Hardship and account closure

[yourbank]

Ah there you are yourbank - I was beginning to think you had stumbled over that yeti:D

 

Don't worry about me seeing the look on your face, I've almost given up hope anyway so any help you can give now would be appreciated!

 

We first approached LTSB in Feb 2009. At that point we were unaware of the hardship criteria so didn't enclose any I&E,arrears notices etc.

 

We then heard about hardship so followed this up with an I&E early in March along with a financial affairs statement which explained our financial situation.

 

We didn't realise about the importance of priority debt arrears until May, although we had been in receipt of arrears notices since Jan 2009, but in May we sent copies of these plus an updated I&E showing a drop of over 60% in household income to LTSB.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

 

Is that the point that they closed the account?

[landy_alert]

Is that the point that they closed the account?

 

They wrote in April saying -

 

'Your account ending **** will be closed and transferred to our Consumer Debt Recovery Department (CDR) shortly. This department has been set up to assist customers who are experiencing long term financial difficulties.'

 

At that point we thought they were acknowledging our situation and were going to help! We thought the account closure was a threat that they wouldn't carry out, although we were quite glad to be shot of it and did have a parachute account ready.

 

We only realised they meant to carry out their threat when we tried to access our online banking sometime in May and our access was barred.

 

So do you think that the setting up, albeit unintentionally, of those D/Ds in December is what's blown the hardship case out of the water and that the priority debt arrears will not having any bearing on the FOS's decision?

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

Edited August 8, 2009 by landy_alert

[car2403]

With all due respect, there is hardship and there is severe hardship and people going to the FOS without the bank issuing a final response, going to the FOS because they have been "tricked" into believing they will get 100% of their claim paid out, going to the FOS when they are repaying arrears on priority debts(when the very fact that they are is not financial hardship).

Or rejecting offers which is ludicrous and which people have been doing or failing to provide proof of financial hardship merely saying that the bank MUST know. Or not completing household income and expenditure since financial hardship is household not singular. Or claiming that they are in hardship with an account closed in 2006.

The FOS will deal with complainants who simply say on their form, "I am in hardship" and provide no breakdowns whatsoever which delays claims. It's not as simple as you assume it to be unfortunately.

 

I'm confused, the FSA Waiver says;

 

 

If the complaint relates also to other matters, including but not limited to disputed transactions, or financial hardship, this direction does not modify the firm's obligations to deal with the other matters in the usual way

 

 

Where is "severe hardship" and how is that different to "hardship"?

 

The OP has provided I&E details.

 

It seems simple to me - those in hardship aren't being protected and the FOS/FSA are not doing their jobs properly if they allow the Banks to continue to behave in this way without correction.

[yourbank]

They wrote in April saying -

 

'Your account ending **** will be closed and transferred to our Consumer Debt Recovery Department (CDR) shortly. This department has been set up to assist customers who are experiencing long term financial difficulties.'

 

At that point we thought they were acknowledging our situation and were going to help! We thought the account closure was a threat that they wouldn't carry out, although we were quite glad to be shot of it and did have a parachute account ready.

 

We only realised they meant to carry out their threat when we tried to access our online banking sometime in May and our access was barred.

 

So do you think that the setting up, albeit unintentionally, of those D/Ds in December is what's blown the hardship case out of the water?

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

 

It's a bit of a catch 22 and some with this one. No interest being added is good, but shutting the account when you are in hardship is another thing. Yet new account being opened and funds going to there means that there is no hardship being caused currently by the account.

I might get em on a minor breach but one which I think is current with all firms.

"16. Before closing a personal current account of a customer in financial difficulty, the firm might offer the customer a basic bank account, if this is a facility that the bank offers."

 

I'm not sure whether, when the next time it is renewed, it should not make this a priority that an assessment of financial hardship is made prior to the closure of any account which would be better.

[yourbank]

I'm confused, the FSA Waiver says;

 

 

If the complaint relates also to other matters, including but not limited to disputed transactions, or financial hardship, this direction does not modify the firm's obligations to deal with the other matters in the usual way

 

 

Where is "severe hardship" and how is that different to "hardship"?

 

The OP has provided I&E details.

 

It seems simple to me - those in hardship aren't being protected and the FOS/FSA are not doing their jobs properly if they allow the Banks to continue to behave in this way without correction.

