Eviction 2nd December ,..

[michellej]

just popping out for dinner , will be onto this after lunch ,.. thanks for sharing your thoughts shakespeare62

[michellej]

I have looked over the original amount I recieved from Ocean Finance ,.. and a commission is in view £2800 extra ontop of loan amount ,.. so my point is this,.. If I am entitled to claim this monies back then surely G E Money would play this down and probably bring to light that this was charged from Ocean ,.. and they have no interest in it or paying back as they company never recieved this ,... and if they are right in law , then that means I do not really have to pay them the money borrowed from Ocean ,.. as my contract was with Ocean ,.. to this day I have never signed no contract with any of the last 2 companies ,,. I will google

section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 ,.. seems a little tecnical but will browse again ,.. and I will take it all the way to court if need be ,.. any thoughts folk thanks

[michellej]

hi folks found this searching and thought I would post it to see what others think about this ,.. plus for me to refer back to , here go's

 

Dear XXXXXX Acc No XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Re: Statutory request pursuant to Consumer Credit Act 1974 Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2008, the contents of which are noted. I must draw your attention to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On the xx/xx/2008 I wrote to your company requesting that you provide a copy of the written contract, in this case the credit agreement upon which this debt, which you claim a right to recover is based. You will no doubt be aware that this debt is credit as defined within the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and as a result, pursuant to section 78(1) of the Act I may demand a copy of the credit agreement at any time as long as the statutory fee of £1 is paid. Your response to my request leaves me a little confused, I must point out that it would appear that you have mis interpreted the law as your response has major inaccuracies within it Firstly you state that you purchased the debt, and have the right to collect and add interest. Let me clear this up for you, you may have the right to collect or attempt to collect but any right to add interest would be based upon the contract. Since you cannot provide a copy of the contract, I would have to ask under what provision of law do you believe allows you a right to add outside of the written contract? Secondly, you state that you are not the original creditor nor did you provide the original credit facility. Now then, either way, you have a duty to ensure that the correct documentation is provided. If you are assigned a debt and the assignment is absolute, it would come within section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. Now surely you will be aware of the definition of “Creditor�?within the consumer credit Act 1974, section 189(1) of the CCA 1974 states "creditor " means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor Therefore if you are claiming that the assignment is absolute you have the same duties as were placed upon the original creditor and MUST supply me on demand with a true copy of the original agreement. However, if you purport that the assignment is merely equitable and not absolute I.e. you have the rights but none of the responsibilities under the agreement, then I draw your attention to section 175 of the CCA 1974 175.Duty of persons deemed to be agents. Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under a regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to him forthwith So clearly, you would have a duty to pass my statutory request on to **CREDITOR** for them to supply the information, I would like to point out that the OFT guidelines on debt collection make it clear that all collection activities should cease while a reasonably disputed debt is investigated and you seem not to have placed the account on hold which Is in breach of those guidelines Also since you cannot provide a copy of the credit agreement, this debt becomes unenforceable in law, furthermore, any rights to process my personal data and defame my credit file would be contained within the written contract, the contract which you do not appear to have! I'm sure I don’t need to go over the vast amount of case law that has been before the Court of Appeal and the House of Lords but I will outline the facts from the Judgment of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD in the House of Lords Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul)29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. Clearly No Credit Agreement, containing the prescribed terms as per Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983 Schedule 6 Column 2 and signed by the debtor, that can be produced before the court means the court cannot enforce the debt. This is mirrored in the following cases�? Wilson and another v. Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 London North Securities Ltd & Mr and Mrs. Meadows [2005] EWCA Civ 956, Dimond v. Lovell - [2000] Q.B. 216, Rankine v Barclays Bank Plc [2005] I'm sure your legal department will be aware of these cases, but should they not be fully conversant, then I can provide copies of the judgments To clarify my position I do not have any debt with your organisation, I do not acknowledge any debt with your organisation and I shall not enter into any negotiations to settle any debt you claim I have with your organisation. Until such time that you can produce before me a copy of the credit agreement containing the prescribed terms in the prescribed form bearing my signature, I will not discuss this matter further. Further more, I put you on notice that any further attempts to collect this debt or any harassment by your company to coerce me into paying you monies before you provide me the documents that I requested, then I shall issue you a letter before claim, complying with the pre action protocol Para 4.3 placing you on notice that I will be issuing proceedings in the xxxxxxx County Court against your organisation seeking a judicial ruling pursuant to section 142(1) of the CCA 1974 to determine the validity of this debt. I must point out that the court has the power to discharge a debtor from their obligations under section 142 and I am advised that any action that I could bring under that section has an excellent prospect of success as the facts stand and furthermore I would ask the court to consider costs in this matter. I again invite you to provide access to the original agreement showing that it contains the prescribed terms and is signed by both the original creditor and myself. If you are unable to do so, then I would invite you to give consideration to writing the balance off and closing the account. I am mindful of the fact that litigation would lead to added costs and time on both sides and therefore I urge you to consider this situation and act accordingly, from the advice I have received it is clear to me that I have a good prospect of success based upon these arguments and I do not wish to have to press this issue before the courts unless totally necessary. I respectfully request a response to this letter within 14 days setting out your position

