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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Woolwich mortgage charges . ***WON***


HP Mum
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HELP - I need some aid in drafting a complaint letter.

 

In 2008 I had got into problems with paying my mortgage. I was paying something monthly but never the full amount. By December 08 I was in a really bad situation and received threatening letters from Woolwich and was really panicing :sad:.

 

Fortunately my luck turned :) - within a couple weeks :)

Opportunities arose that would enable me to not only pay the full amount monthly, but also to repay the arrears within the first few months of 2009.

From mid Jan 09 I rang Woolwich regularly and made large debit card payments over the phone. Each time I kept them informed as to when the next chunk of money would be coming in.

The men on the phone told me I was the only one that had such arrears that was sorting the situation so quickly and efficiently.

However, the problem was that - because the interest rate had reduced -Woolwich considered me to be more months in arrears that I was when I first went in to arrears. This meant that, say I had been 3 months in arrears @5%, with the interest rates reducing to 1%, Woolwich considered me to be more than 6m in arrears :sad:

That said, I remained positive and by the end of April I could see that I would have cleared my arrears by mid May. I rang Woolwich, made a payment and again told them this situation.

 

However, a few days later I received 2 letters.

One from Woolwich saying my account had been passed to solicitors to commence repossession and they were charging me £100;

the other from the solicitors.

The letters were dated 1 day before my last conversation with Woolwich.

I was furious.

I wrote to Woolwich immediately, advising that Woolwich could see all the payments I had made in 4 months, that I had advised on each call that the arrears would be cleared by Mid May, and that when I had rung the day after this letter was allegedly written, the person on the phone made no mention of it.

 

By mid May I had cleared the arrears. And kept up payments since.

 

From June onwards, each month I rang to make the mortgage payment, I advised that I was still waiting to have a reply to my letter. Each time the man said he would ensure that happened - it never did.

But also - each time the man said that there was an extra charge on my account (the £100 solicitors letter charge which I had refused to pay) and that because it had not been paid, Woolwich was adding a £40 charge each month it was not paid.

Each month, I demanded a reply to my letter and it never came.

 

Finally in Dec 09, because of info gleaned from this site, I told the Woolwich that I thought they had to reply within 10 days to a letter - so why had it already taken more than 6 months ?

I then got a letter from the man I had originally written to.

 

His letter told me that the £100 charge was legitimate and it was to stand and that because it had not been paid I now had 7 months of £40 charges - £380 - and this would continue to increase by £40 until it was paid.....

 

So how do I argue this ?

 

Obviously if he had replied within 10 days all these months of £40 charges would not have been incurred.

Given that I had regularly informed them of the plan to clear the arrears, and was obviously clearing them, they should never have sent it to their solicitors.

I am incensed and wish to write a strong letter demanding all charges are withdrawn.

Can someone point me in the right direction - PLEASE.

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HELP - I need some aid in drafting a complaint letter.

 

In 2008 I had got into problems with paying my mortgage. I was paying something monthly but never the full amount. By December 08 I was in a really bad situation and received threatening letters from Woolwich and was really panicing :Cry:.

 

Fortunately my luck turned :-) - within a couple weeks :-)

Opportunities arose that would enable me to not only pay the full amount monthly, but also to repay the arrears within the first few months of 2009.

From mid Jan 09 I rang Woolwich regularly and made large debit card payments over the phone. Each time I kept them informed as to when the next chunk of money would be coming in.

The men on the phone told me I was the only one that had such arrears that was sorting the situation so quickly and efficiently.

However, the problem was that - because the interest rate had reduced -Woolwich considered me to be more months in arrears that I was when I first went in to arrears. This meant that, say I had been 3 months in arrears @5%, with the interest rates reducing to 1%, Woolwich considered me to be more than 6m in arrears :Cry:

That said, I remained positive and by the end of April I could see that I would have cleared my arrears by mid May. I rang Woolwich, made a payment and again told them this situation.

 

However, a few days later I received 2 letters.

One from Woolwich saying my account had been passed to solicitors to commence repossession and they were charging me £100;

the other from the solicitors.

The letters were dated 1 day before my last conversation with Woolwich.

I was furious.

I wrote to Woolwich immediately, advising that Woolwich could see all the payments I had made in 4 months, that I had advised on each call that the arrears would be cleared by Mid May, and that when I had rung the day after this letter was allegedly written, the person on the phone made no mention of it.

 

By mid May I had cleared the arrears. And kept up payments since.

 

From June onwards, each month I rang to make the mortgage payment, I advised that I was still waiting to have a reply to my letter. Each time the man said he would ensure that happened - it never did.

But also - each time the man said that there was an extra charge on my account (the £100 solicitors letter charge which I had refused to pay) and that because it had not been paid, Woolwich was adding a £40 charge each month it was not paid.

Each month, I demanded a reply to my letter and it never came.

 

Finally in Dec 09, because of info gleaned from this site, I told the Woolwich that I thought they had to reply within 10 days to a letter - so why had it already taken more than 6 months ?

