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    • when mediation call they will ask the same 3 questions that are in their email you had to accept it going forward. simply state 'i do not have enough information from the claimant to make an informed decision upon mediation so i refuse. end of problem.  
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    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business CEntre Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio i Ltd How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self   Date of issue –  15 Feb 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  The claim is for the sum of £922 due by the Defendant under and agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a Capital One account with an account reference of [number with 16 digits] The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a Default Notice was served under s.87(1) of the Consumer Credit ACt 1974 which has not been complied with. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 16-06-23, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of the issue of these proceedings in the sum of £49.15 The Claimant claims the sum of £972 What is the total value of the claim? £1112 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I dont know the details of the PAPDC to know if it was pursuant to paragraph 3, but I did receive a Letter of Claim with a questionaire/form to fill. Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I was aware, I'm not certain I received a 'Notice of Assignment' from Capital One but may have been informed the account had been sold without such a title on the letter? Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not since the debt purchase, and not from Capital One. Why did you cease payments? I can't remember - it was the tail end of the pandemic and I may not have had enough income to keep up payments - I am self-employed and work in the event industry - at that time. I also had a bank account that didn't allow direct debits and may have just forgotten payments and became annoyed at fines for late payments. What was the date of your last payment? Appears to be 20/4/2022 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No Here is my Defence: Defence - 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had an agreement with Capital One but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of having been served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) 5. The Defendant has sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has yet to comply and remains in default of said request. 6. A further request has been made via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied and to date nothing has been received. 7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for and; c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 88 CCA1974 d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed 9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .................. Please note that I had to write a defence quite quickly as I hit the deadline. At the time of writing the defence, I hadn't been able to find correspondence from Capital One, but had since found default letter etc. I submitted CCA request and CPR 31.14. However, I didn't get any proof of postage or use registered post for the CPR (an oversight) but did with the CCA request. I received a pack which included a letter from Overdales, going over the defence I'd filed, as well as letters of Lowells and reprints of letters from Capital One. But I have no idea if this pack is in response to the CCA request or the CPR ! I would have expected two separate responses ... although I do know they are both the same company. Looking over the pack today, and looking through old emails .. I find some discrepancies in the Capital One default letters (notice of default and Claim of default). They are both dated *before* an email I have stating that a default can be avoided. The one single page of agreement sent (so not the full agreement) has a 16 digit number at the top in small print, next to 'Capital One' which corresponds to a number called 'PURN' printed at the top of each of the 10 pages of ins and outs of the account (they're not official statements, but a list of monthly goings) yet no mention anywhere on either of the account number. I cant really scan them at the moment - I can later tomorrow, but that will be after the mediation call I'm sure. I guess I may be on my own for this mediation ... I am not certain the CCA request has been satisfied .. or if the CPR has been . And then I appear to have evidence that the Default notices provided are fabricated ? Yet, I do have (elsewhere ... not at home) Default letters from Capital One I can check ..
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FDPM WELL -V-BOS (Preference Account) ***WON***


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Is there anyone who canhelp me with my witness statement? Please

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

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Is there anyone who canhelp me with my witness statement? Please

 

FDPM Witness Statements are not that hard to prepare. Use the one you have from the BOS as a template i.e. include the name of the court, the parties, the case reference number etc in the same places as they have. Just simply change the heading to state it is your Witness Statement.

 

Then set out your case in numbered paragraphs with either 1.5 or double spacing.

 

For me your stratagy is pretty obvious, you argue that you were never issued with a Default Notice. In support you can point to repeated requests for copies of the document and the BOS have failed to respond (include copies of request letters/applications). Also I assume that the DN does-not appear in the document bundle that the BOS wish to reply on?

 

Therefore without a DN the BOS cannot go ahead with formal legal proceedings as they would be in breach of the CCA and therefore the Summary Judgement has to be dissmissed.

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PLEASE please please can one of you more experienced Caggers look over this and let me know if it is okay? I'm in court on Wednesday:

 

 

 

 

 

Notice of Hearing of Application in the ?????? County Court

 

Claim Number xxxxxxxx

 

Claimant: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Defendant: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Original County Court Summons issued xxxxx 2009 through Northampton CC.

 

Particulars of Claim:

The Claimant’s claim is for £xxxx.xx presently due pursuant to a credit agreement entered into by the parties, full particulars of which have been supplied hitherto.

