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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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Car in garage for over 2 months


Nutgrove
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Hi, My 2001 BMW went into an independent garage in mid-November for a service, MOT, and new front brake discs (because there was slight vibration under breaking on the motorway). After they finished the service and disc change, it failed the MOT on brake imbalance. They replaced the brake calipers, but no difference, and after trying a replacement ABS unit in the car they sent the original off for testing which came back as 'ok'. They exchanged a 'boost pump' and also the master cylinder. They replaced the brake calipers again just in case they were a duff set, but still no improvement. There is now another problem in that the ABS light comes on after reaching about 20mph, and they can find a problem. They took it to the BMW main dealer who suggested exchanging the ABS unit again, but the garage decided this was not necessary as this had been done already. They are still working hard trying to solve the problem, but I am beginning to feel that a brake problem really shouldn't take this long to solve. I'm not really sure what to do! I can't really take it off them as they know what's been changed and another garage may have to start again. I wish it could go back to how it was before it went, but the abs light must be related to something which has happened in the last two months. Does anyone have any suggestions please?

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when you say slight vibration under braking, did you feel it through the car or the steering wheel? have they checked the brake hose pipes, it might be worth replacing them, and have they inspected the rear brakes for any possible faults.

 

2 months is ridiculous to fix this, i would really consider taking the car somewhere else and have them look at it, they have actually added to your predicament by causing a fault with the abs, i'd hate to think how much this is costing you.

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Hi - thanks for the reply. The vibration under braking was through the steering - it was classic warped discs vibration. They have replaced all the flexi hoses and also the rear discs and pads too. The problem is that I won't want to pay anything to the current garage without the car being fixed, and as there is the new problem with the abs, is this something caused by what they have done or not? It's hard to say, although they have had the whole braking system to pieces etc.

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This is a classic case of not following correct procedure in bleeding the braking system, especially more so since changing the ABS modulator. You can't do it properley without having it hooked up and electronically opening the valves in a set sequence. It's nothing like it used to be in the good old days.

 

Once this has been done road test. The swop wheels front to back and balance. Road test again and it still evident then start measuring run out and wear pattern on surface of discs under a magnifying glass.

 

A pad change could be in order as well as it's not unknown for varience in compressibility of the linings predominantly on metal sintered pads.

 

I also take it that routine things like steering and suspension joints are ok as are the run out on the wheels and tyres.

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I don't think there is vibration now, but as I haven't had it back I don't know how it drives now. Brake balance has been measured on the MOT rolling road, and the system is being bled electronically as they are a proper Bosch service centre. The problem is the ABS/DSC light coming on and there not being a found cause for this. There is a £600 new Bosch ABS valve block on it's way from Germany now, so if this doesn't solve the issue, do I have to pay for it? It is a Bosch system in the hands of a Bosch service centre - I can't understand how it can be unsolvable.

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None of these issues is insolvable and provided the correct process is followed there should be none.

 

However, the fact that ABS light and now DSC light come on is significant.

 

The first thing to check, which is not in the manuals, is to check the wheel diameter at the tyres.

 

I've posted it before but all 4 wheels have to be within a certain percentage of each other, otherwise it will trigger all systems associated with the ABS.

 

Now as you have a DSC light on as well this makes it a bit more complicated.

 

The DSC relies on a little black box mounted centrally in the car. The inertia of a skid is determined by the G force generated in unit and sends a signal to ABS unit.

 

These are just some thoughts with regards to progressing the problem but I can catagoricaly say it's not easy to trace these issues as they don't have access to what is known as live data.

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Thanks. Nothing's really changed with the wheels though. The rear tyres are newer than the fronts, but they were replaced over 6 months ago, and all are the same size.

I'm not sure what you mean by live data - is it driving with a laptop connected to the ECU so you can see what's going on? They have a fair amount of laptops and software but I'm not sure if they have the same degree as a BMW main dealer. I'll wait and see if this new unit solves the problem, and then will have some difficult issues to confront. If the problem is fixed, how many of the new parts fitted will I have to pay for? If it is not fixed, can I take the car away and pay nothing? If the answer to the second question is 'yes', are the garage responsible for getting the car repaired elsewhere?

