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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Foot Anstey Solicitors Plymouth?? A little concerned now-reassurance please!


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Hi All,

I have today recvieved a letter from Foot Anstey.

Thay say they are unable to respond to the claim as I have not provided deatails of the individual charges & I have not provided a calculatuion of interest I am charging.

In my letters to the bank I clearly stated I was claiming back £3055 in charges & 3549.92. I sent copies of all correspondance between me & LLoyds to mcol the day after I filed. I also printed of a cpoy off the spreadshhet which calculates the interest, on this it claerly states how much the original charge was & what date it was levied & how much interest the charge incured.

I have to send the information within 7 days or the bank will make an appilcation to strike out my claim.

What more do I have to send to them.

Do i need to print off the last 6 yaers bank statements. Lloyds tsb makes it easy on their internet banking I have sheets of just charges, do you think these will suffice & as I used the spreadsheet to calculate the interest what information do I give them with regard calculating interest.

Would appreciate advice as now i feel i'm in way over my head!!

Thanks

Jody

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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You have as your post 6 sent the schedule of charges, albeit only yesterday.

 

I would respond to their letter and enclose a copy of your last letter to FA that enclosed the charges and copy it to the court.

 

It is just intimidation tactics, sad I know, do not let it put you off, you are doing fine.

 

No need to send them the statements yet. Ensure you have printed them off though for later though.

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

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Thanks for that, I really appreciate all the advice i've been given as I have to be honest i'm pretty bloody scared by this whole thing!!

I have re printed my schedule of charges and by each charge I have noted what each charge was for ie - unauthorised borrowing or returned cheque etc etc.

They want to know details of how the interest wascalculated, what do I tell them as I used the spreadsheet & the interest was calcualted for me & I have no idea what rates were used etc etc. I have the final figure for interest but that's all.

I am going to send everything again recorded delivery today or tomorrow even though I sent most of it yesterday, I figure it's better they have two copies than claim thay had no copies!

thanks

Jodes

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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That is fine, there is no need to detail how you actually calculated the interest, once you have shown the interest accrued per charge. I presume you have have shown the interest that has accrued per charge and not just one total at the end.

 

No need to be scared, we will look after you here to ensure you get your money back.

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Thanks for that, Work got in the way of my claim this afternoon so I didn't get to the post office to post the information.

I will post a copy of the cover letter here tomorrow & hopefully some kind soul wil cast an eye over it & make sure I don't say anything stupid before I send it.

One other question - FA ( ironic initials by the way!!) have given me 7 days to furnish them with the information they require or they will move to get it struck out, I have no issues with keeping within this timeframe but I am going on holiday on Tuesday for two weeks, Should I mention this incase they give me another 7 days after I send then this stuff for something else they may require or are they likeley to ask for something within 7 days knowing I will be physically unable to comply with thier request & therefore getting it struck out?

Sorry for rambling!

Jodes

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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I would not worry too much about their 7 day deadlines.

 

They are very unlikely to apply for a strike out on anything else and the court would take at least a month to order a strike out. I do not see what else they could ask for now.

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

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I have written a letter back to FA ( posted below) could I just clarify- they have asked for a calculation of the interest I am claiming.

I have enclosed a schedule of charges which include the nature of the charge, the date it was levied, the amount & the amount of interest I am claiming as per the spreadsheet.

(eg unauthorised borrowing- £10.00 -16/07/2002- £3.75 int - total £13.75)

 

Is this going to be enough or do they want actual calculations with interest rates etc etc?

 

Thanks

jody

Copy of letter

 

Claim Number 7 QZ 50422, Your ref-cnh/113499/28

Dear Mr Horne,

With reference to the above please find enclosed a copy of the schedule of

charges stating the nature, date & amount of each charge including calculations

of interest.

I have also enclosed copies of all correspondence between myself & Lloyds TSB

to date

Should you require any further correspondence do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours Sincerely

 

me

 

Is this ok?

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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  • 3 weeks later...

Doh!!

Hi everyone,

I have just returned from my holiday & have today received the lloyds tsb defence via Foot Anstey. I think it is a standard 12 point defence.

What happens now?

Do I just sit back & wait for a letter confirming a court date, should I not have had that by now?

I had expected this to be all over one way or the other by now.

Since I started my claim A friend of mine has started & had two clims settled by other banks!

Would appreciate the advice

Cheers

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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Hi

You may receive an Allocation Questionnaire to fill in. These links will help you to fill it in if you get one:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57708-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

If you don't receive an AQ, read this:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80091-your-court-dispensing-allocation.html?highlight=dispensed+AQ

 

What was the 12 point defence, the normal one from SC&M is a 9 point?

 

Barty:)

 

I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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Poits are-

1 the def is a bank & I have been a customer at all material times ( ???)

 

2- by open an account I entered into a commercial arrangement & by using thet account I acknnowledge charges.