By an agreement dated xxxx/1999 the Defendant has an account number 00000000 with the claimant. The Defendant has failed or delayed to adhere to the terms of the Default Notice issued by the Claimant under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The balance due as at 00/00/2009 on said account is £0000.00.

 

 

I, FDPM, of my address WILL SAY AS FOLLOWS:-

 

 

  • The contents of this statement are true to the best of my information, knowledge and belief.
  • The Claimant, xxxxxxxxxx has stated that on 0000000 1998 by signature of an Account Application Form, I entered into an overdraft facility with Capital Bank. I deny this as I never applied for an overdraft facility.
  • The Claimant has also argued that because this is a bank account that it is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and yet, in their original County Court Summons issued on 00000 they claim “The Defendant has failed or delayed to adhere to the terms of the Default Notice issued by the Claimant under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974”
  • In part 9 of Claimant’s Witness Statement the Claimant refers to the Defendant using the “credit card”
  • The card was shown on my credit report as a CREDIT CARD, the statements I received always showed a CREDIT LIMIT and I would argue that if it was truly an overdraft facility and a bank account that I should have been encouraged to pay my salary into the account and the statements would have shown an OVERDRAFT LIMIT.
  • The Defendant understands that it will now form part of the Claimant’s Claim that this agreement is not a regulated agreement under the CCA 1974. The Defendant avers, however, that this is a regulated agreement and falls under the remit of that Act. To help clarify these matters, please see this extract from a Court case (Coutts v Sebastyen) which is part of the summing up by the Judge in relation to effect on overdrafts and the function of the CCA in such circumstances;
     
    “The Defendant provided an overdraft on the account;
    a. The agreement was a regulated debtor-creditor agreement within the meaning of s.8 and s.13© of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, providing for 'running-account credit' within the meaning of s.10(1)(a) of the Act (in effect, a revolving credit within an agreed credit limit); and
    b. That, as such, it was subject to the requirements of Part V of the Act (including the requirements as to documentation set out in sections 57 to 63 of the Act) save and in so far as it was excluded or exempted from such requirements.
     
    Section 65 in Part V of the Act provides that an "improperly executed" regulated agreement is unenforceable by the creditor without a court order. It is common ground that a regulated agreement is "improperly executed" for this purpose if the requirements of sections 57 to 63 have not been complied with.
     
    Section 74 of the Act provides for the exclusion of certain agreements from Part V. It provides as follows (so far as material):
    "74. – (1) This part …. does not apply to –
    (b) a debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, …
    (3) Subsection 1(b) … applies only where the OFT so determines, and such a determination –
    (a) may be made subject to such conditions as the OFT thinks fit …
    (3A) …. in relation to a debtor-creditor agreement under which the creditor is …. a bank …. the OFT shall make a determination that subsection 1(b) above applies unless it considers that it would be against the public interest to do so.
     
    THE DETERMINATION:
     
    The Determination (which is signed by the Director of Fair Trading) is made under section 74(3) of the Act. I set it out in full:

    "1. Under the powers conferred upon me by s.74(3) and (3A) and s.133 of the Consumer Credit 1974, I, the Director General, being satisfied that it would not be against the public interest to do so, hereby revoke with effect from 1st February 1990 the Determination made by me in respect of Section 74(1)(b) and dated 3 November 1983 and now determine that with effect from 1st February 1990 Section 74(1)(b) shall apply to every debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, under which the creditor is a bank.
    2. This Determination is made subject to the following conditions:-
    (a) that the creditor shall have informed my Office in writing of his general intention to enter into agreements to which the Determination will apply;
    (b) that where there is an agreement between a creditor and a debtor for the granting of credit in the form of an advance on a current account, the debtor shall be informed at the time or before the agreement is concluded:
    - of the credit limit, if any,
    - of the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended,
    - of the procedure for terminating the agreement;
    and this information shall be confirmed in writing.
    © that where a debtor overdraws his current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor and that account remains overdrawn for more than 3 months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than 7 days after the end of that 3 month period of the annual rate of interest and charges applicable.
    3. In this Determination the terms 'creditor' and 'debtor' shall have the meanings assigned to them respectively by Section 189 of [the Act]. The term 'bank' includes the Bank of England and banks within the meaning of the Bankers' Books Evidence Act 1879 as amended."
     
