satisfy themselves that the value of the goods impounded in satisfaction of the judgement is proportional to the value of the debt and charges owed.

Several attempts have also been made to ascertain a breakdown of the charges your contractors are making for their services. To date this area remains unclear. I would like to remind you of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents regarding this. For your convenience I have reproduced the relevant part below:

Information and confidentiality

 

·All notices, correspondence and documentation issued by the agent/agency must be clear and unambiguous and to the satisfaction of the creditor.

·Enforcement agents should provide clear and prompt information to debtors and where appropriate, creditors.

Any potential for interacting with Rossendales has now clearly become untenable. Therefore I will also copy this complaint to your Head of Revenues and formally request the debt is taken back by the Council in order that an affordable and sustainable method of payment can be agreed.

I trust you will take serious note of this complaint and take immediate steps to ensure your bailiff contractors are fully trained to professional standards. I do not wish anyone else to suffer because of future inappropriate and unprofessional behaviour by your contractors.

Yours sincerely

 

 

..............................................

 

 

Obviously, as suggested in the letter, do copy to Head of revenues with a brief appropriate covering note.

Whilst there is the possibility of a negative response, it does give you the moral highground to complain at a higher level. Be this your councillor, MP or LA Ombudsman.

I have added my original MS Word document as a link due to the formatting not translating to the post!

Best wishes.

Rae.

vulnerable - CEO council complaint 3.doc

Edited March 7, 2010 by RaeUK
tie poo

[lets fight bailiffs]

Rae,

 

Good letter I must say.

 

Trigger, LOL I read this last night and it made me hurt.

 

High court enforcer is a high court enforcement officer or he could just be a field officer:rolleyes:. his job is to collect on writs of fifa from the high court and such like.

 

I love HCEO but i could not eat a full one;)

 

LFB

[tomtubby]

Hi all,

 

for various reasons, our own fault, we have an outstanding council tax bill of around £1133.42....i say around as we have had 3 different amounts told to us by rossendales!!!!! we first recieved a bailiff removal letter through the door, please note that the bailiff did not at anytime knock on the door i was home i called out to her and she ignored me got in her van and drove off!!! I phoned her direct left a message, no return call and no answere each time i tried to contact her. A few days later we had a final notice through the door, again i was home she did not attempt to knock or contact us in any way. we finally managed to contact her and offered to pay by monthly instalments of £100 at which point she became verbally aggressive and basically said there was no way she would accept any installments at which point i got some advice from a debt company who said to then write direct to company and the council, which we did and we also left copy of letter on front door stating we would not let them in and again offering payment and stating that if refused we would go back to council re direct payments, we also asked for a break down of charges. She then attended our property and took letter leaving a notice of distress form on which she had filled out the walking possession agreement asking us to sign that we agreed to our good being sold within so many days...needless to say we have no intention of doing so!!!.... listing pots plants (none specific so have removed my favourites, is this ok as they were no individually listed) garden furniture ( of which there are two really old tables and a chair!!!), a gas bbq and most concerning, a car which does not belong to us which was parked on the street and is listed with wrong colour and model no...since when do they make a peugeot 806!!!!!!!!!! she has charged us £42.50 for 1st visit, £57.00 for second and £110.00 for van and removal of goods, HOWEVER no goods have actually been removed even though the notice states they have, she has never entered the house and had walked round the back and listed garden items she could see over the fence???? is this legal and is there any risk she could attempt to remove the neighbours incorrectly listed car???? We have since made a payment of £200 to the council which they accepted over the counter does this mean they have taken the debt back or are we going to have this woman on our case for a while longer???? sorry about huge post just thought it best if u have all the facts!!lol

 

claireblue

 

The bailiff will say that he can ASSUME that the vehicle belongings to you. It is up to you to advise Rossendales that the car is NOT yours and ask them to carry out a DVLA search. You then require confirmation that they have REMOVED all fees associated with this incorrect levy.

 

Next point, if the bailiff has levied upon goods then he can charge a levy fee. He has NOT charged a levy fee to you. INSTEAD, it would appear that you have been charged an "attending to remove fee. This CANNOT be applied at the same time. Remind the bailiff company of this !!!

[claireblue]

thanks so much for all ur help guys leeter has been sent and so far the biliff has not come knocking since and no contact from rossendales but im just wondering should i send them a payment covering the first two visits - which i know they can charge me for - so that they then dont come chasing me for that in a few months time or will this just encourage them to try to recover the rest????

[Thegreenpimpernel]

TT

 

I understood it that a bailiff cannot charge to attend and remove if there was no genuine intention to do so.

 

Given that (i take it the goods / garden furniture) were still there, the debt was still unpaid and no WP / payment plan agreed - there could have been no intention to remove or they would have done so?

 

They seem to keep doing this.

 

In fact, it seems that unlawful van fees are the new 'core activity' or business model for bailiff firms.

[RaeUK]

Claireblue, to be honest, I would hang fire for a short while and see what happens...

Best wishes.

Rae.

[claireblue]

hi quick update as not sure how to proceed now......council have accepted two payments no problems from them but rossendales have now sent another bailiff round...male this time, think they may be trying the intimidation thing this time!!!, and they have started the whole process again for the same debt!!!??? i am confused can they do this?? i have sent original letter again asking them to list their fees as i never got a satisfactory breakdown of them the first time, which i have pointed out!!! And i am sending a postal order for the fees for the first two visits but will they be able to charge me seperatly for this new bailiff even though its the same debt....oh yes and are they are doing this as they knew they could not remove the garden goods listed and the car obviously does not exsist. I am actually quite worried about this bloke coming back as he did leave a rather nasty message on my mobile (wondering how he got the number in the first place???!!!!) insisting i ring him back which i haven't and wont but i am really scared he will force his way in esp. if my son is home - can i send in a complaint to the council about them sending second bailiff round or is this comman practice??? Many thanks for all the help so far!!!

 

claireblue

[Thegreenpimpernel]

They can't charge extra fees for the 'new' bailiff and he can't force entry - they've never been in your house.

 

When you say "council have accepted two payments" do you mean they took the account back and agreed a payment plan?