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    • I have also found this:  D.2 Service of a PCN by post: 54) There are some circumstances in which a PCN (under Regulation 10) may be served by post: 1) where the contravention has been detected on the basis of evidence from an approved device (approved devices may only be used in limited circumstances) 2) if the CEO has been prevented, for example by force, threats of force, obstruction or violence, from serving the PCN either by affixing it to the vehicle or by giving it to the person who appears to be in charge of that vehicle 3) if the CEO had started to issue the PCN but did not have enough time to finish or serve it before the vehicle was driven away and would otherwise have to write off or cancel the PCN 55) In any of these circumstances a PCN is served by post to the owner and also acts as the NtO. The Secretary of State recommends that postal PCNs should be sent within 14 days of the contravention. Legislation states that postal PCNs must be sent within 28 days, unless otherwise stated in the Regulations. This from London Councils Code of Practice on Civil Parking Enforcement.  The question is what is an approved device? Certainly, he had the opportunity to place the ticket on my car and I didn't drive away.  I looked further and it seems that an approved device is a CCTV camera - It seems that the photos taken were not actual film but images and it is not clear if they are taken from a video or are stills. I'm guessing if it was moving images then the SAR would have stated this.    From the Borough of Hounslow website: "There are two types of PCN issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004, which governs parking contraventions. The first is served on-street by a Civil Enforcement Officer, who will observe a vehicle and collect evidence before serving the PCN either by placing it in a plastic wallet under the windscreen wiper, or by handing it to the driver. The second is a PCN served by post, based on CCTV footage taken by an approved device, which has been reviewed by a trained CCTV Operator."   From Legislation.gov.uk regarding approved devices: Approved Devices 4.  A device is an approved device for the purposes of these Regulations if it is of a type which has been certified by the Secretary of State as one which meets requirements specified in Schedule 1. SCHEDULE 1Specified requirements for approved devices 1.  The device must include a camera which is— (a)securely mounted on a vehicle, a building, a post or other structure, (b)mounted in such a position that vehicles in relation to which relevant road traffic contraventions are being committed can be surveyed by it, (c)connected by secure data links to a recording system, and (d)capable of producing in one or more pictures, a legible image or images of the vehicle in relation to which a relevant road traffic contravention was committed which show its registration mark and enough of its location to show the circumstances of the contravention. 2.  The device must include a recording system in which— (a)recordings are made automatically of the output from the camera or cameras surveying the vehicle and the place where a contravention is occurring, (b)there is used a secure and reliable recording method that records at a minimum rate of 5 frames per second, (c)each frame of all captured images is timed (in hours, minutes and seconds), dated and sequentially numbered automatically by means of a visual counter, and (d)where the device does not occupy a fixed location, it records the location from which it is being operated. 3.  The device and visual counter must— (a)be synchronised with a suitably independent national standard clock; and (b)be accurate within plus or minus 10 seconds over a 14-day period and re-synchronised to the suitably independent national standard clock at least once during that period. 4.  Where the device includes a facility to print a still image, that image when printed must be endorsed with the time and date when the frame was captured and its unique number. 5.  Where the device can record spoken words or other audio data simultaneously with visual images, the device must include a means of verifying that, in any recording produced by it, the sound track is correctly synchronised with the visual image.
    • Hearing took place today.  Case dismissed with costs awarded. Neither UKPC or a representative turned up.  Apparently they messaged the court on 7 May asking for their case to be considered on paper.  Never informed me, which was criticised by the judge as not following procedure.  I was really annoyed as I would have preferred for the case to be thrown out before the hearing, or at least face them in court and see them squeal.   They are just playing a numbers game and hope you blink 1st!   Ended up having to change my flight, but  the costs awarded softens the blow. Was asked to confirm it was my signature on both the witness statement and supplementary statement.  Wasn't asked to read them, said she could see my arguments made and the signs were insufficient and no contract formed. Took maybe 10 mins in total.  Judge did most of the talking and was best for me just to keep quiet or confirm any statements made. Happy to have won as a matter of principle and have costs awarded. Maybe not worth all the time and hassle for any newbies or the technologically challenged.  But if you are stubborn like me and willing to put in the time and effort, you can beat these vultures! I big shout out to everyone who helped on the thread with their advice and guidance, special mention to FTMDave, thank you sir!  Really appreciate everyone's efforts. All the best!
    • I plan to be honest to avoid any further trouble, tell them that the name should be changed to my official name
    • There is no evidence that I was issued a PCN that was placed on the car and removed. It seems that I was issued a £60 PCN on the 8th of March (the parking date) but it was never placed on my car, instead,  they allege that they posted the PCN on the 13th of March and deemed delivered on the 15th. I never got this 1st £60 PCN demand. I only know about all of this through the SAR. I only received the second PCN demanding £100, which was deemed delivered on 16/04/2024 - that is 39 days after the parking incident.  I did a little research and "Legislation states that postal PCNs must be sent within 28 days, unless otherwise stated in the Regulations." as per London Councils Code of Practice on Civil Parking Enforcement.  The main issue is that I was not aware of the 1st £60 PCN as I didn't receive it - I'm not sure how this relates to the 28-day rule because that rule applies to the initial £60 PCN. PCM could say that "we sent him the letter by post and it was deemed delivered on the 15th of March" therefore the 28-day rule does not apply.  As regards the safety of the parking attendant, that is clearly something he chose to feel and he made the decision that his safety was threatened - I didn't even see him or had any interaction with him. I'm nearly 50 and I definitely don't look aggressive 😊  
    • okay will do. I'll let you know if anything transpires but once again - many thanks
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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£86 phone bill debt becomes £766 in 4yrs. Is this fair?


