MrPromiscous V Barclays Bank

[sandbag]

Hi Mr P - i think all the defences are almost the same - absolute guff! Good luck Sandra.

[Johnsworld]

Hi Mr Promiscuous. I'm glad I stumbled onto your thread because I have just received an offer letter identical to the one you got and was wondering what the next step was. Did you use the template letter to accept conditionally? I've had to push my daughter to carry this on because she is scared of the prospect of going to court so I hope that your experience to date will encourage her. Thanks for detailing the correspondence so thoroughly. I shall follow your progress with interest and wish you luck.

Regards,

John

[margimarg]

Hi great thread very helpfull,am about to start court,can you advise me which spreadsheet you used,many thanks

[mrpromiscous]

Hey guy's I'm glad your finding my thread helpful, I've tried to be as detailed as possible so this could be used by others as a "step by step" reference guide. Feel free to copy/paste as much as you like !!!

[mrpromiscous]

John this the exact letter I sent to Barclays regarding their partial offer, obviously you'll have to enter your own personal details, hope this helps if you hav'nt already sent one fella

 

 

5th August 2006

RE : Response to partial repayment of charges

Reference : ********

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write in response to your letter of 28th August 2006.

Regarding your offer of £850.00, I am prepared to accept this as partial payment towards the full amount I am claiming however I stress that only a full refund will be acceptable and I will still be pursuing the remaining amount.

Yours Sincerely,

MrPromiscous

[mrpromiscous]

Margi I'm probably going to seem a little less helpful on this one because the thing is I had to use Microsoft Works because I don't have Excel so unless your using Works I can't help. Although I'm sure there is a spreadsheet template in the library because I looked at it months ago. As a pointer though you should include the following headings in your spreadsheet :

 

1. Date Charge Occurred

2. Description Of Charge

3. Charge Amount

 

When the claim goes as far as court AND NOT BEFORE add these columns :

 

4. Days Since Offence

5. Interest @ 8% APR

 

Hope this goes some way to helping you along too.

[mrpromiscous]

Ok while I've still got feeling in my finger tips I'll get back to my thread lol

I recieved a copy of Barclays defence today..... It is a complete carbon copy of everyone elses so there really is no need for me to copy it out on here. The case has now been moved to my local court of Romford and I have untill the 29th November in which to fill out and return the AQ and £100 court fee.

[Michael Browne]

In reply to your PM, you can request Standard Disclosure:

 

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track. This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

However, the continuing problem is, (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers), that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. This would bring a rapid end, not only to this litigation, but would also likely bring an end to much of the litigation in progress against other high-street banks.

[mrpromiscous]

For reference the above post is relating to the ideal text to enter within section G of the AQ questionaire

[Johnsworld]

Thanks again Mr Promiscuous. Your post arrived, like the cavalry, in the nick of time. Have discussed with daughter who has decided, as you did, to accept the offer in the interim and take it to court. No Deal!!

Regards,

John.

[mrpromiscous]

Good good, and a very wise choice...... Why have a piece when you can eat the whole cake !!!

[mrpromiscous]

Alil update.... well theres nothing new happened to be honest... I phoned the court last monday to make sure they had recieved my AQ and payment which they had so just a waiting game for a date now I guess. Bit annoying after all the stalling tactics by Barclays that now I have to wait for the courts to get their finger out but hey spoze its worth it in the end. Whats the avarage time before getting a date ???

 

MrP

[Johnsworld]

Hi Mr P,

glad to hear you are still persevering. Your updates have been inspirational and I guess we are all grateful for them. My daughter's correspondence with Barclays has mirrored your own and they did make her an offer as a gesture of goodwill. She has been so tempted to accept it and I have been trying to convince her to persevere as you have done. I have persuaded her to send the letter which you kindly forwarded, accepting it as an interim offer, to see what their response is. I just wanted to say thanks because I'm sure she would have given up otherwise.

Regards,

John.

[mrpromiscous]

John your words are well recieved, its great that my time on here is helping you and hopefully others although I dont usually hear about it so thank you. I can certainly understand her eagerness to accept espcially this close to xmas but good things come to those who wait eh. Hang in there and i'll continue to update this thread when ever something new happens. Good luck.

 

MrP

[mrpromiscous]

Wicked I've finally got my court hearing date !!!! Only thing is its not until the 25th June doh ! The letter from Judge Bowles states that he feels the hearing should take no longer then 3 hours.... strange because I said it would take no longer than 1 hour as we have all done.... I dont know if this is significant though. It also instructs me to "file and serve by the 2nd Feb a schedule setting out each and every alleged unlawful charge stating how it is alleged the same is unlawful". It instructs Barclays to "file and serve a counter-schedule by the 16th Feb".

So this is the first time I have been taken this far so please anyone who knows the score what exactly the court need from me now. They should already be in possesion of a schedule of charges so do I simply send another copy ??? Also what do I need to do to satisfy the second part of their instruction quoted above ?!?

 

MrP

[mrpromiscous]

Guys any thoughts ?!?

