Help needed with BoS credit card agreement

[Bazooka Boo]

Hmm, scan it using the recommended sites, and just post it, I also have great difficulty making my agreements readable using photobucket, but to be honest if they have sent you documentation which even you are unable to legibly read then it is deemed unenforceable.

 

BOS, which I am assuming you mean, blair oliver and scott, are the 'in house' debt collection agency used by Bank Of Scotland,

 

To be really sure and to be able to give good solid advice, the reply you had for your CCA needs to be scanned and posted on here for others to look at.

 

But, a topic I am very familiar with and well versed in is Statute Barred Debts, 'SO' if you are very very sure that this alleged debt is as old as you say it is, and there has been 'NO' payment or acknowledgement within the "first" 6 years (5 in Scotland) of the account being in default (you not paying or acknowledging 'in writing' that you owe the debt) Then the debt is most definitely Staute Barred, and after sending them the letter stating this they should not continue any legal collection activity!

 

Boo;)

[Bazooka Boo]

Hi, referring to my previous post ref SB debts, has there been a time at all where you didn't pay anything toward this debt?

 

IE; has there been a six year period where you didn't pay anything nor acknowledge the debt?

[Bazooka Boo]

Ok not to worry, that counts SB out of the question, the way ahead now is for someone else who knows CCA's and whether yours are enforceable or not.

 

At least you have tried to keep to your payments. That letter they sent telling you that they were now going to seek court action, in my view is them trying to bully you and exploit your lack of knowledge in an attempt to get more money from you.

 

Have you ever come to an agreement with them of how much to pay, or have you just paid them what they have told you to?

 

My apologies if I am already covering ground you have already crossed, but have you, personally, sat down and done an Income & Expenditure (I&E) list, to see exactly what disposable income you do have?

 

Once you do this, you should then divide that up between your creditors, if it only works out a £5 a month payment to some of them, then that's what you pay them.

 

If they are not happy, tell them to take you to court, that way then you will be able to show the judge your I&E list and what you can comfortably afford to pay them each month, and they will just have to live with it!

 

The simple fact that you have been making attempts at paying off this debt massively goes in your favour, it sounds like they have been piling on interest and charges, you could ask them for a 'statement of account', which will be cheaper than a SAR which will cost you a tenner. And that will then show you exactly what they have been adding to your account, and if they have been adding charges, you can claim those back, if they are still adding interest, then you can tell them to stop all interest on the account.

 

Try not to worry, all is not lost, it may take a little while, but it's you back in the driving seat not them!

 

Boo;)

[Bazooka Boo]

Someone will view them soon enough, photogii is usually quite good with CCA's, but just hold fire for a while...someone will pick up on it soon enough, basically every time you get a reply to your thread it goes straight to the top of all the posts in the relevant section, if you want a quick answer you could always try posting a link to this thread, in the relevant banking section...

For example:Halifax Bank and Bank of Scotland - The Consumer Forums

[Bazooka Boo]

No-one has answered any letters we've sent, we just receive threats with doorstep visits from DCA's and court action! I can't cope any longer if things are'nt sorted soon I'm afraid I will leave.

 

In response to their empty threats of a doorstep visit, send the clowns this:Letter used when DCA threatens doorstep visit.

 

Give them the template letter linked below through the letterbox or chained door.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resour...ep-visit-.html

 

Tell them to leave as you have nothing to discuss and all communication must be in writing.

 

Tell them you will call the police if they don't leave immediately.

 

Remain calm and polite at all times.

 

Walk away from the door so the visitor cannot try and talk to you.

 

If they don't leave, call the police to report that you are being harassed and the visitor refuses to leave.

 

And don't worry about them, these threats are computer generated, if there isn't any human input to their computer then it automatically prints of the next threatogramme on the specified time, just shallow empty threats designed to intimidate you and exploit the debtors lack of knowledge and hoping you will buckle and just pay up whatever they tell you too!

 

Postgii may be the best person to ask about CCA's?

