Ropossession hearing on Monday- Need a few pointers please

[Noel905r]

Hi, as mentioned we have our repossession hearing on Monday.

I've had my head stuck in the sand for the past few months and only had the sense to face up to matters over the past few days. I know it's late in day but I was wondering if anybody could help with a few points?

 

Obviously we do not want to loose our home. I have not really spoken to our lender very much for the simple reason that I felt I had nothing to offer them regarding a payment plan. Lender is Preferred by the way and as many know Capstone look after collections for them. Yesterday my wife and I managed to put figures together and we can start repayments again next month with a little extra to go toward the arrears. What I was wondering was what is acceptable to the court ref extra payment? Arrears are quite large, around £12k. Total loan figure is around £90k although our property is worth a good bit more than that. Would an extra £50-£100 be acceptable? Or have we any other options?

I should speak to Capstone today or tomorrow but I'm worried that anything I offer them will be rejected.

Do I need any representation at the hearing? Not that I can afford anybody.

I am self employed and my wife is employed.

 

Would very grateful if somebody could help.

 

Rgds

 

Noel

Edited October 22, 2009 by Noel905r

[Dodgy Geezer]

Hi Noel.

Our resident angel Ell-enn will hopefully be along soon. She will help you with a proposal.

I have been to court more times than i care to remember and am still here, so try not to worry to much.

[Noel905r]

Thanks DG, it's not easy.

[Dodgy Geezer]

I feel for you.

However, you will be suprised at how civil and sympathetic the judge will be. Simply telling the judge what your proposals are, should be enough to get a suspended repo order. This is legally binding, and prevents the mortgage co from doing anything if you keep up payments as agreed.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, I take it you have not returned the defence forms to the court? If that is the case then you will need to take a statement with you to hand to the judge outlining your offer - I can help you with that.

 

You will also need to include a budget sheet (I have affixed the one we use to this post). When you fill it in you need to remember that the amount you are offering towards the arrears each month in addition to the normal monthly payment, is the amount left over after everything else has been paid.

 

In order to start to draft a statement for you, I need some information:

 

What was the reason for the arrears?

Is the mortgage in joint names?

Do you have any children?

Do you have a statement from the lender showing arrears? if so, how much of the amount they claim is arrears is actually monthly charges?

 

There is case law we can use that the court can consider, which gives the judge the power to order the arrears can be paid over a longer period of time than the lender would ideally like. If we can put together a good defence then hopefully you can get the possession suspended.

 

Ell

Budget Sheet.xls

[Noel905r]

Hi there, I take it you have not returned the defence forms to the court? If that is the case then you will need to take a statement with you to hand to the judge outlining your offer - I can help you with that.

 

You will also need to include a budget sheet (I have affixed the one we use to this post). When you fill it in you need to remember that the amount you are offering towards the arrears each month in addition to the normal monthly payment, is the amount left over after everything else has been paid.

 

In order to start to draft a statement for you, I need some information:

 

What was the reason for the arrears?

Is the mortgage in joint names?

Do you have any children?

Do you have a statement from the lender showing arrears? if so, how much of the amount they claim is arrears is actually monthly charges?

 

There is case law we can use that the court can consider, which gives the judge the power to order the arrears can be paid over a longer period of time than the lender would ideally like. If we can put together a good defence then hopefully you can get the possession suspended.

 

Ell

 

Hi Ell-enn, many thanks for your reply and the budget sheet.

In answer to your questions:

 

1) Reason for arrears was initially a 2 yr Vat investigation in 06. They reckoned I owed £248k. I was guilty until I could prove my innocence. All my suppliers were visited, 4 court dates - 3 cancelled the evening before, the 4th

the revenue's solicitor forgot his file. Long story short, I managed to settle for £3k as my business was wrecked and had £5k accountant fees etc. managed to get going again and the recession happened and had a few bad debtors, currently getting back on my feet but very slowly.

2)Mortgage is in joint names

3)2 children under 18

4)Currently looking for the last statement. I'm not sure I've had anything listing extra charges. I'm sure they mentioned something about £125 extra per month but will check that.

 

Rgds

[Ell-enn]

OK, I'll make a start - we can finalise over the next couple of days. Let me know if you can find a statement or anything detailing charges. The amount of arrears they claim you owe will have those arrears charges added in and therefore the total arrears is wrong - we need to point out to the judge that the true arrears are lower.

 

How many months payments do you think you have missed?

[applecart]

Can I add....

