Absolutely disgusted by RBS conduct

[sythe]

Hi all.............I have two complaints against RBS with the FOS at the moment........I cannot beleive that a bank, which is supposed to be a trustworthy financial organisation can get away with the way they have dealt with my account.

 

I could bore you with all the details if anyone is interested......I'd be very interested to hear anyone else's experiences.

 

 

krj8

[yourbank]

Hi all.............I have two complaints against RBS with the FOS at the moment........I cannot beleive that a bank, which is supposed to be a trustworthy financial organisation can get away with the way they have dealt with my account.

 

I could bore you with all the details if anyone is interested......I'd be very interested to hear anyone else's experiences.

 

 

krj8

 

Supposed to be and what they actually are is completely different. Please please bore me with the details

[FlyboyAgain]

Are we talking about direct debits being canclled without you being informed? Zeroing your overdraft with your salary, leaving you with nothing?

 

I've learned how evil they all are, not just RBS, whom I happily shelved £5k cos they can't come up with the correct paperwork.

 

Get back at them.

[sythe]

Are we talking about direct debits being canclled without you being informed? Zeroing your overdraft with your salary, leaving you with nothing?

 

I've learned how evil they all are, not just RBS, whom I happily shelved £5k cos they can't come up with the correct paperwork.

 

Get back at them.

 

Hi Flyboy........what i'm experiencing with RBS goes as follows :

 

I believe that RBS wrongly added PPI to my oustanding balance when my loan went into default, I requested a copy of the original signed loan agreement + statement of the account..........that was over a year ago. My complaint went to the FOS. Who say that as I made my initial request through a DCA, I should now request directly to RBS. However i think that is just being done to get RBS out of the whole they're in as they still have not supplied the documents.

 

That said, the account will remain in dispute until I get what I've rightly asked for..........I'm not budging an inch...........they can be as evasive as they like...........my bet is they know they're in the wrong, but don't want to have to admit it.

 

regards

krj8

Edited June 27, 2009 by karenruthj8
spelling

[FlyboyAgain]

The FOS, in my view, can be a bit toothless.

 

Do you know who actually owns the debt, the DCA or the bank? It's crucial that you find that out, cos it'll save you a heck of a lot of time and paperwork. Most likely, the bank has just passed the debt for collection, and not sold it on, so get back to the bank about it first.

 

Do you have your own, original copy of the loan agreement? If so, you can use this as evidence that they have added PPI after the default notice.

 

Has RBS replied to at any point in the past year about your CCA request? If they are ignoring correspondence, it's for a reason.

[sythe]

The FOS, in my view, can be a bit toothless.

 

Do you know who actually owns the debt, the DCA or the bank? It's crucial that you find that out, cos it'll save you a heck of a lot of time and paperwork. Most likely, the bank has just passed the debt for collection, and not sold it on, so get back to the bank about it first.

 

Do you have your own, original copy of the loan agreement? If so, you can use this as evidence that they have added PPI after the default notice.

 

Has RBS replied to at any point in the past year about your CCA request? If they are ignoring correspondence, it's for a reason.

 

I agree with you about the FOS, I've replied to their letter, saying I felt that I had a reasonable expectation that my request to the DCA involved, for a copy of the original signed loan agreement + statement of the account should have been answered............ in my view RBS are just trying to evade the issue.

 

I've now written to RBS Credit Management Services, repeating my request and stating that they have had over a year to respond. I take it from all that has happened over the course of the past 14 months ie.........several other DCA's contacting me, some wrongly quoting the outstanding balance etc, that RBS still own the debt. I know what they're up to. They want a DCA in the way, so they don't have to supply me with the documents.

 

I do have an unsigned copy of the loan agreement, but I'm not telling them that of course. It is clear from that document that PPI was wrongly added, I've got my teeth in RBS's butt now and I'm not about to let go!