I then got a letter from the man I had originally written to.

 

His letter told me that the £100 charge was legitimate and it was to stand and that because it had not been paid I now had 7 months of £40 charges - £380 - and this would continue to increase by £40 until it was paid.....

 

So how do I argue this ?

 

Obviously if he had replied within 10 days all these months of £40 charges would not have been incurred.

Given that I had regularly informed them of the plan to clear the arrears, and was obviously clearing them, they should never have sent it to their solicitors.

I am incensed and wish to write a strong letter demanding all charges are withdrawn.

Can someone point me in the right direction - PLEASE.

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Hi HP Mum

 

Don't worry too much just yet. A lot of CAGers are at work and will come onto the site this evening and probably pick up your thread then.

 

I have no real expertise but want to follow your case, hence my sub.

 

Having said that I would SAR them remembering to send £10 and send recorded delivery.

 

In theory you should receive within 40 days all the information they hold about you electronically. This should include customer care logs etc, and that lot might reveal material useful to you.

 

Also, this might focus their attention on your case and make them realize you are not a push over.

 

I would do this sooner rather than later just in case events occur!

 

Another thing I would do is go over your bank or mortgage account statements and find the dates of the transactions and log them in a spreadsheet with the amounts.

 

This data will allow you to trace the dates of your calls if you don't have them to hand. Remember, the transaction that appears in your bank is likely to be several days after you quote the card over the phone. (So for example the time of the call might be on a Monday or Tuesday if you see a payment on say a Wednesday).

 

It is possible you could trace these calls on old phone bills as well if you still have them.

 

The point of doing this is so you can write a full history of what went on which may be useful in your correspondence or any future legal proceedings. You may just have an outside chance of spotting something odd in their log when you compare it to your own which might also help.

 

With any luck someone will come along soon and offer something more constructive.

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Hi HPMum,

 

Like Jimmy says, peeps are not around as much in the day. You only posted at noon, so it's too early to be moaning at 5.10pm. ;) But no probs really!!

 

Can I suggest you draft a letter of complaint to Woolwich. Keep it brief but enclose a schedule setting out in date order the history of your troubles with them.

 

This can then be sent to Woolwich HQ asking for a senior staff member to investigate why they are treating you so poorly, when you are doing your very best to keep up to date with the mgge.

 

:)

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Thank you S132,

I will draft a letter this morning and post up here later for approval/2nd thoughts.

Sorry for being impatient ;). I had actually posted the same thread elsewhere and had no response and thought by moving it to Barclays I would get a quicker response !! But no worry. I would just like to get a letter off to them before end of the week/month...and before another £40 charge appears...

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Post your draft so we can check it over.

 

:)

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Hi HP MUM,

 

If you draft a letter and post it here, I'll look through and advise if I can.

 

Keep the letter brief and to the point.

 

:)

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Thanks Slick132,

Here we go:

"I am writing in response to your letter, dated xx/09, the contents of which I have noted.

I wrote to you on xx/05/09 with my complaints. It took 6 months for you to reply to me, despite monthly requests to the Woolwich colleagues who processed my mortgage payments. I understand the guideline for a written response to a complaint is 14 days.

Whilst you claim that the £100 solicitor’s referral charge is fully justified, I maintain that it is not justified. I also stress that none of the excess charges - incurred subsequently by your failure to reply to my letter within a respectable time frame - are justified either.

The statement that you provided with your letter fails to show a true and positive representation of the payments made to both clear my arrears and keep up with the mortgage payments.

The statement provided conveniently starts start April 09. This fails to show that I paid £xx000's in a 3-month period - between xx/12/08 and xx/03/09. These lump sum payments quite clearly showed that there was no need for legal intervention in my account.

Your letter also fails to take into account the regular conversations that I had with your Woolwich colleagues where I fully advised them of an imminent rental income due by mid May which would clear any arrears in full. I understand that I could send in a SAR, if needed, which would show all such conversations.

The reality is that between xx/03/09 and xx/05/09 – a 7 week period only - I made payments totalling almost £xx,000. The Woolwich was fully aware that I would clear the arrears by May 09, from rental income, and that there was absolutely no need for solicitors intervention or any associated charges.

I reiterate that The Woolwich should refund all charges and costs attributed to my account unnecessarily since April 2009.

Yours,

How does that sound?

Anything else (legal jargon/customer care duty etc) that I should add ?

With lots of thanks in advance....

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Hi HP,

 

Dear sir or madam,

Formal Complaint - Mortgage a/c no. xxx xxx xxx

 

I refer to your letter dated xx/09 and must make the following points.

 

I originally wrote to you on xx/05/09 with my complaints. Despite requests which I made each month when I made payments, it took 6 months for you to reply to me. I understand the guideline for a written response to a complaint is 14 days.

 

You say the £100 solicitor’s referral charge is fully justified but it is not. I kept you fully aware of my intentions to clear the a/c arrears. I told you when payments would be made and I made them. I said I would maintain the normal monthly payments AND I would clear the arrears, which I did.