 

That in addition to the I & E, and the relevant case law; Cheltenham & Gloucester v Norgan (I think it may also be worth quoting from the FSA reguations on lenders duty to Treat Customers Fairly. Please view the FSA site at: FSA reiterates call for firms to treat customers fairly in current market conditions

 

There should be NO lender that should be seen to NOT have these principles embedded in their business practices on any regulated mortgage.

 

The regulations are there to help consumers keep a roof over their heads and stave off the high level of repossessions that Lenders previously seemed to enjoy.

 

Hope this helps : )

[Noel905r]

Thanks Applecart, I'll read up on those links later.

 

Ell-enn,

 

I had a few missed months in early 08 but gave them £3k in June 08 which I think made me one repayment in arrears. However after that I failed to give them any further money, or at least little of consequence.

So I reckon I'm maybe 14-15 months in arrears.

Current outstanding figure according to Preferred/Capstone in their last letter of Oct 20th is £14,336.83.

Extra charges -

For every month in arrears -£45 (although got 2 arrears fees in Sept 08 of £45 and £50)

Then the fee changed to a Litagation Man Fee of £115 per month.

Furthermore I had a man (very friendly I might add) call around twice and I'm sure he said he cost me £100 per visit but I see no note of this in their quarterly statements.

 

So I think extra charges total at least £1,600 - 1,800 and no doubt there's a further charge or two for the hearing, checking of occupancy, solicitor's letters, referral to solicitors etc. Incidentally, perhaps of no real importance, but the outfit that arranged the mortgage in 05 grabbed £2,200 for their trouble.

[Dodgy Geezer]

I will leave advice to the expert. I just wanted to add my moral support.

I had very similar circumstances including missed payments, arrears, charges, visits, etc. I also had Customs after me for £15k ( Vat ) going back to 1999.

I wont pretend its been an easy ride, but the thing i regret the most is doing nothing until i had to.

 

You WILL be ok. But you need to act.

 

You CAN do it.

 

IM STILL HERE.

 

Good Luck.

[Noel905r]

I'm about to talk to Preferred/Capstone. Should I suggest to them to extend the term or to offer them an extra £50 -£100 per month?

Bit nervous about calling them.

[Ell-enn]

Do you have to call them? I doubt if it will make any difference to the hearing on Monday. To be honest they won't agree to extending the term of the mortgage - but they will have to consider your offer of payment towards the arrears. However, it's not up to Capstone - ultimately the judge will have the final say.

 

If we had time we could have sent a letter to them asking them to consider various options, but it's too late to do that before Monday.

 

Ell

[applecart]

on the contrary, even at this late stage it is still worth putting an offer in to them - even on the day of the trial you can make an offer towards the arrears

 

They do not have any posssession order right now as I understand it - so you can still make an offer.

 

the strategy is to make an offer of what you can afford - if they do not accept after having taken into account your income and expenditure - th worse case scenerio is that you let the Judge know about their refusal to accept your offer on the day - you then advise of the ruling in the C&G v Norgren case and it may be that the amount you are looking to offer is reduced by the Judge on the day.

 

Please - Never be 'worried' about speaking to your lender - you say you've taken your head of the sand - so ring them up, make an offer and wait for the response - whatever they say; if not in your interest - make a note and advise on the trial date to the Judge.

 

They must be seen to treat you fairly having weighed up the facts in your personal circumstances....

 

Hope this helps

 

apple : )

[Noel905r]

Thanks all for your comments.

Well, I rang Capstone and spoke to a nice and friendly bloke who seemed sympathetic to my case and even said that I shouldn't be too worried about the hearing. He said it wouldn't be as daunting as I thought and that the whole point was to arrive at a practicable solution for all concerned. Hmmm.

Then went through a brief I and E calculation although there were some figures I couldn't be too accurate with. He said that if there was disposable income left then there was little chance of extending the term which I guess is fair enough. He also added that any decisions rest with the judge rather than Capstone at this stage as mentioned by Ell-enn.

So I've now got to decide on what exactly we can offer or more specifically what the court will accept. Although we can restart payments next month and are quite confident that maintaining the payments won't be an issue it's difficult to know what the future holds with regard to any extra payments. It should be ok but...well.

 

Ell-enn we've filled in you I & E sheet and there is some extra money left but by no means a lot. Are we allowed to have some measure of rainy day money? With kids and running a house there is always some sort of minor emergency or something that needs money.

 

Just to add that the only figures that Capstone could supply regarding the extra charges was that over the past 12 months there were nearly £1,400 worth of extra charges and fees.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Noel905r

[Dodgy Geezer]

DO NOT offer more than you can afford. If its only £20 PCM then offer that. The last thing you want to do is to be going through this again in 6 months or so because you have over stretched yourself.