 

Until I get the documents i'm rightly entitled too, the account is in dispute.........it may even already be unenforceable?........one thing is certain, RBS have no legal way to purse me in court.......so i'll stand my ground, they won't get a penny out of me until they address the issue properly.

 

regards

krj8:D

[IdaInFife]

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

could be of help

ida x

 

 

[sythe]

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

 

could be of help

 

ida x

 

 

 

Hi ida

thanks very much for the info. I sent an email this morning to the FOS, quoting that to them. They are quite clearly not acting in an unbiased way in this matter and I have pointed that out to them...........I'll be interested to see how they respond.........I'll keep you posted if you like.

 

many thanks agin for your support:D.........krj8

[FlyboyAgain]

I would deal directly with the bank; the FOS are swamped with stuff like this and may be palming you off due to the overload. Tackle the root of the problem - your bank! The DCAs - as I have learned - are no more than little annoying yaps when you are confident you have the upper hand with the absence of an enforecable document.

Edited June 28, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
spelling

[sythe]

I would deal directly with the bank; the FOS are swamped with stuff like this and may be palming you off due to the overload. Tackle the root of the problem - your bank! The DCAs - as I have learned - are no more than little annoying yaps when you are confident you have the upper hand with the absence of an enforecable document.

 

hi Flyboy..............You are absolutely right. I have been fighting for quite some time now to get to a point where I am dealing with RBS directly, they keep putting a DCA in the way. At the moment it seems to me that the FOS are trying to give RBS the means to continue hiding behind a DCA, and I have pointed that out to them as clearly as possible in my emails. I realise now that I am at last in a strong position, the trick is to keep it that way..............at any rate I will not be dealing with any more DCA's and until I get the documents I seek the account remains in dispute.

 

What I really need to do now is move this whole matter on some. If FOS can't or won't implement the law, I'll find some one who can.......any suggestions?

 

regards krj8:D

[FlyboyAgain]

Your DCA - if it's anything like mine - will keep bombarding you with 'Final Notice - Call Now!' letters that only serve to get you to call them so as they can lean on you. Deal with them only in writing, but don't keep going over old ground with them: it's a waste of your time and energy!

 

In the absence of an enforceable agreement - the account is still in dispute, yes? - then it's a bit of a stalemate. I guess you could take them to court to get them to produce the agreement but what would that serve? The fact that they haven't produced it on over a year tells you a) they can't find it or b) they know it's incorrectly laid out/incomplete and aren't letting on.

 

For what its worth, my DCA, a while back, sent me a red letter threatening court action against one of my unenforceable accounts; I told them, in writing, to go ahead, as they would be nothing but canon-fodder to my in the courtroom. Strangely, there has been nothing since, bar their telephone calls, whcih I've started to answer again, mainly cos I now play loud farmyard animals noises down the phone when I hear the delay and echo that tells it's them. or the Bank!

 

I don't think you can move it on much, and don't even think of offering them a settlement figure on an account that's still in dispute.

 

Maybe Ida can chime in.

[sythe]

Your DCA - if it's anything like mine - will keep bombarding you with 'Final Notice - Call Now!' letters that only serve to get you to call them so as they can lean on you. Deal with them only in writing, but don't keep going over old ground with them: it's a waste of your time and energy!

 

In the absence of an enforceable agreement - the account is still in dispute, yes? - then it's a bit of a stalemate. I guess you could take them to court to get them to produce the agreement but what would that serve? The fact that they haven't produced it on over a year tells you a) they can't find it or b) they know it's incorrectly laid out/incomplete and aren't letting on.

 

For what its worth, my DCA, a while back, sent me a red letter threatening court action against one of my unenforceable accounts; I told them, in writing, to go ahead, as they would be nothing but canon-fodder to my in the courtroom. Strangely, there has been nothing since, bar their telephone calls, whcih I've started to answer again, mainly cos I now play loud farmyard animals noises down the phone when I hear the delay and echo that tells it's them. or the Bank!