To charge me £100 and have your solicitors threaten me with repossession when I had all but cleared the arrears is outrageous.

The subsequent additions of £40 a month were wholly due to your failure to properly address my complaint in a timely manner.

The statement that you provided with your letter fails to show a true and positive representation of the payments made to both clear my arrears and keep up with the mortgage payments.

The statement starts start April 09 and fails to show that I paid £xx000's in a 3-month period between xx/12/08 and xx/03/09. These lump sum payments clearly demonstrated my good intention.

For you to then write, saying my account would go to your solicitors to start repossesion proceedings, was wholly unfair and unnecessary.

Your letter fails to take into account the regular conversations that I had with your colleagues. I advised them that my improving financial position would enable me to clear the arrears in full.

Your telephone records will show all such conversations and I hope you will save me the trouble and expense of obtaining them by a SAR.

The reality is that, between xx/03/09 and xx/05/09, a period of just 7 weeks, I made payments totalling almost £xx,000. The Woolwich was fully aware that I was clearing the arrears with the intention of the account being up-to-date by May 09.

At a time when many are losing their homes due to mortgage non-payment, you have treated me very badly.

I now ask you to remove from my account the original £100 fee and the subsequent £40 fees added monthly. This will save the Woolwich and myself the time and inconvenience of me reclaiming these fees using the court system.

Please reply within 14 days or I will escalate my complaint further.

 

Yours faithfully,

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Not too hard, please :eek:

 

:)

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We could do with some help from you

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yippee, yippee, yippee :D:)

 

Just got a letter from Woolwich. Very apologetic. And refunding all excess charges for the last year.

 

So thank you very much Slick for your advice / help with this issue.

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Hi HPM,

 

I'm delighted for the result you've got - makes it all worthwhile.

 

If you can manage any donation to the site, it'll be greatly appreciated thanks.

 

Thread title changed accordingly !! :D

We could do with some help from you

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Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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  • 4 months later...

I WON THIS !

Letter of complaint sent to Woolwich and they responded and cleared all charges wrongly imposed.

Was not for a lot of money, but it was MY money, not theirs.

Summary - if Woolwich has added incorrect charges to your account, do complain and do fight to get the £s back. It is your right.

:D

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Hi HP Mum,

 

Congratulations on getting this result.

 

If you can manage a donation to the Site, it will help others who need our help.

 

Thread title changed to reflect your WIN. :D

We could do with some help from you

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I will sort something out towards the site....

 

I had a lovely long letter from the man @ Woolwich. Telling me what a bad person I was to get into arrears etc etc... then finally at the bottom of a A4 sheet accepting they had made some mistakes and would reimburse all charges.... Yea

 

There has been an interesting extra to this story though. I discovered they made another internal error. For some unknown reason, they took too little Interest one month. I continued to pay the amount they had advised in writing I should pay. Each month the person at the other end of the phone queried the amount being paid, and I in return asked for them to put in writing exactly the status of my account. They never did. Then I checked my statement. The computer had re-adjusted my balance and monthly payments due to their mistake in taking too little Interest one month. This meant that there was a difference of less than 50p each month between the lower amount I should have paid and the higher amount the computer had adjusted to allege I should pay. Due to this error, and my apparent failure to pay the amount the computer wanted me to pay, each month the computer raised a £40 charge and interest charge !! For a year !! And because I obviously wasn't paying the charges, the interest and arrears just kept increasing.

Madness !

Anyways, the error got found and all sorted now.

 

Moral of the story - always check your statements !!

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I will sort something out towards the site....

 

Thanks for this.

 

:)

We could do with some help from you

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  • 2 years later...

Evening

I just received a letter asking me to repay all my mortgage.

I am in arrears - but only by half last month's mortgage. The current month is due now.

I have been slow paying for the last year but have always paid monthly, just not the correct amount

- due to having too many recent unexpected financial commitments and juggling.

 

I am panicking.

I am just not in the position to repay all the mortgage now.

The term is not up yet.

And can not let them even begin to instigate legal proceedings.

Not for being half a month in arrears.

I am not sure what I write to them?

 

It seems super drastic for the bank to write to me and ask for the lot to be paid off when they can clearly see that I am paying regularly.

 

I owe money on a barclaycard and have a barclays loan too....

Horrid day :-(

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You need to make a priority list of bills and write to the non priority like credit cards saying you cannot afford the full monthly amount for the present and make sure you pay the mortgage and council tax.

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thank you.

I have not written to them yet. Clearly I need to.

Money is coming in regularly and I can pay, just have been slow. And they can surely see that mortgage has been paid albeit slowly.

I understand that I need to borrow from Peter to pay Paul !! Somethings will have to be put to one side for the next couple months to enable me to clear arrears. But if they have asked for whole mortgage to be repaid, will they accept me just clearing the arrears ?

To be clear, the mortgage is only about 10-15% of the value of the property. So I have tons of equity and can not lose this...

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