[on*the*case]

Hi michellej

 

Thanks for the PM.

I cant really answer regarding your post, sounds interesting and certainly there are people on the forum who will know, but it will probably need a new thread in another section within loans & mortgages, this area is mostly haunted by those looking for urgent help with a repossession and those like Ell-enn who can help.

I understand that Ell-enn has been away this weekend, but will be on the forum possibly later this evening and definitely tomorrow to check on last minute details for you:-)

 

To bring a post to the attention of the site team, click on the little red triangle to the left.

 

Regards OTC

[michellej]

yeah you are right sorry about going off topic ,... will probably start another thread , will flag it and see what is said thanks

[on*the*case]

I know, once you get your dander up you want to find every way of fighting back against these people and their evil ways. I certainly do.

[michellej]

yes certainly does get your back up , well after all it is our homes at stake , well at court in morning to suspend eviction (which was set for this wednesday 2nd December ,)a little nervous,... found some old statements and things from G E Money from 2007 ,.. and they do not have a charge on the property ,.. so would this debt be unsecured? any thoughts on this as I will raise it at court tomorrow , thanks everyone for your help , best wishes

[shakespeare62]

yes certainly does get your back up , well after all it is our homes at stake , well at court in morning to suspend eviction (which was set for this wednesday 2nd December ,)a little nervous,... found some old statements and things from G E Money from 2007 ,.. and they do not have a charge on the property ,.. so would this debt be unsecured? any thoughts on this as I will raise it at court tomorrow , thanks everyone for your help , best wishes

 

If they don't have a charge on your property then it's not a secured loan.

 

Good luck tomorrow.

[michellej]

no they definately do not have a charge , last charge was from first national in 2003 ,.. and thanks for you thoughts on tomorrow ,.. think we will be fine ,.. as I now have the letter of sale ,..

[on*the*case]

Well that is a turn up about the charge !!

 

Good Luck in court, I think it will be fine. We will thinking of you.

[michellej]

Hi everybody ,... well hearing was put back 8 weeks giving us time on the sale ,... We had a chat with Duty Solictor and to tell you the truth , felt worse after talking with him ,.. told me I could not dispute arreas ,.. explain my thoughts on arreas and that interest and charges could not be added to arreas as this gives the wrong impression on amount owed ,.. and that law states I am only in arreas for the contracual payments , he said this is not true , and if you have a contract it will state charges in agreement , you will of signed agreement so bound to the charges & interest added ,.. obviously I was getting confused with this young duty solicitor ,.. so mentioned that G E Money do not have a charge on the property ,.. I showed him land register , (charges register) ,.. I seen him talking with some guy representing G E Money , next thing the guy is rushing out the door on his phone obviously calling G E Money ,.. I went back to duty solicitor and asked what the guy was asking , he told me he told him about the charge not in place ,.. the guy politely asked me on his return if th charge was First National or First National Bank ,..

we go into court for the hearing ,.. within 2 minues , knock on door , clerk comes in and proudly says we have a fax for this case ,.. I am thinking what is this? ,.. the fax was from G E Money saying the charge is in place in first national's name ,.. and as the same company but trading as G E Money , the charge is on the property ,.. well even though a little disappoint , its good to know instead of wasting time chasing this up so glad the duty solicitor mentioned this ,..

Just wondering what to do next ?????????/ I want to take this further and so be it if am the first to challenge then in court over secret commission paid to get this account put right ,.. now arreas £44,000 ,.. should I write to them and tell them I am disputing mortgage and would like the interest stopped whilst in dispute ,.. ????/ any thoughts would be good on this ,.. because things (charges and interest would build up whilst in dispute ) ,.. well thanks in advance ,..

[steven4064]

Hi michelle

 

A couple of things. I think you are right about charges. The fact that they are on an agreement that you signd doesn't make them OK. If they are effectively penalties, then they are unlawful and you can (and should) reclaim them plus any interest charged on them. You can do this, either by disputing the amount of the debt or by counterclaiming to have them repaid.