[Bazooka Boo]

With reference to Shadow's post MM here are a few links that you may like to read, and may help you in your complaint:

Banking Code Standards Board

 

Banking Code Standards Board

 

HELPDESK ENQUIRIES

 

If you have a problem with your financial service provider and would like information on how to complain or need assistance in understanding your rights under the Banking Codes, please contact our Helpdesk.

 

Call 0845 230 9694, or email [email protected]

 

 

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

[Bazooka Boo]

No worries, were not the ones harassing you, take all the time you need, believe me they can wait, and they will do!!

 

If your not up to it on Friday then leave it until you are able, but in your own time come back to us and we can assist and help you out! Good luck;)

Edited August 13, 2009 by Bazooka Boo
Drunken typo!!

[Bazooka Boo]

Just taken a quick look, the first page from Sharklaycard reads OK, but I cannot read the other two pages of it as it is very blurred?

 

The letter from Calders:mad:

 

Yes....let me choose my words carefully here.

All the time they are applying interest to this alleged debt, you won't pay it off, no matter how small a % they might think it is.

 

My other point is that sharklaycard's in house DCA is Mercers, and another trading name of Mercers, is Calders!

 

So I would assume that you debt is still with sharklaycard, which is why they believe they can still add on interest.

 

I personally would tell them in no uncertain terms that if they are still going to apply interest, you will withhold all payments and report them to the FOS OFT, and trading standards.

[Bazooka Boo]

It certainly isn't the best of copies, granted it can be read in places, but it is supposed to be perfectly legible otherwise it is deemed unenforceable, my advice would be to send them the following, edit to suit, and print your name don't sign it, again everything via recorded delivery.

 

Further to your recent letter, I must again advise you of the following. Further to my request for a copy of the signed CCA you supplied me with a document that was not legible and therefore does not comply with the following regulations:-

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

 

I am also of the opinion that the copy of the agreement, whilst illegible, also does not comply with the conditions set out by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.61.(1) which states that an agreement must contain certain prescribed terms, the Consumer Credit Act ( Agreements) Regulations 1983 s.6 sets out how these terms should be contained with in one single document and if not, is not enforceable by the court Consumer credit Act 1974 s.127(3) , recent case law Wilson V Hurstanger Neutral Citation Number: [2007] EWCA Civ 299.

Until I receive a clear, legible copy of the alleged CCA, this account remains in dispute and no further action can be taken.

 

Ignore their empty threat of 5 days to 'cough up or else'!

 

It is designed to have the exact effect it is having on you, too worry you silly, bully and intimidate you.

 

And if they ever did have enough money in the kitty to take you to court, then a judge would be very sympathetic toward you, this is not a priority by any means.

 

Once you send them that letter, they will send one back saying that they believe the letter reply they sent to you does comply and they will not stop collection activity and will probably sell it on, so you should have this one ready:D

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with ***DCA*** and has been since ***Date***

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As ***DCA*** is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to ***DCA*** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as ***DCA*** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If ***DCA***chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

As I say, this is not a priority at all, by any stretch of the imagination!

It is simply greedy people getting well above their station thinking they somehow have the power to run around sending threatening letters to anyone that might owe a little of our banks frivolous money, and bully them into submission to pay money back they either don't have or simply can't.

 

I have to go out else I would edit a letter to suit your needs a little better, but I was thinking of editing the 'hardship' leter in light of your OH medical circumstances, in the hope that the vultures would go find an easier prey for a while and give you some breathing space, if when I get back no-one else has come up with something I'll try and do it for you, or at the very least I can give you the bones of it and you can have your input..

 

Until then, try not to worry about them,

 

 

Boo;)

[Bazooka Boo]

OK, there is no need to panic, all that has happened is that they have failed to update the computer to say that the account is in dispute.

 

They are all computer generated, and they need some human input to tell it to stop sending the threatogrammes out.

 

As you have sent the CCA request, and then the account in dispute letter, both via RD, and kept a copy of the letters sent, then there is no question they would ever take you to court.

The judge will simply 'p' himself laughing, the fact that they have asked for the outstaning balance to be paid in full within 14 days is not only laughable but is also in breach of the OFT debt collection guidelines.

