Risk of Summary Dismissal?

[Napes44]

I have been working for a company for 9 months & have achieved good results in direct sales. I have an unspent conviction from 2004. At no time have I been asked to declare any convictions. However, a colleague took something from my car which gave details of it. When asked by my manager, I confirmed the fact as I am required to if/when asked. I am now suspended whilst they investigate the matter. I fear that they will seek to summarily dismiss despite the fact that I havent actually done anything wrong here. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

If you were required to declare it; then there would be a section on the application form requesting this information.

[Bigredbus]

What are the grounds for suspension?

[Napes44]

Hello both,

 

1. There was no section on the application form which surprised me obviously and I was never asked whether I had any unspent convictions. Hence I did nothing wrong but my employer i would think is concerned about bad publicity if my employment became known or received press coverage.

2. The grounds for suspension are that now they know I have an unspent conviction. I asked for clarification but that was/is all that I have.

 

I am also aware that no other employee is police checked so potentially there are others with unspent convictions!!

 

regards,

John

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

They are probably now questioning your integrity, authority or standing in your actual position... and if the content of your CRB became generally known, might bring you or your employer into disrepute.

 

a) is your 'unspent conviction' relevant to the work you are actually doing?

 

There should now be a full appraisal of the case, including the risks involved.

 

In your favour is the fact that you disclosed your 'unspent conviction' when requested...

 

They should not necessarily dismiss you...

 

You should contact ACAS and/or CAB...

Edited February 22, 2010 by Bigredbus

[Napes44]

Hello,

 

The conviction is relevent in the sense that I come into contact with the general public and as such if my conviction became publicly known they could potentially be slated. It is interesting though that no other employee has had to make a declaration. I do understand their sensitivity over the issue but to date my work or conduct have not raised any concerns.

 

I am due to speak with the CAB tomorrow for advice.

 

Rgds

[Bigredbus]

Disclosure of CRB content generally is relevant when working in close contact with vulnerable adults and children.

[Napes44]

Hello,

 

I am aware of that but thanks; this role doesn't fall into that category. If it did they would be required to ask for a CRB to be completed. If that were the case, I wouldn't have applied for the job.

 

Have just received the Staff Handbook and they can summarily dismiss me for a 'significant loss of confidence'. Thus as I don't have another job to walk into whether I resign or am sacked, I am seriously in trouble as would not be eligible for benefits for 26 weeks!! As I don't have savings etc I am REALLY facing a major problem!

 

What the hell do i do? Any advice?

 

Regards

[elpulpo]

I wouldn't worry unduly about not receiving benefit if they do dismiss you.

Suspension of benefit is at the discretion of the jobcentre.

I don't think they'd withhold it if you were dismissed here, you haven't done anything wrong.

It's the people who walk out for no good reason, or commit GM that lose their benefit.

[Bigredbus]

Hi 'Napes44',

 

Do you think your employer would use 'loss of confidence' to dismiss you?

 

The Employment Appeal Tribunal has, in various cases, deplored the increasing tendancy to dismiss for 'loss of confidence', stating that this concept is best used by employees in constructive dismissal.

 

I remind you that the ERA sets 6 potentially fair reasons for dismissal...

 

a) Conduct

b) Capability

c) Redundancy

d) Retirement

e) Illegality, and

f) 'some other substantial reason'...

 

It would be difficult to fit any 'loss of confidence' within any of those reasons... Now... Would dismissing you be 'some other substantial reason'?

 

Check elements 'playing' in your favour...

[Napes44]

Hello both and thank you for your advice/opinions,

 

1.The 'loss of confidence' appears a catch all phrase indeed but one I fear they may seek to use; but certainly I think they could argue that this would constitute 'some other substantial reason' BUT if it was such a major issue for them why did they not seek at least a declaration as to any criminal convictions...which they did not ofcourse. This for me is their major weakness and why I think that the best I can hope for is a Compromise Agreement;

2. The fact that they now know does not in any way impede my ability to do my job but they would be fearful of negative publicity and thereby bringing the club into disrepute;

3. I am awaiting a call from the CAB shortly so they will hopefully provide some useful advice; I will post their advice;

4. On the benefit aspect, I do hope you are right!

 

This really is a nightmare. I made a mistake and have paid my debt and all I want to do is keep my head down and earn a living.

 

Regards

[honeybee13]

Hi there and sorry to hear about your problem. It will be interesting to hear what the CAB think. If you haven't already, you could try the ACAS website and also ring their helpline. They will know the technicalities and also things like Compromise Agreements, if it comes to it.

 

I don't know what your conviction was for; are you sure it would impact on your work? Again, I would expect ACAS to know that, and you can talk to them anonymously.