 

Define hardship exactly: "For the purposes of this direction, a complainant is considered to be in financial difficulty when his income is insufficient to cover reasonable living expenses and meet financial commitments as they become due;"

 

Define reasonable living expenses? What are they?

[car2403]

Define hardship exactly: "For the purposes of this direction, a complainant is considered to be in financial difficulty when his income is insufficient to cover reasonable living expenses and meet financial commitments as they become due;"

 

Define reasonable living expenses? What are they?

 

Are they delibrately splitting hairs?

[landy_alert]

Thanks for the continued input guys - it's really very much appreciated on this sunny saturday afternoon when I'm sure you've got better things to do than help a damsel in distress:)

 

Yourbank - although we did open a parachute account, there have been no funds deposited as we just don't have any! Not that LTSB would know or care about this. Any income from Mr L's business (and it has been very minimal - about £500 per month after business expenditure) has been used straight away to pay for food, bills etc.

 

On our most recent I&E there was a £260 per month deficit and apart from utility bills and travelling costs (I have a sick parent living nearly 200 miles away who we try to visit when we can) and £200 per month for food for two people, there were no additional extras or luxuries. It's just lucky that our only son is currently staying with his g/f during the uni hols 'cos we couldn't afford to feed him if he was here.

 

As I said before our household income dropped by over 60% when Mr L had to give up work due to stress.

 

I understand that there are people who are worse off but I firmly believe there should be a more standard procedure across the board for deciding what signifies hardship.

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

Edited August 8, 2009 by landy_alert
Missed a bit!

[yourbank]

Thanks for the continued input guys - it's really very much appreciated on this sunny saturday afternoon when I'm sure you've got better things to do than help a damsel in distress:)

 

Yourbank - although we did open a parachute account, there have been no funds deposited as we just don't have any! Not that LTSB would know or care about this. Any income from Mr L's business (and it has been very minimal - about £500 per month after business expenditure) has been used straight away to pay for food, bills etc.

 

On our most recent I&E there was a £260 per month deficit and apart from utility bills and travelling costs (I have a sick parent living nearly 200 miles away who we try to visit when we can) and £200 per month for food for two people, there were no additional extras or luxuries. It's just lucky that our only son is currently staying with his g/f during the uni hols 'cos we couldn't afford to feed him if he was here.

 

As I said before our household income dropped by over 60% when Mr L had to give up work due to stress.

 

I understand that there are people who are worse off but I firmly believe there should be a more standard procedure across the board for deciding what signifies hardship.

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

 

The FSA waiver has been in since 2007 and it was never formalised until 2008 with regards to financial hardship. I still think not enough is being done but I gotta work with what I got.

Technically, they didn't deal with you as a hardship case and when they did they shut your account. What effect is that event CURRENTLY having on your financial position?

 

 

EDIT: sky sports news is on so I am keeping up with the footie scores

[landy_alert]

So why do you think they chose not to deal with us as a hardship case?

 

Other banks,from what I've read either ask you to fill out an I&E or at least take some notice of one you choose to send in of your own accord. LTSB appear to have completely disregarded ours........

 

Other banks take notice of priority debt arrears which we have. LTSB ignored ours.....

 

I can appreciate that LTSB have different methods and that they feel they have helped by freezing interest, but it's not getting our priority creditors off our backs.

 

What I don't know now is how to proceed with the FOS - I guess I send them a copy of LTSB's Final Response letter and see what they make of things - but if you don't hold out any hope of success yb, then maybe I should just give up?

 

In answer to your question - it's not making any difference I suppose. The thing is we owe LTSB between £4000 and £5000 on our O/D, but the charges they owe us are around twice this. The charges are not going up (only the interest on the charges!) but equally our O/D is not increasing, so I suppose what you are saying is that they have helped us by closing the account.

 

Surely though, going back to your first point, if we asked to be considered as a hardship case and provided them with tangible proof, they should have investigated it as such?

 

Will the FOS (and the FSA for that matter) not see it that way?

 

Sorry, going round in circles and clutching at straws now!

 

Enjoy the footie:D

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[landy_alert]

Hi everyone:)

 

Just updating this thread -

 

Well things were getting so bad and with no sign of LTSB being likely to cough up after the Final Response we received (I even emailed the CEO but got no response at all - no surprises there then - typical Lloyds:() that Mr L decided he'd have to give up his self-employment dream and get himself a job.