 

MrP

[mrpromiscous]

Why do I get the feeling i've been sent to coventry ?!?!?

Surely somebody has some ideas....pleeeeeeeeeeeeease !!!! Not long till the deadline given by the judge now.... tik tok tik tok

 

MrP

[Michael Browne]

See here for 2 Statements Of Evidence depending on whether the banks defence is for a Servivce or pre-estimated cost

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57707-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html#post450746

[Johnsworld]

Hi Mr. P,

 

Sorry to hear you aren't getting the support that seemed so available when we all began our quest for justice. I reckon that the momentum has been lost of late and maybe that's because we're the tail end and everyone else has got their money and cleared off. I hope not because it's a long and lonely road up against the big boys.

 

The worst thing about this site is that there is so much information and it is difficult to find the bits you want or to be sure you've got the right bits.

 

It seems to me that they want your excel file of charges and interest, copies of your statements showing the charges you are contesting and the court bundle containing your legal arguments. I can't see that you would be expected to argue each charge seperately.

 

At least you know that two of us are watching and supporting you.

 

Regards,

 

John.

[GaryH]

Wicked I've finally got my court hearing date !!!! Only thing is its not until the 25th June doh ! The letter from Judge Bowles states that he feels the hearing should take no longer then 3 hours.... strange because I said it would take no longer than 1 hour as we have all done.... I dont know if this is significant though. It also instructs me to "file and serve by the 2nd Feb a schedule setting out each and every alleged unlawful charge stating how it is alleged the same is unlawful". It instructs Barclays to "file and serve a counter-schedule by the 16th Feb".

So this is the first time I have been taken this far so please anyone who knows the score what exactly the court need from me now. They should already be in possesion of a schedule of charges so do I simply send another copy ??? Also what do I need to do to satisfy the second part of their instruction quoted above ?!?

 

MrP

 

Hi Mr P,

 

First thing you need is your schedule of charges.

 

Then, you need to provide evidence that the charges are unlawful. The statement of evidence will do the job for that part. Barclays defence is tricky though, as they don't really plead a specific basis on which they defend the claim - ie whether the charges are a service charge or a genuine pre-estimate. Here's a statement I modified to suit Barclays claims http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/36692-peter-rabbit-barclays-2.html#post492578.

 

Also, could you post up the exact wording of the courtsd order please, just to make sure there's nothing else.

[GaryH]

Sorry to hear you aren't getting the support that seemed so available when we all began our quest for justice. I reckon that the momentum has been lost of late and maybe that's because we're the tail end and everyone else has got their money and cleared off. I hope not because it's a long and lonely road up against the big boys.

 

I'm sure this is not the case John. In fact on the contrary, I think its clear that the momentum is actually building of late, helped along by all the excellent positive media coverage.

 

You may now have noticed that we have over 100,000 registered members. That is fantastic and the bigger that this group gets the more weight the campaign carries. It does however, bring some problems in that the number of threads is growing at a very high rate and it is difficult to keep up at times. We currently have around 15 moderaters and 25 site helpers on the team, so trying to keep 100,000 members happy is not always an easy task! Another thing you've got to remember is that the site is run by volenteers and the people here put in a hell of a lot of their own free time. If you look at the 'users online' part of the forum, you'll notice that Bankfodder, for instance, is online pretty much constantly alot of the time.

 

If you feel your not getting the support you need then its not for want of trying, believe me. Should a problem arise where you are not sure of something more complex and you don't get an answer on your thread, then do as Mr P just did - PM a site helper with a link.

[Glenn UK]

FWIW

 

I had a day off and only got the pm for assistance last night, it was my wifes birthday hope no one minds? PS I'm not event a site helper or mod!

 

Only joking, lol

 

I see Michael and Gary have both commented not much more to say without seeing the exact wording, i might produce the statements showing the charges and include a statement about how and why i feel each type of charges is unlawful.

 

Mr.P i second whoever it was said post up the exact wording to make sure we all understand whats going on and we will help best we can.

 

Regards

 

Glenn

 

PS don't take me too seriously I'm sitting here getting ready to go to court this AM for non compliance under Sec 7 DPA.

[mrpromiscous]

wow you lot are like buses lol Really apprieciate all the feed back guys and my isolation is a distant memory !!! Glenn outta curiosity how did you get on this morning, I've entered a claim against Woolwich for non-compliance recently regarding my mortgage ERC. OK i'll start by typing up the letter in full....drumroll.... :

 

District Judge Bowles has considered the statements of case and allocation questionaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

The hearing of the claim will take place at 10.30 on the 25th June 2007 at Romford County Court, 2a Oaklands Ave, Romford, Essex, RM1 4DP and should take no longer than 3 hours.

THE COURT MUST BE INFORMED IMMEDIATELY IF THE CASE IS SETTLED BY AGREEMENT BEFORE THE HEARING DATE.

Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents (including any experts' report) on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing.

The original documents shall be brought to the hearing.