 

I don't think you can move it on much, and don't even think of offering them a settlement figure on an account that's still in dispute.

 

Maybe Ida can chime in.

 

I can see what you mean about the stalemate...........happily since the FOS got involved i haven't had any contact from DCA's...........but I'll keep what you've said in mind and communicate only with RBS in writing. If RBS do not supply the documents, I suppose the debt will eventually become time barred, it's 5 or 6 years in Scotland. That's probably why RBS keep using DCA's to keep contact................ although as I understand it. It is not enough for RBS or DCA's to contact me I have to respond.

 

So most probably in the absence of any enforcable document, I should simply reply to any correspondence with a final statement letter, saying that until I recieve said documents the account remains in dispute and then leave the matter at that...........

 

krj8;)

[FlyboyAgain]

'So most probably in the absence of any enforcable document, I should simply reply to any correspondence with a final statement letter, saying that until I recieve said documents the account remains in dispute and then leave the matter at that...........'

 

That's exactly what I am doing. All the bank will get when they keep firing drivel at me is a 'noted and filed' acknowledgement card. But watch out for them slipping in things like 'it is noted that you dispute liabilty of this debt'. HBoS did that with me on two ocassions and I nearly missed it. That's something I would have had to respond to, so any letters that arrive, read them carefully for little hand-grenades like that. I know it's stating the obvious but it's easy to become complacent.

Edited June 28, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
spelling and additions

[sythe]

Hi Flyboy.............i'm at a loss to understand your logic here. Surely the fact that a letter has been sent to the actual creditor, in this case the bank, stating that the account remains in dispute until such time as the requested documents are supplied proves that yes the account is in dispute. Isn't that just the bank stating the obvious, why would a response been necessary at all?.......maybe I'm just being a bit dumb here!

 

krj8:rolleyes:

 

PS........surely the only letter of any real consequence, that the bank could send would be the documents requested............. until then absolute silence would seem to be the only sensible response, otherwise the continuing dialogue only serves to show aknowledgement of liabilty.........anyhoo in my case it is not liability that I question it is the amount, which I obviously cannot reasonably be expected to quantify until i receive a signed copy of the original agreement!........

Edited June 28, 2009 by karenruthj8
adding more

[FlyboyAgain]

What I'm saying is that even though I have written to them stating no more correspondence until, etc, etc, they are still firing letters at me and if there is something in one of those letters that needs to be addressed, contested and rectified, then they'll get a proper response. I think it would be folly to ignore stuff like that.My example of them stating that I did not accept liablilty for the debt (the debt still exists, remember) was an accusation that had to be refuted. That's all I was saying. Remember: they are devious and trying to trip us up.

 

Sorry if what I was saying was unclear.

[sythe]

What I'm saying is that even though I have written to them stating no more correspondence until, etc, etc, they are still firing letters at me and if there is something in one of those letters that needs to be addressed, contested and rectified, then they'll get a proper response. I think it would be folly to ignore stuff like that.My example of them stating that I did not accept liablilty for the debt (the debt still exists, remember) was an accusation that had to be refuted. That's all I was saying. Remember: they are devious and trying to trip us up.

 

Sorry if what I was saying was unclear.

 

....in my case the dispute is about the amount, which I obviously cannot reasonably be expected to quantify until i receive a signed copy of the original agreement!....

........surely the only letter of any real consequence, that the bank could send would be the documents requested............. until then absolute silence would seem to be the only sensible response, otherwise the continuing dialogue only serves to show aknowledgement.....

....:? kindest regards krj8

[FlyboyAgain]

You have two issues, as I see it: the agreement itself and the unapproved attachment of PPI.

 

I agree with you. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

[sythe]

You have two issues, as I see it: the agreement itself and the unapproved attachment of PPI.

 

I agree with you. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

 

 

Hi:razz:.......i don't think you're paranoid at all.....please forgive me while I bore you with my situation................I took out the loan in question in 2003 ..........however shortly after that my business closed due to insolvency and I suffered a nervouse breakdown:sad:.

