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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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DeFault Notice re Cr Cd


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I wouldn't worry...they'll pass it on to the relevant department. :)

Enjoy the peace while it lasts...

Elsa x

Hi

 

Thanks Elsa, yes it has been peaceful!!

 

This is the letter i mentioned before that [problem] sent me, any thoughts anyone?

 

Re CCA request - I haven't had any reply at all to this, timescale is up, so am about to do the account dispute letter to loyds?

 

thanks

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Hi

 

I have received a monthly statement! and it says under 'account information' that 'account is seriously overdue...we have instructed dca MHA collections.'

 

any ideas on this, and above post, and what do you think i should do next?

 

(Still no news at all re CCA request, and have already sent the 'No reply to cca request' letter to [problem] and the a/c dispute letter to loydsrtsb when the time was up. (the [problem] letter above was received before a/c in dispute))

 

thanks

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Hi

 

 

Do you think the account is now 'terminated' following the [problem] 'formal demand' for payment of the account balance, and now it has gone to a dca?

 

thanks

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Hi

 

Have received the 'standard' loydsrtsb response to s78 request, (same as some other caggers have had):

 

1 - standard s78 letter; saying enclosed 'copy of executed agreement, copy of current terms and conditions, statement of account...satisfied our obligation...no requirement to send copy of signed agreement...endeavourimg to locate the signed copy....wouldn't have opened without sight of signed agreement...no further correspondence..having satisfied s78 agreement is fully enforceable' etc.

Also attached, an Appendix re 'your rights under s78', CNCD regs re not having to provide photocopy of signed agreement, amended agreements.

2 - computer generated/print out conditions re asset, asset gold, asset platinum, with my name and address i presume 'inserted' on the 'template' conditions whilst on the computer and then printed out.

3 - computer generated 'template' 'current' conditions, again with name/address as above.

(my name and address on both 2 and 3 are the same font type, size, spacing)

4 - copy of latest monthly statement signed and dated by them.

 

no copy of any application form, no signature, or anything else.

 

 

Anyone any thoughts/suggestions please, thanks.

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I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

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Thanks cerberusalert. I added a couple of paras to scotts letter re oft 'meaning of true copy'?

 

I have now received a letter from 'inhouse' dca mh a saying that 'instructed by loyds to recover arrears.....can pay them or at loyds branch....if no immediate payment solicitors [problem] may commence legal proceedings.......if no payment and judgement obtained will be recorded in public register....may experience severe difficulties obtaining future credit...if unable to pay telephone today with proposals'

 

will send them the letter you suggested above in post no.29? If not ok, please comment. should i add the 'doorstep call' letter to it? thanks.

 

Also, re DN your post no.21 - a couple of caggers have said that a bank holiday counts as a full/clear day re 14 day period. any further thoughts on this?

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will send them the letter you suggested above in post no.29? If not ok, please comment. should i add the 'doorstep call' letter to it? thanks.
Yes send it & yes include the doorstep bit.

Also, re DN your post no.21 - a couple of caggers have said that a bank holiday counts as a full/clear day re 14 day period. any further thoughts on this?
If a Bank Holiday or weekend falls within the time allowed for postal service it cannot be included, ie if they posted the DN on a Fri, the Sat and Sun is ignored and the time starts from the Mon unless it's a Bank Holiday then it will be the Tues, so for first class delivery it will be 5 + 14 days if posted on a Fri. 6 + 14 days if posted on a Fri and there was a Bank Holiday Monday. Also a specific date must be stated to remedy the default, just stating 14 days or 21 days from the date of the letter is not enough.
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thanks C

 

Yes send it & yes include the doorstep bit.

If a Bank Holiday or weekend falls within the time allowed for postal service it cannot be included, ie if they posted the DN on a Fri, the Sat and Sun is ignored and the time starts from the Mon unless it's a Bank Holiday then it will be the Tues, so for first class delivery it will be 5 + 14 days if posted on a Fri. 6 + 14 days if posted on a Fri and there was a Bank Holiday Monday. Also a specific date must be stated to remedy the default, just stating 14 days or 21 days from the date of the letter is not enough.................the bank hol in my case was during the '14 day period', not the service period, so it counts as a full/clear day? My dn remedy date then should've been the 9th at least, and not the 10th at least as you said in post 21?

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If the DN was posted 2nd class which they normally are you could not have received it until the 28th. The letter was dated Fri 21st which means it could not have got into the postal system before Mon 24th, allow 4 days for postal service = 28th. Then you have to have a minimum of 14 days to remedy which brings it to the 11th so it is 3 days short, even if it was posted first class it would be 2 days short.

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Re cca request - have rec'd a copy of signed application form (single A4) with some conditions on the back. But, it looks like the conditions have been copied onto the back of the photocopy of the appn form, and may not be part of the appn form! what do you think?

 

any thoughts/suggestions please? thanks

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Send them this;

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

RE: Agreement/Account number

 

Thank you for your response to my letter dated xxxxxx 2009, making a formal request for a true copy of the original credit agreement for the above account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

The documents you supplied me appear to be no more than an application form, and as such are not a satisfactory response to my request. Nowhere on the front of the document is there any reference to the prescribed terms and conditions that such an agreement must contain. I must assume that these are unconnected documents and once again inadequate to satisfy your obligations.

 

I also I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

As you are aware you are obliged to provide me with a true copy of my agreement as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974. and I consider that you have failed to comply with my request for these documents

 

 

Under the terms of the above Act, a creditor has 12 working days to provide the requested documents. This deadline has now passed and I have not received the requested documents from you.

 

As I am sure you are aware, an agreement that does not contain all of the prescribed terms, and/or is not signed by the debtor, is completely unenforceable & I therefore consider that this account is in dispute with immediate effect & it follows that all payments to this account are suspended forthwith.

 

I draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.

You must not pass this account to any third party.

You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

You must not issue a default notice on this account

I hereby give you notice that if you proceed with any of the above actions, I will file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

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Thanks Cerberusalert

 

on the appn form (above post #40) it says 'this will form the agreement.....on the terms overleaf'. If the above conditions are the ones overleaf, would this then be enforceable?

 

thanks

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thanks

 

Yes but there is no link to them ...........isn't the link the '...terms overleaf'?

and the prescribed terms are not "within the 4 corners of the signed agreement"............does this mean then that the signature and the prescribed terms must be on the same page?.

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The Act states that the prescribed terms must be within the four corners of the signed agreement so a pedant would argue that it should be on the same page as the signature. But remember you have the double whammy with the defective DN and it being posted on the Fri of a Bank Holiday weekend, so even if the CCA was seen as enforceable the agreement has been unlawfully rescinded because of the defective DN. ;)

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Hi

 

Also, the account no. on the appn form is different to the existing acc no., as the card was changed/'upgraded' since then. does this make any difference?

 

shall i still send the above letter?

 

many thanks.

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