 

As he is, fortunately, still very respected in the industry he left two years ago he got the first job he applied for. Unfortunately it is not the managerial position he held before, but has good prospects hopefully. On the downside the commute into Central London will eat up over £500 per month of his salary in railway season tickets. At least we should be in a position to clear some of those priority debt arrears though.

 

Therefore all this means the hardship claim is at an end - although as he is on a three months trial I don't know whether we should point out to the FOS when we inform them we won't be pursuing this that if (however unlikely that may be) things don't work out at the end of the three months we will be back to square one:eek:

 

If anyone could advise my best course of action it would be greatly appreciated thank you!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[landy_alert]

Hi everyone:)

 

Well even though I'm no longer pursuing this on the hardship route thanks to better times in the Landy household (fingers crossed that they continue;)), I thought I should add a footnote that my email (and additional hard copy of same) to the LTSB CEO did eventually elicit a response.

 

Before you get too excited, the reply wasn't from old Mr Daniels himself, but from a minion - there's a surprise - and it was a pretty p*** poor reply at that, just reiterating the fact that they are happy with their final response, blah, blah, blah.

 

No mention of an apology for the fact that in my SAR their staff referred to Mr L's suicide attempt as trying to 'top himself'

 

I am still awaiting confirmation from the FOS that they will cease to investigate my complaint on hardship grounds but as my hardship claim has now effectively ended, I will continue to catalogue my LTSB experiences in my thread within the Lloyds forum.

 

Thanks to everyone who has supported/contributed/assisted me on this thread - especially yourbank!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[AA99]

Good Luck Landy:cool:

[strewth]

Just read through this thread and wish you and Mr L all the best, Landy.

 

I think what you discovered in the SAR request was disgraceful and shows just how uncaring they really are. They should be answerable over this, because it shows they were mocking and judgemental. I remember the case of a woman a few years ago who was awarded a few thousand in compensation because the police wrote on the charge sheet 'ugly'.

 

I hope you point their wording out to the FOS to show how dismissive and inhuman they really are. It shouldn't be taken lightly because it was a disgusting thing to do.

 

They really don't give a toss about the impact of the stress your husband suffered, nor the stress of financial hardship. I hope that he is coping well, having been forced to return to something that was the cause of his stress.

 

Good luck to you and keep us updated. xx

[car2403]

Should you be back in the main forum, now you aren't pursuing hardship, L?

 

You'll get more exposure, I'd imagine.

[landy_alert]

Should you be back in the main forum, now you aren't pursuing hardship, L?

 

You'll get more exposure, I'd imagine.

 

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for the offer to move this thread back, but -

 

I do have another thread in the main Lloyds forum which I can go back to using and this can be left here to -

 

a) help others who may find it of use

 

b) return to if Mr L's job doesn't work out and we need to start where we left off with the hardship claim (fingers crossed it doesn't come to that though!)

 

So leaving it where it is will be fine for now;)

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[car2403]

In which case, do you want it closing, as all posts should be on your other thread? Can you post a link to that other thread as well, as I'm not clear which one it is?

[FM79]

Hello Landy,

 

Just to show you that I found your case, as you mentioned it to me (in my FM v Lloyds thread over in the Lloyds forum).

 

I hope all is well. You put up quite a fight. Good for you!

 

Inspired,

FM

[landy_alert]

Hi FM:)

 

Glad to see you found it ok - as you will see from our experience LTSB are not the best of banks to deal with. Hopefully you and anyone else who reads this will learn something from my mistakes and not be put off by my lack of success.

 

For instance, I should never have let it drag on so long with all the fob-off letters promising to get back to me with a response etc - after the 8 weeks were up I should have gone straight to the FOS:roll:

 

Furthermore, now that (thankfully) we are in a better position financially and are not needing to pursue the hardship claim, I really must get my **** into gear and file at court so that when (hopefully) the Test Case goes in our favour our claim is already in.

 

Once again good luck with your claim and don't forget to ask if you need any further help - if I cannot help, there will always be someone more experienced who can!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[FM79]

Landy,

 

I'm very happy to hear that your financial situation has improved. I don't think I'll be eligible for hardship TBH, but I'm going to try.

 

I'll go to the FOS after 8 weeks are up if I ever get to that stage. I'm still at the SAR stage at the minute, trying to get all the info out of them.

 

See you at the Lloyds forum.

 

Best,

FM