 

At that time the bank told me I was not covered by the PPI. I continued to pay the loan under the terms of the agreement for a further year. When I could no longer make the payments the account went into default. At that time the bank sent me a default notice which seem to show that the total amount of PPI as set out in the credit aggreement had been included in the outstanding balance.........I was not in sufficiently good health to deal with the matter, and so just made an agreement with a DCA to make reduced payments. However a year ago, two DCA's contacted me and it beacme clear that nearly £1000 of payments i'd made had not been deducted from the balance:mad:.

 

After much communication with the bank I finally got them to correct that matter...........it was only at that time that I began to question why the total PPI charge was added at the time of the default.........I complained to the bank, but they would not address the matter then and are still trying to avoid it to this day............i haven't paid a penny to them for 18 months now........my guess is that if they could have taken me to court, they would have by now. In any case if they do take me to court I'll simply use that as a way to be declared bankrupt.........so you see i have nothing to lose either way........not a happy situation, but there it is.

 

many thanks for listening, I really do appreciate your support......:)krj8

[FlyboyAgain]

Oh, I get it now. I think that's what banks call 'consolidating' and they are allowed to do that; maybe I'm wrong and someone else can prove this? Sorry, I thought they'd slipped it in without you having signed up to it!

 

You don't need to go down the bankruptcy route, not unless you've got a raft of other debts and there's no way out! I doubt they'd take you to court now, as if they had the agreement they would have supplied it long ago! Don't worry about it.

[miss muppet]

Can I but in here guys? Have you sent a SAR to RBS with £10 postal order for all the information on your file, that can turn up some very interesting information indeed and of course also means the account is in dispute until they comply and if they don't comply within the time limit you can report them to the information commissioner, it all lays a nice paper trail in case of court action and of course if PPI has been added, this will show up as well.

[FlyboyAgain]

Miss M

 

I'd forgotten about that. HAve you heard of any exmaples of 'interesting information'?

[sythe]

Can I but in here guys? Have you sent a SAR to RBS with £10 postal order for all the information on your file, that can turn up some very interesting information indeed and of course also means the account is in dispute until they comply and if they don't comply within the time limit you can report them to the information commissioner, it all lays a nice paper trail in case of court action and of course if PPI has been added, this will show up as well.

 

I didn't know there was such a thing as an 'SAR'?........in the meantime I'll just let things alone for while, and see what happens next..............sleeping dogs lying and all that.......but thanks for the info.;)krj8

[sythe]

Oh, I get it now. I think that's what banks call 'consolidating' and they are allowed to do that; maybe I'm wrong and someone else can prove this? Sorry, I thought they'd slipped it in without you having signed up to it!

 

You don't need to go down the bankruptcy route, not unless you've got a raft of other debts and there's no way out! I doubt they'd take you to court now, as if they had the agreement they would have supplied it long ago! Don't worry about it.

 

 

Hi again...........I passed through the dark tunnel of worry a long time ago.......I'm out on the other side now and still breathing.........although I must admit it has taken me a while to remember just how wonderful the flowers are.......listening to Glasto on radio 6 right now.......

 

very kindest regards krj:razz:

[miss muppet]

Yes, thats the best plan Krj, use it when you need it - I have just seen Tom Jones on Glastonbury, fantastic stuff. Yes, re the SAR all sorts of things should be supplied as well as all your statements, things like record of telephone conversations so if they try to claim that the ppi was sold as result of telephone conversation, there should be records of it. In my case they took a year to comply which according to the ICO means they breached the 6th principle and I used the statements supplied just before my case against MBNA to prove that they had deliberately tried to mislead by constantly misquoting my account number and had added interest to the account even though they had neither signed application form nor agreement. They also applied ppi to my account for 3 years and that is something I shall be letting FOS deal with soon, have a look at the legal issues threads and you will see how other people are using SAR and of course the PPI threads.