 

If you suspect hidden commisions, then that should be enough to stay their claim. You could ask them for documentation about it using the procedure of CPR 18.1 PART 18 - FURTHER INFORMATION - Ministry of Justice

[michellej]

I think I will follow the secet commission route , as definately charges , and the interest charges would be reclaimable ? ,.. although I do not want to claim charges ,.. they tried to boot us out our home ,.. we have been a customer for 7 years and paid £22,000 in that time ,.. only took £31,000 loan ,.. £2,300 aded on for brokers fees ,.. total credit £33,000+ ,.. now they say £44,000 outstanding ,.. even charged interest on the months I covered the monthly payment ,.. at least if I can prove secret commission can wash my hands of this company as in my book, would owe original debt so only £9,000 to find to get rid of them ,.. and I bet some other charges + interest will add another few £0,000 ,.. so will be close to even with this company ,.. otherwise just claiming charges , still have them hanging over me ,.. I will take your advice and send an CPR 18.1 , and this will give me the underwriters statement? ,.. as I believeOcean Finance were tied to this lender , and I am also going to be request info from Ocean Finance regarding the key facts to other deals they searched for me , and why they thought Ocean were the best for me ,.. anything to get a case going ,.. not ready to let them take the family home without a fight ,.. put to much into it to give it away ,.. and if I can prove my case will be over the moon ,.. £9,000 or less is a hell of a lot better the £44,000 and increasing ,.. thanks for your thoughts best wishes

[michellej]

what correct procedure to suspend monthly payment and interest whilst in dispute ? ,.. as do not want this to increase any further especially now a sale agreed ,.. I do not want to sell and if I can prove this commission then that will be a far better outcome , as we are very settled in our home , right near the kiddies school , everything including family ,..

[michellej]

Morning all ,... well had another thought , if I used a no win no fee property solicitor , to fight my case and I happen to win ,.. would I be able to claim them fees off G E Money ? ,.. as if so then surely must be worth bringing an expert along to put your case forward ,.. I know we get to know lots through this forum , but I think a professional spokesman would be great and only strengthen our cases and show we mean business ,.. well all thoughts on this will be great

[chantelle 26]

hi there, totally off topic here sorry but Im desperately trying to add my own thread about an imminent eviction dec 10th and I cant seem to find the link to add a new thread, maybe its because I just joined...is there a certain amount of time before I can post . . .( time I do not have the luxury of right now!)

please help!!!!!

[TimeToStandUp]

Chantelle, if you go back to the main repo page, at the top there a button called start new thread.

 

Type all the details on it, I am same as you Eviction date 10th Dec, but have now got everything sorted with the help of this site and am back in court on Tues.

[on*the*case]

hi there, totally off topic here sorry but Im desperately trying to add my own thread about an imminent eviction dec 10th and I cant seem to find the link to add a new thread, maybe its because I just joined...is there a certain amount of time before I can post . . .( time I do not have the luxury of right now!)

please help!!!!!

 

chantelle26

 

To start a new thread in Repossessions:

Go to the top of the page, just below Yahoo Search box and just above CAG Announcements, click on the word 'repossessions'.

That will take you to the Repossessions pages.

Then near the top of the page and on the left, just above Roy Cox QC in green letters is a box 'New Thread' click that and make your post.

In the title say something like 'HELP Urgent Eviction 10 December' and then brief details of your problem, someone will be along to help.

 

Looking out for your post

[michellej]

Hi , did you manage to get a thread up ,.. ???????/ think the best thing for you to do is put in an N244 Form ,.. you can do this straigt away and take whatever you need to court on the 10th, we just did the samething 3 days ago ,.. we were waiting on info coming back ,.. but as we were close we needed to submit our appeal , ask court clerk if this would be fine to bring paperwork along ,.. it was fine and no problem ,..

good luck with this , should be fine ,.. we were worried , but happened as advised , you have come to a great place for help

[andrew1]

Hi Michelle, can I ask, is this the 1st Mtg holder taking repo action or a 2nd charge loan company?

[michellej]

Hi Andrew , second charge !

[michellej]

Well Big update !!!!!!!!! WE HAVE OUR CASE AND CIRCUMSTANCES 100% CORRECT

All thoughts welcome , as we intend to fight this all the way ,..

 

Well we recieved a court date which is in March so quite a little more time then expected ,.. we were expecting to be back in court in Febuary , so March gives us a little more time ,.. well here goes for the true facts , we were not going to list them as thought lenders might identify our case , but to be truthful , we are past caring as truth be known we want the world to know the way we have been treated by our lenders after giving them the benefit of doubt when the chips were down ,...