     
     
  • The Defendant, therefore, puts the Claimant to strict proof of;

a. The contractual agreement between both parties in relation to the Current Account, allowing the Defendant to request overdraft facilities and which terms and conditions were included as part of that agreement;

b. Where no such agreement can be provided, the agreement between the two parties as to the overdraft facilities provided to the Defendant at the time of application for an overdraft by the Defendant;

c. Where no such agreement can be provided, copies of original documentation sent to the Defendant that complies with the Office of Fair Trading Determination, issued in relation to overdrafts on Current Accounts, under s.74 and s.133 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974; (that Determination being dated 1st February 1990)

 

 

  • In its reply to the Defendant Part 31 request dated vvvvvvv the Claimant enclosed a copy of an alleged Default Notice said to be issued on bbbbbbb and issued in accordance with s.87(1) CCA 1974.
  • The Defendant is prepared to swear on oath at trial that such Default Notice was not issued at the time the agreement was terminated by the Claimant and, accordingly, puts the Claimant to strict proof of said issue and receipt of that Notice.
  • The Defendant therefore argues that the agreement has not been defaulted and terminated in accordance with part VII CCA 1974 and as such, the Claimant is not entitled to rely on that default or termination in Defaulting the Defendant.
     

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

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Thanks Tonks,

 

I read through your thread last night - good luck for Tuesday.

 

I'm trying to sort my stuff out and look after two very aged parents in law as well as go to work... so always doing this just before or late at night which isn't conducive to concentration!

 

I also think I'm too late because the 7 days was up last week but I thought if I could at least list all the points I need to raise then at least I could quote it to the DJ on Wednesday.

 

Thanks

 

Fdpm

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

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Witness statement looks fine to me FDPM....I have included a couple more here which may assist...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/151709-help-10.html#post1891351

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/148840-enforcable-agreement-mbna-help-6.html#post1877388

 

I think you'll need a half decent judge too....

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looks fine to me. Remember to be a subservient forelock tugging LIP to the judge. Your objective is to ingratiate yourself and be afforded latitude as a none legally trained person. Then when the other side least expect it whip out your baseball bat and let 'em have it!

 

The fact is that they lent you money to be paid back in more than 4 installments over more than 12 months. Therefore it's either CCA or a gift

 

and remember

 

current account = banking code FSA

overdraft = section 10 cca

 

Completely different agreements and contractual relationships.

 

But your initial goal is that it's a credit card so where's the part v compliant agreement.

 

I'll be there with you in spirit!

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Hello FDPM

Maybe you could email it to the court explain you didnt realise

it had to be in 7 days before , FAO DJ x put your case no ect

dont think you have anything to lose by trying .

 

All the best

 

Tonks:)

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As Tonks has said, get it submitted to the court ASAP

 

You can fax it, e-mail, post it by Special Delivery but get it submitted !!

I'd also attach a grovelling apology for the oversight as well.

 

If you don't submit your defence before the hearing, the Judge may not allow it to be used.

 

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Big THANK YOU to all of you who have made suggestions and helped me - I have emailed my WS, LIP Costs and an apology to the DJ for the late sending of both and now I'm in the hands of God and the DJ - (that could be a song title!)

 

I will let you all know the outcome after Court tomorrow...

 

Fingers and toes crossed!

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

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Good advice from M0fH in the first paragraph, in post 21. Remember your focus is to take it further not to win the case (this was my mistake)

 

Good hunting and good luck

 

Kel

PS if all else fails try not to get locked up :)

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I will try ... lol

 

My friend is coming with me to court so at least I wont be facing it all alone... though it is scary! The court is a combined one with both County and Crown so they could lock me up....:oops:

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

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Well, I'm home again and not in jail yet!

 

Today we arrived at court promptly and found our way up to the DJ rooms.

 

The chap from the other side was a paralegal and very nice - he offered to answer any questions I might have regarding the procedure but I declined gracefully.

 

The DJ was a lady and awfully nice - she allowed me to state my case and then asked the paralegal to state the bank's case.