What the judge will be looking for is your intentions to resume regular monthly payments as per the mortgage contract.

You can ask that the situation is reviewed in say 6 months time when you hope to be in a more favourable financial position.

[Noel905r]

DO NOT offer more than you can afford. If its only £20 PCM then offer that. The last thing you want to do is to be going through this again in 6 months or so because you have over stretched yourself.

What the judge will be looking for is your intentions to resume regular monthly payments as per the mortgage contract.

You can ask that the situation is reviewed in say 6 months time when you hope to be in a more favourable financial position.

 

Thanks, makes good sense. Will the likes of £20 per month extra be taken seriously by the court?

 

Other than my I & E sheet and my proposals what else should I take? Do I need any documentary stuff like bank statements, pay slips or evidence of my business improving etc?

I presume I should highlight to the court the extra charges that have been applied by Capstone to my account?

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, I can do a statement for you to take to court and post it on here tomorrow morning - is that OK?

[Noel905r]

That would be fantastic. Although my hearing is at midday and we'll be leaving around 9.30 as we're a couple of hours away from the court.

Other than what I mentioned do I need to take anything else with me?

 

Rgds.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, affixed is the statement for court. You need to fill in the information where there are XXX's at the top (the info will be on the court papers) and also where your names are in the body of the statement - (remove the XX's).

 

You will need 3 copies of the statement and 3 copies of the budget sheet. On the top of the budget sheet write the claim number on the top left hand side and Appendix 1 on the top right hand side.

 

Staple three separate lots of the statement and budget sheet together. You need one for the judge, one for the other side and one for yourself to refer to in court.

 

I have also affixed a copy of the Norgan case law for you to read - it is not to be handed over in court the judge will be well aware of the case law! It's only so you understand what it is.

 

You should arrive at the court in plenty of time and ask the usher is they will give your statement to the judge before the hearing - don't worry if they say they can't interrupt you can give it to him in the room.

If there are any free legal representatives there, approach them and ask for their advice. They can accompany you into the hearing if you wish. Sometimes the representative for the other side will ask to speak to you, it is up to you whether you do or not. If you do, and you feel intimidated at any time, just end the conversation by saying you would rather wait for the judge to decide.

 

 

The hearing will take place in a private room with just the judge, you and the representative from the other side. It is usually conducted around a table, like a meeting. The public are not admitted. The judge will know that you are nervous and they are usually very good at guiding you through the process.

The judge will address the other side first as it is they who are bringing the action - don't interrupt him/her when they are speaking. When he comes to you, you should say "Sir/madam may I give you my statement" and just hand it over.

 

The whole procedure should take no more than 5 or 10 minutes.

 

 

Any questions, just shout.

 

 

Ell

Noel905r Statement.doc

Cheltenham & Gloucester v Norgan.doc

[Noel905r]

Ell-enn, that is so helpful of you, I'm overwhelmed to say the least. I had no idea of the protocol required, ie 3 copies etc.

I'm certainly a lot more optimistic about the whole thing.

 

Just one question, what is seen as realistic with regard to the amount of money on top of the normal monthly payment? Ideally an extra year or two on the loan term would be good but I think you mentioned it would be too late for that. Is £50 per month realistic? At least until matters improve?

 

Again, many, many thanks for your assistance.

[jansus]

hope everything goes ok for you.

[mike032]

hi sorry if in wrong place please help advice needed

we are due to go to court to lose our house.we went bankrupt and obviously this is part of it.What i need to know is is the coucil liable to find us somewere as we have 4 kids all under 11

also they said they would have to see weather we made our selves intentionally homeless and that they would put us in a hostle.we were told we need a 3bed house if found not intentionally homeless. would we be entitled to a 3 bed in hostel while they looked into our claim.that basic said they would go through us with a fine hairbrush accounts etc mortgage etc.I have no problem with them doing that but also said social services would have to get involved to .Are they just trying to scare us to go private so its out of there hands as that what hes hoping for but as we went bankrupt theres no change of that.ANY HELP WELCOMED SORRY IF IN WRONG PLACE

[Noel905r]

Sorry about your situation Mike. Maybe start a new thread? Should get more response.

 

Just in the door. With regard to my own situation I have excellent news, really friendly judge and a very amiable legal guy representing Preferred/Capstone. They were most impressed with Ell-enn's paperwork and repo claim has been suspended.

I'll post a more detailed update later on.

Happy days!!

Edited October 26, 2009 by Noel905r

[mkb]

Excellent

[Ell-enn]

I'm so pleased for you, well done for being so brave - I know how nervous you were