Advice re Daughters Accident

[PsychoTony]

Thanks andie, so far my mail list now includes 5 local councillors, 3 MPs, 5 MEPs, HSE, CAPT, RoSPA and the CAB.

 

So far 2 councillors have responded and want to be kept up to date with progress.

 

I will await the HSE and RIDDOR findings with interest.

 

Cheers

Tony

[PsychoTony]

Things moving quite nicely now with this and most of the MPs making the right noises and referals to HSE etc...

 

Best response so far being:

 

Dear Mr Meese,

 

Thank you for your email of 7 August, regarding the terrible accident involving you daughter and the lack of First Aid assistance. I am sorry to hear of the incident and hope that your daughter is recovering well.

 

As you suggest at present the Health and Safety (First-Aid) Regulations 1981 do not require organisations to provide first aid assistance to anyone on premises apart from actual employees. However, many organisations do provide such service for others, and I note the Health and Safety Executive strongly recommends that employers include the public and others on their premises when making their assessment of first aid needs.

 

I understand this advice is the result of a review conducted by the HSE into provisions for non-employees. This review noted that the majority organisations do consider members of the public when assessing their first aid needs especially those with a large public presence, for example airports, shopping centres and places of entertainment, with many rightly feeling they have a 'moral obligation' to cater for the first aid needs of the public. In England and Wales, certain public entertainment venues may require a license from a local authority and where appropriate, the local authorities can make it a condition of granting a license that adequate first aid cover is arranged for all those in attendance.

 

I am surprised and disappointed the establishment takes the view not to assist those injured for fear of litigation; (especially in light of the fact it issues hot drinks with no lid with little thought for the possible consequences – an issue in which MacDonald’s have faced a number of high profile suits).

 

Under Article 137 of the EC Treaty the European Union has implemented a number of measures in the field of safety and health at work which primarily deals with matters relating directly to employees. In light of your experiences I have written to Commissioner Spidla, EU Commissioner for employment and social affairs, and Lord MacKenzie the UK Minister responsible for the Health and Safety Executive. I will be pleased to revert to you when receive replies.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Graham Watson MEP

Liberal Democrat Member of the European Parliament for South West England and

 

will keep you posted on any further developments.

[rickyd]

brilliant response, lets hope more people start to think like this. What a turn up eh? Hot drinks without lids....

 

Well done Tony, keep this going you're getting real support here!

[SAAW]

I would start by asking the pub to produce their risk assessment for 1st aid? It is recomended in legislation that 1 1st aider should be provided for up to 50 people unless the risk assessemnts requires more due to the type of enviroment i.e. a childs play area should be provided with some form of first aid. Also was this ever entered into their accident book or did they refuse to do that also?

[PsychoTony]

Hi All,

 

Things still moving on, all be it a little slow for my liking.

 

The Local Council HSE Safety Officer has performed an inspection and is investigating as there are number of concerns. I can't say more as I am awaiting update from them. It was interesting to hear from the Inspector however that they claim to have a policy insisting on Lids and produced some poor quality CCTV footage of the day before my daughters accident and footage from the day after that appears to show lids being issued but they have mis-laid the CCTV tape for the day in question!!

 

I have also recieved a further reply from Graham Watson

 

Dear Mr Meese,

 

I write further to my email of 12 August regarding your daughter’s accident in a fun-pub and the lack of first aid assistance.

 

I have received an interesting reply from Commissioner Spidla, the EU Commissioner for Employment and social affairs, and I attach a copy for your perusal. The Commissioner notes under Europe wide legislation on health and safety (Directive 89/391/EC) that when employers conduct a health and safety risk assessment they must take the presence of other people into account with a view to determining the first-aid measures required in such situations. It appears that UK legislation which may only recommend first aid for non-employees on premises may fall short of this legal requirement, and I am pleased that the Commission are now investigating this matter further. I will of course be happy to update you more when I receive any further information.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Graham Watson MEP

Liberal Democrat Member of the European Parliament for South West England and Gibraltar

 

Will keep you posted of any further developments.

 

Cheers

Tony

[rickyd]

Hi Tony, I'm dismayed at the delays you're facing here, but glad to hear you're still chasing them.

 

Its odd that the video evidence is missing isn't it? But since it's required to prove their point it's absence doesn't exactly help their defence.

 

Hang in there, you've got them on the run!

[Mossycat]

I would start by asking the pub to produce their risk assessment for 1st aid? It is recomended in legislation that 1 1st aider should be provided for up to 50 people unless the risk assessemnts requires more due to the type of enviroment i.e. a childs play area should be provided with some form of first aid. Also was this ever entered into their accident book or did they refuse to do that also?

 

I'd start by learning the law if I was you.

 

THERE IS NO, REPEAT NO legislation that forces a company to have first aid for customers, nor do they have to do a risk assessment for the public. What you are quoting is for employees, the OP was NOT an employee but a customer.

 

Do not confuse recomendations and suggestions with what the law actually says.

 

Mossy

[2ltr16valve]

My GP was successfully sued by an accident victim as the doctor had to cut the patients jeans in order to treat his leg, which had an artery slashed in an accident. Blood was pouring everywhere, as you can imagine.

 

In cutting the jeans (in a hurry), the GP nicked the skin of the patient and that is what she got sued for, as well as the jeans.

 

She could, of course, just left him, and she told me of a number of health care professionals who do just that because of litigation.

 

When I was a student nurse, we were told that the first thing to do when you see an accident is let someone else deal with it.

 

 

Agree mate, I am a student nurse now (already have army med training, long story) ... and we are told, if you are identifiable then help... if not, walk away.... inform 999 but do not get involved.

 

I have personally helped at a lot of RTC's, and been lucky. Had to do some very borderline things, being on the street as well.... but the patients been grateful.

 

 

We had a nurse sued for giving cpr, chest compressions and broke two ribs.... patient sued them ... had cpr not been given patient would be dead ! go figure !

 

Luckly for us, Royal College of Nursing membership Royal College of Nursing (RCN) : nursing news, professional issues and advice for nurses We are covered for upto £3 Million for professional negligence