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you will have to pay the garage for the new parts fitted if everything gets resolved , it will also depend on what you agreed with the garage when you asked them to look at it.

if none of it has been resolved you will still have to pay for all parts they have fitted and take it to another garage to fix, they would be within their rights to keep your car until they get payment, if you pay , write clearly on the invoice "paid under protest", not just yours but also their copy too. this will be a record that you were unhappy with garage.

 

did they not inform you and ask you for your Authorization when replacing these parts ?

test drive the car before payment, as you state you are still unsure that the vibration is still there, have they informed you what parts that they replaced cured this?

As for the matter regarding the abs/dsc you might have some redress there about paying, because it seems this problem manifested when they were trying to cure the other problem , i would argue your case on this, and another thing you should ask for either way , is for all the old parts back.

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Thanks MegaCraggy. There was nothing wrong with the car when it went in to the garage. It was for a service, MOT, and front disc replacement which was part of the service - these are consumable items these days I believe? I would be more than happy to get the car back exactly as it went in! If only I could turn back time.....

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Can you ask them to clear down the chassis system control module, test to get lights on again and let you know the fault codes that are being registered. Then post them here or let us know and I'll have a look. Remember the codes just because registered does not mean that part is faulty.

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Can't remember exactly but the speedo sensor on beemers is on the diff I think which is another signal the DSC picks up on. ABS uses the wheel speed sensors.

 

I wonder if they have jacked up the car on one end and the yaw sensor has got stuck????

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Need the code nutgrove. It will usually start with a letter followed by 4 numbers and for the code above there will have to be others as well so if you could get all codes it would help. It's also possible to be a 2 digit code but think this would be unlikely.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry for the delay, and I don't have the actual code. It is to do with the pressure from the charge pump when the self test runs at 20 mph. The pressure is low, and so the lights all come up on the dash - ABS, DSC, and also the '!' warning triangle. The garage have reached the end of their time with it as it is now 3 months, and although they are not charging for the 100 or so hours labour, I have a bill for about £3000 for parts which they have fitted which have not solved the problem. The list of parts is extensive, and would be a large bill even if it was fixed. A broken car and £3000 out of pocket is not good, especially as it would only be worth about £4500 in perfect working order.

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I'll see what I can do with this. Can you ask them how they know the pressurre was low? Are they relying on the electronics or did they have an actual pressure reading?

 

It still suggests to me a Bleeding of fluid problem believe it or not.

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Hi, thanks for your help. They have replaced the pressure sensor twice in the abs valve block, but are getting error 5C which is low charge pump pressure or pressure 'out of acceptable parameters' I think. They have bled the system many times now and used gallons of brake fluid and they have done this using the computer (opening the nipples and pressing a button on the computer I believe).

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Actually I just went to the garage for all the codes, and this is a print out from one program which was done by someone they called in:

 

5C DSC: Pressure-sensor test

DSC actively switched

no ABS control

Stop-light switch: not actuated

no ASC control

no DSC contol

Brake booster: passive

no ACC control

no HDC control

 

 

The Win Star machine which is owned by the garage came up with these errors:

88 - Pre-charge pump

92 - Brake pressure sensor plausibility

 

If anyone has any further ideas I'd be most grateful!

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Hi Nuts,

 

Sorry for the pun as I expect it is driving you so.

 

I have come across this before and it is extreamly rare but can happen. I'm not able to tell you where but is fixable if it is what I think and the history of the repair will sort of verify it.

 

If youd be kind enough to pm me with a breakdown/precis of what happened and the history of the garage diagnosis I'll run it by my guys to confirm or discuss what is the likely cause and suggest a way of getting over it. I could also do with knowing if the pedal feels hard or sinks i.e. irrespective of the lights, does the pedal feel normal. A way of doing this and gauging the degree of degredation is, if possible, to pump the pedal some 20 times, then run the engine for a few minutes. Turn off and repeat the pumping. Pedal should go hard after about 6 to 10 pumps. This exhausts the servo assistance and gives a real life condition of the hydraulic system.

 

To be fair, if it is what I think it is then it's highly unlikely they will have come across it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

It went to a BMW specialist who managed to diagnose a faulty master cylinder and fix it within 2 days. I have been presented with a bill for £2500 (which includes the service and the disc and pad change - originally quoted at £1200). The question really is if this is fair to charge the extra £1300 especially as it has taken over 3 months. The charge pump is what was causing the problem originally, so I obviously don't mind paying for that.

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