 

The letter is the 'standard' template 'all' DCA's use in order to try and get alleged debtors to cough up, they think that if they can bamboozle people who are unaware of their rights with big words then they will get their money! So don't!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'll have a look for the 'bemused' template to send the clowns, and the only other thing you want from them is their full complaints procedure, but as they are already in breach of the OFT debt collection Guidelines, which you can read at your leisure clicking on the link, then you should make a formal complaint to the OFT immediately:The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

 

Also complain to Consumer Direct who will pass it straight onto Trading Standards.

[Bazooka Boo]

P.S Don't ring them, they will only bully and intimidate you, unless you are recording your calls? Your only response to their laughable letter, should be a reply telling them that you want a copy of their complaints procedure by return of post and in any case within 5 working days.

 

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

BOS

Acct Number

 

I am extremely irritated by your persistance to pursue this disputed account.

On **enter date** I wrote to **whoever** informing them that they were in breach of consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

I am also of the opinion that the copy of the agreement I received, whilst illegible, does not comply with the conditions set out by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.127(3), recent case law Wilson V Hurstanger Neutral Citation Number [2007] EWCA Civ 299.

 

As you are now in clear multiple breach of CPUTR2008 in line with the OFT's guidance on debt collection, aswell as the OFT's own guidance on debt collection activity.

 

I now require you official complaints procedure, I will allow 14 days from receipt of this letter.

A formal complaint has been made with the OFT in regard to your suitability to hold a licence. I am seeking advice as to what legal action I can take against **whoever**.

 

Your continued pursuit either in writing or by personal contact in relation to this account will be in violation of the Harassment laws as well as CPUTR2008.

 

Your due dilligence in this serious matter is expected and appreciated, I trust that I have made myself extremely clear, and I look forward to receiving a copy of your complaints procedure by return of post.

 

Print your Name

 

 

 

 

Please edit this to suit, if you feel it is too strong then by all means water it down, if anyone else can pick holes in it, please do, we all need to learn, so anyones advice will be constructive criticism and is appreciated, unless your a troll!

 

 

Boo;)

Edited August 28, 2009 by Bazooka Boo

[Bazooka Boo]

Thats fine, take your time. They will write all sorts of garbage to intimidate people into paying either what they don't owe, or what they can't afford.

Their use of the English language contains a lot of big words, like litigation, to simply put the frighteners on people reading it and make them think they have no other option but to pay it!

 

When 9 times out of 10 not only do they not know the meaning of litigation, but a court is the very last place they ever want to go because they know they will not be allowed to get the amount they are asking you for now, if a judge tells them all you can afford to pay them is £1 a month then that is all they will get, full stop.

 

Your doing all the right things, you have told them that the account is in dispute and the reason why, if they then choose to continue with collection activity, then that is their look out.

You've kept copies of what you have sent them, and the receipts for the recorded delivery, have you been printing off the confirmation and the signature for the letters of the RM website?

 

As long as your documentation sent from you to them, and them to your is filed and kept, then you have a paper trail of evidence if it is ever needed.

 

Keep a copy of the Door Step Collection letter, printed off and kept by your front door, so if anyone does turn up re. the alleged debt you can hand it to them and close the door, or push it through the letter box to them.

 

Give them the template letter linked below through the letterbox or chained door.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resour...ep-visit-.html

 

Tell them to leave as you have nothing to discuss and all communication must be in writing.

 

Tell them you will call the police if they don't leave immediately.

 

Remain calm and polite at all times.

 

Walk away from the door so the visitor cannot try and talk to you.

 

If they don't leave, call the police to report that you are being harassed and the visitor refuses to leave.

[Bazooka Boo]

That link doesn't work..

 

The Office of Fair Trading: Debt collection practices

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,

or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

 

If I had a bit more time I would look through the CPUTR2008 to find the relevant section also, I think of the top of my hideous head it might be sect5???

The Office of Fair Trading: Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

[Bazooka Boo]

Sorry MM, still can't get the link to work:confused: just comes back with a 404 error??

[Bazooka Boo]

No worries.

[Bazooka Boo]

IMHO, it looks like an application form:confused:, there are no interest rates less for the one in Part 2 Account Details, it refers to an overdraft also, which doesn't come under the CCA.