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Thanks

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Make a complaint to the ICO, they should have passed the request on to the relevant department. https://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/contact_us.aspx

 

 

Thanks for all the help so far Cerberusalert. I was reading on the ICO page and the part that Istly says Before you complain to us

First, tell the organisation concerned and give it an opportunity to put things right. , should I write back to 3G and inform them that I am now making a complaint to the ICO? It is now 42days since I sent out the subject access. The last letter I received from 3G was the one where they stated that I need to contact their Data Protection Officer. They also mention that the accnt was passed over to HFO and that if I have any questions I should contact them. They haven't returned my £10 postal order as yet and I just wrote to royal mail to find out if this has been cashed.

 

So going from here, say 3G is in breach of the subject access I sent them, what happens next? Roxburge now has this account? How does this help my case? Do I write to 3G letting them know that I am complaining to the ICO or do I just do the letter of compliant to ICO? I am a bit all over the place as to where to go from here and what direction I am heading towards.

Again, thank you for the help.

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Oh, thanks. Yes I did send the "Prove It" to Rox and they did respond. They letter mentions that they have been seconded by HFO to chase and collect the monies due. They put the details of the account of which are different to what I believe to be correct. They mention the Contract start date, Disconnection date, Last amount paid and then says that "The above suggests that the contract was not fulfilled and their terms and conditions not adhered to. They also stated outstanding balance £473,90 charges £10, interest £265,48 Misc charges 17.62, outstanding £767. Then lastly telling me its in my best interst to settle this asap.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi guys. Sorry, back again with this.

I got a phone call from Roxburge today( Haven't heard from them in more than 2months) who put me through to some other company of which they say they have bought the debt from Roxburge. I think it is Graham White solicitors. I spoke to a woman who insited, as they do, that I pay this debt or they are taking this to court. I explained that I had asked for information on this account from both 3 and Roxburge and this information has not been given to me. She went on again saying that all that she is seeing on the screen is what I should pay and what the courts will make me pay. I told her I that I still need the info on the account so I know what I am paying towards otherwise I will not pay.

She then got all cheeky on me and told me if that's what I am saying then they going to take it to court.

 

Now I had written to 3 to get info on the state of the account when they passed this onto the debt collectors but they were unable to provide this in the required time. They still have my £10 postal order as well. As advised I wrote to the ICO in March with concerns to 3, and have not yet heard a single thing back from them. Is this normal? What should I do about that???

 

Statue bared for this account will be October this year. (6years)

Could someone please elaborate statue bared to me as I am thinking this is possibly my way out of this? My last payment to this account was October 2004.

Hope this all makes sense.

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Get back to the ico and ask why they haven't responded to your complaint.

 

Do not speak to Rox on the 'phone other than to say you want everything in writing.

 

When you receive a letter from them threatening legal action send them this;

 

Their address

 

 

****NOTICE UNDER CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES***

 

reference

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

This is in acknowledgement of your letter dated ................and also of .............The contents of which have been duly noted.

Further to you stressing that County Court proceedings will be actioned by yourselves should I fail to make contact/stressing that proccedings are about to be commenced in regard to alleged sums outstanding and alleged owed by me on the above account,I remind you of Civil procedure rules protocols. Nevertheless in my response to your letter please be advised of the following.

 

 

I put forward that you now have a requirement to provide me with;

 

 

1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signature, is required.

 

2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with........... is required.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I make this request to ensure that each party has equal footings which can allow action to proceed speedily fairly and without undue costs or waste of courts time,as defined within Pre-action Practice Directions -Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules.

I will give you 14 days to respond with the above,failure to comply will result in a complaint being made to the Court./In addition to the FOS for any breaches of OFT and CCA codes.This includes breaches as a result of initiating a Country Court claim where failing to provide or produce documents make litigation improper..

Specifically this relates to one or any number of the following;

 

* demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* add any further interest or charges to the account.

* pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

* register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.

* issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Furthermore,I reserve my right to make a copy of this letter available for inspection to the Court and Financial/Consumer regulators should you fail to comply with this request.

I await your response,and should you need further clarification on any of the above points,then I suggest that you direct them to your legal department.

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully/Sincerely

 

 

 

 

......................... . (not to be signed) Print name

 

 

Dated..........

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