 

Good luck with this, keep us posted or as for more help if you need it. Everyone deserves a second chance in life, don't give up. x

[Bigredbus]

Keep us posted as per the advice the CAB will offer you... and if more help is needed, just post...

 

Take care... and all will be fine, in the end!

[Napes44]

Hello anyone around,

 

Just spoke to CAB and although they didn't say anything new, to paraphrase, they said;

1. Go to meeting;

2. Employer can dismiss me instantly and I have no come-back save appealing to the people who sack me...despite the facts that a) they did not ask about a conviction b) it wasnt asked for on the application form c) it isnt contained within the staff handbook d) no other employee is being asked about any priors d) my consuct to date has been extremely good and over target

3. I have no protection in short

4. Benefit entitlement - maybe

 

oh, they did suggest going to a solicitor which I cannot afford.

 

What a great system we have!

 

Regards

[Bigredbus]

Try and contact ProBonoUK.net

 

or local lawyers who carry out public funded work...

 

Try,also, http://www.freerepresentationunit.org.uk/

Edited February 23, 2010 by Bigredbus
Addendum

[Napes44]

Thanks BRB,

 

I am going to have an initial chat with an employment solicitor later this afternoon and if they think it will require direct contact I shall try to find a way as you suggested.

 

I would like to think that the employer would agree to a mutual ending of the contract by way of redundancy/compromise agreement as I can cause them some embarassment if I inform the press/public but in truth it would seem that I can simply be dismissed if they so choose...will keep you updated.

 

Thank you once again...I have preped a friend who has a small caravan in case it really doesnt go my way!

 

Regards

[Bigredbus]

I hope you will not come to the point of using that 'prep'ed caravan'...

 

But I still think that you can defend your corner (if I may say)...

 

Your employer would have, in order to justify a dismissal, to demonstrate that a public disclosure of the content of your CRB is causing, or would cause injury to his/her business... and if injury there is the nature and the extent of it...

 

Anyway... I wish you the best of luck... Keep us informed...

 

Take care...

[CRH71]

Hi there, and I would like to say how sorry I am to hear of your predicament, especially after you have served the sentence - sadly you now seem to have a "silent sentence" hanging over you and I agree, it isn't fair on the ex-offender.

My understanding is there is a charity named NACRO who WILL be able to assist you with your issue and achieve a satisfactory resolution. They are very used to calls of this nature and very used to resolving them in their client's favour.

I urge you to contact them as a matter of urgency and obtain their advice.

There is another charity, named UNLOCK who may also be able to render further assistance and support.

I sincerely wish you success and a positive outcome

[Napes44]

Hello and thank you for your advice. I will contact them tomorrow.

 

Latest update: Spoke with a solicitor late this afternoon and their view was that the employer can dismiss me and i have no recourse as my employment is under 1 year but that it would be right to expect them to give me a months notice or payment in lieu of that notice. Given the present economic climate it's not great given that I have performed well in my role.

 

I will speak with NACRO and UNLOCK and post an update.

 

Regards and thank you all for your advice

[Bigredbus]

I am ever so sorry about the outcome... I did not notice, or even asked about your period of employment...

 

However, as you were a valued member of your team, I am sure you will be as valued in your next position...

 

Take care 'Napes44'

[honeybee13]

Hi Napes. I hope it doesn't go the way you expect and that NCRO and UNLOCK can help. I just wanted to say that if you do have to leave, any payment in lieu of notice should be tax free. Small consolation I know, and I hope you have a better outcome.

 

My best, HB

[elpulpo]

The fact that this is a position that wasn't subject to a CRB check, and so it's quite possible that other employees have unspent convictions, is a point to argue. It seems very inconsistant that they are applying this treatment to you, just because they chanced on the information.

BTW, how come the colleague took something from your car that gave them the information?

[Napes44]

Thank you BRB

 

I shall keep you posted as the situation develops. As it stands, whatever the outcome, I am trying to identify another position.

 

Rgds

[Napes44]

Hello BRB and all,

 

A little update:

 

NACRO were not helpful at all. They told me basically that there was nothing I could do and that was that.

 

UNLOCK have been very supportive and although it may not yield a different outcome at least I feel that it is not me against the world. They are also referring my situation on to an employment law specialist who they are thrying to get some pro bono work for them. He/she may or may not get directly involved but at least he will hopefully provide some helpful advice.

 

BRB: Thank you very much for this latter suggestion as they have been great.

 

No news from my employer as yet regarding a meeting 'to discuss the situation'.

 

Rgds

[elpulpo]

So, how long have you been suspended for, so far, Napes?