 

Did you request a CCA or a SAR?

 

On page 1of3 at the bottom right corner it states Pref Aug 01, then on the other two pages it refers to PrefTC Feb 01:confused:

 

However some one else with more knowledge on these may be able to give you better advice, I'm confused and need to go back and re-read through the thread to get back on track:rolleyes:

[Bazooka Boo]

Was it a CCA request you sent them?

 

The more I read it the more it confuses me, it looks like they have cobbled together two sepearte agreements a CC agreement and an overdraft agreement.

 

The scan with the 'preference account' refers to an overdraft, these do not come under the remit of a CCA.

 

The next two scans refer to a CC which is why the dates previously mentioned at the bottom right of the pages differ.

 

And as the date stamp differs greatly from when your OH applied for the account, IMHO I would send them the failure to provide letter: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

Then wait and see what they come back with.

To my somewhat uneducated eye, I would certainly say that this is not an enforceable agreement under the CCA, but I am hoping that someone else will be able to back that up..

[Bazooka Boo]

Ok so the Pref1 acct is all paid for and we don't need to worry about that..yeah?

 

So the Pref2 acct is the CC and that is the one you need clarification on...yeah?

 

Well again looking at the pref2 scans, they have two separate dates on the bottom right hand corner, the first two state Feb01 and the last one page 1 of 3 states Aug 01, plus the date stamp is Jul 03, is this when the CC account was opened? Or were they both opened on the same date?

 

Have you asked Shadow to have a look?

Personally I don't think they are enforceable, due to the anomaly of the date stamp and the actual date the CC was taken out, if both accounts were opened at the same time?

[Bazooka Boo]

OK will ask Shadow to take another look, but the way I see it, is that the pref2 account was taken out on the 23rd Jul 02, and a Credit Card was issued for this account??

 

Your OH sent them a CCA request and this is what they have replied with for this account??

 

I will try and get someone to give a second opinion but I don't think this is any where near enforceable..

[Bazooka Boo]

Thanks Shadow for taking another look, MM send them the account in dispute letter as they have failed to supply the correct details for the account.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

Again send it recorded, and wait and see what they come back with, if anything!

[Bazooka Boo]

Just send them the account in dispute letter, and see what they come back with.

[Bazooka Boo]

it was only on 2nd looking that it clicked that nothing on that form suggests a credit card agreement.

Well done boo!

S.

 

Thank you Shadow for double checking for me

[Bazooka Boo]

Can you scan and post it on here so people can have a look?

Remove all Identifying names, addresses, bar codes etc, IMHO if they intend to go to court with the documents they have provided you, it will be laughed out!

 

If he wants to make any payment, then I would only suggest making the minimum payment of £1 a month, don't ring them to ask them if they will accept it as they won't, they are far too greedy and will want at least a couple of zero's added to it.

 

Scan and post what you received, it might just be another threatogramme, either way as I have said if they do go to court, there is nothing to be afraid of, it should be welcomed, as if their paperwork is in the order they have sent to you it will be laughed out!

 

 

Boo;-)

[Bazooka Boo]

Can't get the link to work:confused:

 

Have they received the account in dispute letter??

 

If they have and they are still trying to enforce legal action, then IMHO this would be a complete defence in court, they have failed to produce any of the relevant documents legally requested, therefore leaving you with no alternative but to place the account in dispute.

 

They should not be enforcing any legal action whilst the account is in dispute.

I would make an immediate complaint to the Financial Ombudsman

And a further complaint to the OFT: The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

 

As for all the anomalies on the form they sent, just make a note of them and get all of your files/letters in order, court is nothing to be scared of, you'll turn up their (possibly) with all your documents in order and they will be typing theirs out still, the judge will have a field day and throw it out!

 

Have you spoken with your local CAB at all?Citizens Advice - the charity for your community

 

If they are incompetent enough to take this to court, then you should welcome it. The evidence you have posted on here so far suggests you will walk out of their giving them the two fingured salute.

[Bazooka Boo]

Apologies are you able to re-post the link, I don't get anything when I click on the link!