Halifax cca ????

[axxsabian]

Hi there, could someone have a look at my wifes HALIFAX cca and tell me what you think

 

 

This account was sold to apex on the 28th october 2008 so now she have recieved they want us to pay up now:grin::grin:

[axxsabian]

Any One Out There Please:d:d

[babydoll0141917]

Hi

unenforcable IMO..they havent sent you historic Terms..In 2004 the late and overlimit charges were 20.00 not 12.00..No precribed Terms within sig doc..And they have sent you current terms send them this.. Amend to suit

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

__________________

 

 

 

 

Head the letter

 

 

 

I Do Not Acknowledge Any Debt To Your Company or Any Company You Claim To Represent

[axxsabian]

Hi

unenforcable IMO..they havent sent you historic Terms..In 2004 the late and overlimit charges were 20.00 not 12.00..No precribed Terms within sig doc..And they have sent you current terms send them this.. Amend to suit

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

__________________

 

 

 

 

Head the letter

 

 

 

I Do Not Acknowledge Any Debt To Your Company or Any Company You Claim To Represent

 

 

Hi there thanks for that,

They also attached a copt of there usual t's and c's that they have tried to pass off as there present ones but they are the same as the others.

I will post this letter of in the next couple of days and see what happens,

dont think apex will take it well but hey ho:wink:

[babydoll0141917]

Hey

 

No Worris ...The only reason that Apex wont like it is coz you are learning the law..DCAs tend to back off when that happens Keep us informed

[axxsabian]

Hey

 

No Worris ...The only reason that Apex wont like it is coz you are learning the law..DCAs tend to back off when that happens Keep us informed

 

I think i will put in a SAR to them as well hit them with it all at the same time just to see what they have got on us and see what charges ( if any) that we can claim back :grin:

[axxsabian]

Hi there, could someone have a look at my wifes HALIFAX cca and tell me what you think

 

 

This account was sold to apex on the 28th october 2008 so now she have recieved they want us to pay up now:grin::grin:

 

 

Can i just confirm a couple of points about my cca above??

Do the APR, AND CREDIT LIMIT HAVE TO BE O THE SIGNITURE PAGE ?????

[axxsabian]

sorry just bumping for a reply:D

[babydoll0141917]

Hi

 

Yes the prescribed terms should be on the sig page and can not be found in another document ...However the prescribed terms can be found on the reverse of the page..But there has to be some kind of link to say this IE overleaf ..pto ..reference numbers or page numbers

[axxsabian]

Hi

 

Yes the prescribed terms should be on the sig page and can not be found in another document ...However the prescribed terms can be found on the reverse of the page..But there has to be some kind of link to say this IE overleaf ..pto ..reference numbers or page numbers

 

Hi there thanks for that,

Yes they are on the other side of the signiture page which i had not noticed untill you said, they are not in a A4 format they are way smaller than the page and there is no reference to it on the signiture page,

Surley these should be on the signituer page for you to read before you sign to the affect of the terms and conditions.

Think i will send thnem a letter stating i require a true copy and that the cca is unenforcable, what do you think ??????

[axxsabian]

Also should'nt ' the right to cancel' section be embodied within the terms and conditions and not in a seperate document as it states on the signiture page

Edited June 28, 2009 by axxsabian

[babydoll0141917]

Hi

 

i too have the same CCa has you..On the reverse of mine i have CONDITIONS OF USE..Theres no reference to the Terms being on the reverse in fact if you read in the box above the sig it says YOU HAVE RECEIVED A COPY OF which avers to the terms being in a separate document, this is unexceptable..Also on the front of the doc it gives you cancellation rights..on the back of mine it gives cancellation rights again,this time different to the ones on the front of the CCA..there wouldnt be to diff cancellation rights on one form..let alone different ones..It very easy for someone to copy terms on the reverse..I truely beleive these wasnt there when we signed..I havent payed halifax for 15 mths..account has gone from halifax to blair to capquest to robinson way all who have passed back to halifax..I think if halifax had any ammo they would of used it by now .Sending a letter is good...you could also point out to them your concerns,then see what they come back with,i asked to view mine at my local branch they ignored the question ,,i wonder why

Edited June 28, 2009 by babydoll0141917

[axxsabian]

Hi

 

i too have the same CCa has you..On the reverse of mine i have CONDITIONS OF USE..Theres no reference to the Terms being on the reverse in fact if you read in the box above the sig it says YOU HAVE RECEIVED A COPY OF which avers to the terms being in a separate document, this is unexceptable..Also on the front of the doc it gives you cancellation rights..on the back of mine it gives cancellation rights again,this time different to the ones on the front of the CCA..there wouldnt be to diff cancellation rights on one form..let alone different ones..It very easy for someone to copy terms on the reverse..I truely beleive these wasnt there when we signed..I havent payed halifax for 15 mths..account has gone from halifax to blair to capquest to robinson way all who have passed back to halifax..I think if halifax had any ammo they would of used it by now .Sending a letter is good...you could also point out to them your concerns,then see what they come back with,i asked to view mine at my local branch they ignored the question ,,i wonder why

 

just a bit concerned because apex own the account now as it was sold to them, so dont know how they will react to me sending them any letter to say its unenforceable what is the worst they could do?? take me to court??? and then what, just abit worried,

I want to get it all right before i start with course of action, as long as i can 100 percent sure the cca is uneforcable i will be fine.

thanks for your responce how far are you down the line with it all

[babydoll0141917]

Hi

 

No one knows for sure if theses CCA are enfocable..as it stands they are improperly executed so can only be enforced by court..If we could all remember if the T & C were on the back then that would help us,,but we cant remember..the only way u would find out is if it went to court..

 

Did u CCA Apex or Halifax??

 

Quoting how far i am down the line ..as i said in the last post mine has been passed from 1 DCA to another ..they have now passed it back to halifax..not heard a word in 2 mths..maybe they know i have an invalid DEFAULT notice..instead of me paying the full amount wich is 16.000 they are only entitled to the arrears on default notice wich is about 2.000..mind you there are unlawful charges on there so they will prob end up with not alot ..If the cca did turn out enforcable ..wich i think its not ..and it went to court ..the judge will never ask you to pay more than u can afford..and also if they issued court papers then u defend on the basis of the CCA they sent you ..stating what you think is wrong with it..Are u a home owner?? employed ??

 

Did you get a notice of assignment from Apex and halifax??

 

Have you been issued with a default notice??

 

There is a guy on here called fingers he has the same CCa he is getting his looked at proffesionally to see if it enforcable or not...Look up another thread SUSSEX1 i think thats a good thread bout a CCa the same as yours

Edited June 28, 2009 by babydoll0141917

[axxsabian]

Hi there thanks for your time.

I cca'd apex who then asked halifax for the cca, also we did recieve a notice of assignment

just typing out my SAR's to mbna.barclaycard, egg and halifax, think i've had enough now just going to see what they've got on me, start stirring the ****