Claimant do file and serve by 2nd February 2007 a schedule setting out each and every alleged unlawful charge stating how it is alleged the same is unlawful.

Defendant do file and serve a counter-schedule by 16th February 2007.

Date 15th January 2007.

My initial take on what was required was obviously yet another schedule of charges but it was the 2nd request that stumped me, the part asking me to state how each was unlawful. As for the schedule of charges I have already supplied the court with a copy when I filed online however its no trouble to send a current one I suppose with current info relating to the interest accumilated since October when this all atarted. For the 2nd part of the judges orders I would have thought the para contained within my POC on MCOL would have been satisfactory so I dont see why I'm being asked for either really ?!? The para from the particulars of claim i'm refering to is :

 

The Term permitting the

Defendant to levy such charges is

unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in

Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Unfair

Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law.

Although admittedly this is extremly basic. I read your statement of evidence templates yesterday Gary after Michael Brown gave me the link to them but I was'nt 100% sure if thats what I needed to send and which one was relevent to me because as you quite rightly say Barclays do not defend their charges as anything other than I agreed to pay them as outlined in the T&C's. I've posted the BArclays defence previously I believe on the 1st or 2nd page of this thread. But to recap on your advice fella's are we all of the general opinion then that if I use the templated statement of evidence kindly provided by Gary along with an attached current schedule of charges then this will cover all directions of Judge Bowles ???

 

MrP

As for the complete court bundle inclusive of statements I was under the impression I had untill 2 weeks before the hearing to produce these, I certainly hope so because I dont have the full set of statements anymore, an SAR has been sent to Barclays and aknowledged but could still be 2 weeks before I recieve them !

[GaryH]

You need the Barclays-modded statement I linked above, plus a schedule. That satisfies the part that requests you set out how the charges are unlawful.

 

Additionally, you have been issued with the standard SMT directions to provide all evidence 14 days before the hearing. As the hearing is in June and Barclays have to submit their counter schedule by Febuary, its highly unlikely that it'll get that far. If it does, you'll need the Basic court bundle from the templates library for that part.

 

Upon the deadline for Barclays to submit a counter-schedule, if they haven't then you need to let the court know about it. See these letters if this is the case. Amend to suit - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/58011-sc-m-court-bundle.html

[mrpromiscous]

And I have just checked all the posts in this thread and infact I did'nt post a copy of Barclays defence so I will now for clarity :

 

DEFENCE

1. The particulars of claim do not provide details or particulars of the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. To the extent it is alleged that the claimant incurred bank charges on his/her account for unauthorised borrowings (whether "unpaid referral fees" or any other such fees) the defendant puts the claimant to strict proof of each charge and the date thereof.

2.The defendants standard terms and conditions give the claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn where an overdraught limit or where the claimant exceeds his/her authorised overdraught limit).

2. If and to the extent it is the claimants case that the failure to make the necersary payments and/or failure to remain within authorised overdraught limts failure to arrange an authorised overdraught constitute a breach of the terms applying to the account and that the contractural entitlement to debit charges from the claimants account constitutes a liquidated damages clause, the same is denied. The charges constitute payments the claimant agreeded to make by reason of the terms and conditions of his/her account and were consideration for the defendant advancing credit to the claimant, which the defendant was under no obligation to advance. The defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the claimant incurred the overdraught.

4. Accordingly, it is denied that the legal principles relating to the liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternitively it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999 (particularly but without limitation to, paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2), or are in breach of the Unfair (contracts) terms act 1977, or are unreasonable within the meaning of s.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (or indeed any other provisions).

 

5. Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the claimants account.

 

6. If and to the extent the claimant incurred charges on his/her account, this was caused by the claimant having gone into overdraught without having agreed with the defendant an authorised overdraught facility or to increase the overdraught facility and/or his/her failure to make payments to bring the balance of the account back into credit.

 

7. It is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforceable and that the defendant was entitled to debit the same. Accordingly the claimant is not entitled to a declaration by the court as to the enforceability of the said charges.

 

8. The defendant denies that it is liable to the claimant for the sums claimed and interest pleaded by the claimant or at all. In the alternative, which is denied, if the said charges amount to sums payable on breach of contract, it is averred that the charges asserted by the claimant to have been applied to the account prior to 9th October 2000 would not be recoverable for reason of exhaustion of time in bringing contractual claims from the date of accrual, pursuant to the Limitations Act 1980.

 

9. In the alternative, and without prejudice to paragraph 6 above, if (which isdenied) the said charges and interest or any part thereof are unlawful or unenforceable as alleged by the claimant or at all, the defendant has nonetheless suffered loss and damage as a consequence of the claimants breach of contract in allowing the account to go into unauthorised overdraught. Accordingly, in the event that the defendant is unable to rely on its express entitlement to enforce the charges as set out at paragraphs 2 to 3 above, it will seek to recover to the extent necersary such loss and damage as it actually suffered, which will not necessarily sums against any liability owed hereunder to the claimant.

 

Barclays Bank Plc

 

Bloody hell I really must take some touch typing lessons !