 

At the beginning of December (just gone , ) all though we talked a good fight decided to sell the family home as I was close to a break down , I was put on anti-depressents , so easier to sell up and get rid of the stress ,.. well I can say after a few weeks of reading up on this forum and medication , I feel a million times better and ready to fight as after reading I can see what should of happened and the rules the lenders should of stuck by ,.. my spirits are lifted and I am happy to log in and continue to gain the knowledge to fight and remove these from my life ,..

 

G E Money contacted us January 2008 advising us that we would be going to court over arrears of £1,500 (rough figure avoid the spies) in March, We contacted G E in Febuary and offered to pay double our payments , normal payment per month £250 , so offered £500 per month £250 normal monthly payment plus £250 off arrears ,.. their agreed but said courtcase would go ahead to confirm agreement , and possession order would be suspended ,.. we went to court possession order was suspended and the judge ordered that we pay what we had offered to REDUCE the arrears ,..

 

£250 per month extra clears arrears in 6 months ,... 1st payment end of March ,.. so final payment should of been end of August ,...

 

So we continue to pay for 5 months ,.. payment for july was made on the beginning of August 2008 , it was made over the phone , and as we expected the last arrears payment to be made end of August ,.. we asked for a statement ,..

 

On recieving the statement ,.. We noticed to our horror that the arrears had not gone down at all and in fact had increased ,.. we looked at the statement we recieved and could see first hand what was happening ,.. we paid £500 (£250 monthly payment , & £250 off arrears ) 7 days later a £335 interest charge would be added to our account ,.. so wiped out the amount we paid off arrears plus add another £75 arrears per month ,.. so in fact as we paid off the arrears the arrears continued to grow ,.. so we expected to see only £250 left owed on arrears after paying £250 per month for 5 months ,.. but no original arrears of £1500 , now £2050,...

 

straight away I contated lenders as very annoyed ,.. I request agreement as I was going to a solicitor as totally unfair conditions ,.. I was advised that it would be dealt with in house ,.. I made my concerns known that my arrears had not reduced and in fact getting higher , so the risk of losing my home was getting higher ,.. I was advised that the payments would be frozen whilst in dispute ,...

 

That was August 08 ,.. and considering I had a suspended repossession order in the March of the same year ,... then in November this year , 15 MONTH TO THE DAY - I RECIEVE AN EVICTION NOTICE ,....

 

I never realised that the arrears now of £5,700 are charges for the last 15 months ,... 15 months that the debt should of been frozen as serious dispute ,..

 

And I think I need to prove that the Eviction order for the arrears of £5,700 should not be in court as these are the result of charges , charges that are over the 15 month that account was in dispute ,.. and can not see how the lenders can say otherwise ,.. as remember I was on a suspended repossession order ,.. so why 15 months for action if I just totally ignored them ?,.. it took this long as I listened to them ,.. and now some reason the eviction order ,.. I believe their were waiting for some judgement as the agreement their have must be a joke ,..

Edited January 1, 2010 by michellej

[michellej]

Anyone got any thoughts on this or know of simlar circumstances , will be good to hear other peoples thoughts as looking for best angle to attack,.. best wishes

Edited January 2, 2010 by michellej

[on*the*case]

Hi michellej

 

Thanks for your pm, and I am very pleased that you are feeling stronger and more determined.

 

Something is not right on your account:-o

Have you attempted to work out the payments and claimed interest, with a calculator and sheet of paper?

 

You need more information, and they are obliged to give it you, using the procedure of CPR 18.1 PART 18 - FURTHER INFORMATION - Ministry of Justice Read this up and have a look on the legal threads for how to requested more detailed information.

One of the things you need is an Actuarial Statement of Account (I think that is what its called) this gives a daily calculation of the account with balances and interest etc, this a GE internal working document and CPR 18 gives you the right to see this.

[michellej]

Hi On*The*Case , good to hear a reply on the thread was getting sick of logging in and no posts ,.. I have requested the agreement / underwriters sheets CPR 36.16,.. bu I have found (what I thought was a statement) loan agreement , no signature no nothing ,.. showing that brokers fees were added to loan amount ,.. which has been subject to interest charges for 7 years ,.. I did have a picture on this thread but to big and had to scroll across page to read posts , so removed this as I know can be a hassle if reading a long post ,.. the agreement is a joke ,.. thanks again or your thoughts ,.. yeah definately something not right ,.. and again , thy are not sending me a agreement , will not comply ,..