 

I argued that the bank seemed to be trying to circumvent the CCA 1974 by calling their credit card an overdraft and I did mention the phrase "if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck" (couldn't help myself)

 

I also pointed out about the credit limit and the fact they had called it a credit card even in their WS! I stated that I had submitted my defence on the grounds of their original CCS and that they now seemed to be going away from that and moving the goalposts which was at the least very confusing and most, underhand.

 

They focussed very heavily on the application form I had signed and said it was an agreement? and also the pl said that they had proof of sending the DN because the computer said so.

 

Anyway - the Judge listened to all the arguments and summarised that she didn't feel it was 'fair' to make a Summary Judgement but that she would lift the 'stay' and allow the bank to amend their Claim. She set a date for them to have this in by and then said that I would have until such and such a date to submit my defence.

 

She also said she needed to warn me that the costs would be much higher.

 

With regard to today's costs she said that as we had each won half the battle, she felt it only fair to deny either side their costs.

 

So.... I have loads of more research to do into the Preference account, the dodgy non-receipt of the DN and the laws regarding overdraft credit accounts and credit cards in relation to the CCA.

 

Any help anyone can give me will be gratefully received but for now, let's chalk up half a victory.

 

The best bit was that when I got home there was a letter from the acting solicitor enclosing by way of service their costs... which they cannot have!

 

Cheers !!

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

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Well we are two peas in a pob arn't we, me given an SJ's and you suffering them having to resubmit - amazing!

 

What was her actual ruling regarding a credit card or a current account

 

Anything I can help you with just ask

 

Kel

 

After re reading, amended first line

Edited by kel123
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Thanks kel and ss -

 

The Judge didn't really rule on whether the card was a credit card or overdraft; I think she was as confused as me!

 

What she did say was that it seemed clear that I had entered into a credit agreement but whether or not it was an enforceable debt remained to be proven... so I think she wants to see much more 'evidence' from both sides before she can make a ruling.

 

It will be interesting to see what the bank throws next... but in the meantime I will search through the whole of this site tofind everything I can about the 'preference' account, about DNs and I will read up everything I can on the CCA. I´m still not convinced about the DN because I genuinely never received one and I need to understand exactly what the difference is in relation to the CCA if one is to accept the card was an overdraft...and how an application form can be accepted as an original agreement.

 

Thank goodness I have almost two months to prepare.

 

Any advice from anyone will be very useful and I know from previous experience of caggers, that such help will be forthcoming in due course.

 

Just for today I am enjoying the fact that I was able to be coherent and polite and had the opportunity to state my case -

 

We have an awful lot of 'other' stuff going on with parents with disability and dementia so all of this is quite stresfull but with the help of others I know I'll be able to make a solid defence and hopefully win my case and enable others to do so too.

:)

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

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Sorry about my gobbledeegook in post 41, I was in a rush and tried to read and type at the same time and it came out backwards:)

 

When have they got to get their new attack in by

 

Kel

PS if I didn't say it before; well done

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Hello FDPM:)

 

Well done on getting in there and giving the other side the two

fingers up yours :D

 

If you go to search at the top of the page and hit in "prefence

accounts " you should be able to find some other threads which

will help you with your case .

 

I would think you will sleep better tonight as well ;)

 

All the best

 

Tonks:)

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Thanks Tonka and kels, they have got until early December to start their ball rolling and then I have a month to prepare my defence so in the meantime, research, research research! and loads of late nights...

 

Whereabouts are you in your case?

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

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I have gone down the Claims Management Compnay route and have a solicitor who is chasing Bank of Scotland regarding a Preference Account.

They are acting under the Consumer Credit Act.

Also, I had received a default notice under Section 87(1) of the Act from BOS which seems to be a giveaway.

There are a lot postings on this site why not refer to this;

 

Fred Bassett v Bank of Scotland/Blair Oliver Scott - Page 12 - The Consumer Forums

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... and also the pl said that they had proof of sending the DN because the computer said so.

What a stupid comment. Did the computer appear in court to give evidence?

 

Simply because it appeared on a computer screen -

* does not mean the notice was actually printed out

* does not mean the notice was actually posted (unless they obtained a certificate of posting)

* does not mean the notice was actually delivered (unless a receipt was obtained)

 

If they wish to offer in evidence the details of their procedures which ensure that the notice is at least posted then they will have to ask the court for permission to introduce hearsay evidence. I'm not an expert on this but hopefully others here will be able to expand on this point.

  • Haha 2

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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