 

3- The bank provide leaflet in welcome pack outlining charges.

 

4- I failed to ensure sufficient funds etc etc ( not actually true because I was charged for going over drawn after charges were taken, why not take charges when I had sufficient funds to cover them)

 

5- no breach of contract

 

6- customer given advance warning of cahrges being imposed by letter.

 

7- Denies unfair contract trems apply to business users

 

8- denies s15 supply of goods act applies to claim.

 

9 without predjudice to matters in ponts 7 & 8 it is averred the charges are fair & reasonable & deniec they are unlawful.

 

10- It is denied amount claimed is correct

 

11-In the premises;

11.1 charges are for services & not damages or a penalty.

11.2bank entitled to impose charges which are fair & reasonable

11.3 denied charges are unlawful contravene any statute or regulation.

12 The claimants claim is denied.

 

That is the defence in a nut shell- anything unexpected?

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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Poits are-

1 the def is a bank & I have been a customer at all material times ( ???)

 

2- by open an account I entered into a commercial arrangement & by using thet account I acknnowledge charges.

 

3- The bank provide leaflet in welcome pack outlining charges.

 

4- I failed to ensure sufficient funds etc etc ( not actually true because I was charged for going over drawn after charges were taken, why not take charges when I had sufficient funds to cover them)

 

5- no breach of contract

 

6- customer given advance warning of cahrges being imposed by letter.

 

7- Denies unfair contract trems apply to business users

 

8- denies s15 supply of goods act applies to claim.

 

9 without predjudice to matters in ponts 7 & 8 it is averred the charges are fair & reasonable & deniec they are unlawful.

 

10- It is denied amount claimed is correct

 

11-In the premises;

11.1 charges are for services & not damages or a penalty.

11.2bank entitled to impose charges which are fair & reasonable

11.3 denied charges are unlawful contravene any statute or regulation.

12 The claimants claim is denied.

 

That is the defence in a nut shell- anything unexpected?

 

Standard defence! Don't worry. Just wait to hear from your court if they require AQs to be completed. You may even get a payout pretty soon. Mine was settled 3 days after receiving their defence.

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Thanks,

That makes me feel a bit better. I have checked & double checked & I can't see any mistakes with the amount i'm claiming ( point 10 amount cliamed is incorrect). Is this just standard tatics?

I wish it would all hurry up. I just e-mailed someone from the buddy list cos i'm getting twitchy & it turns out it was me!!! doh!

thanks for all the advice, it is all much appreciated.

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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Thanks,

That makes me feel a bit better. I have checked & double checked & I can't see any mistakes with the amount i'm claiming ( point 10 amount cliamed is incorrect). Is this just standard tatics?

I wish it would all hurry up. I just e-mailed someone from the buddy list cos i'm getting twitchy & it turns out it was me!!! doh!

thanks for all the advice, it is all much appreciated.

 

Hi and thanks for the Brownie Point! There's nothing much you can now do but read up on the next stages and be prepared - I must admit I queried my defence when it came through (you begin to get really paranoid!) but that's how the bank's treat you, by trying to grind you down so that you give up! You'll be fine.:D

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I would be slightly concerned. Are you sayting that you issued your claim on a business account using the personal account particulars of claim? Are you also saying that you now agree with the solicitors that the amount of your claim is incorrect?

 

Nicsussex - I think she is saying that point 10 saying the amount is incorrect is not correct if you see what I mean and is just there to rattle her - mine was the same and rattled me if you remember!. I received exactly the same defence from Martineau Johnson for my business claim. Livelylad and Guido T advised in the early stages and I think they would have spotted anything disastrous at that stage. - only my interpretation!

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Hi,

In answer to the queeries, I am absolutey 100% sure the amount I have claimed for is the correct amount.

Yes, I am claiming for a business account but I mentioned this a few posts back & was told it was ok.

The general concensus is that the bank are just trying to intimidate me ( gotta say-it's almost working aswell!!). I will just sit back & wait & see waht happens now.

Do you think I should be concerned nic?

Jody

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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:D Hypothetically- If someone was to receive a letter in the post today offering full & final settlement on the condition of total confidentiality could the organisation who made the offer withdraw it if the confidentilality clause was crossed out? Also, If the same person had other accounts they were going to claim for would refusal of this condtion make those claims more difficult to persue?:D :D

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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Hi

Tell this person to send this letter below, rejecting the conditions, they will still pay up and they can still claim again:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bcard-woolwich-successes/48032-jakena-barclays-4.html?highlight=acceptance#post718754

 

Oh and big Congratulations to them too!!:grin: :grin:

Barty:)

I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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So are you as sure as you can be that this person won't get another hypothetical letter withdrawing the offer.

By the way - the congratulations are much appreciated by this person to whom I am referring.:D

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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Oooh!! Just been invited in to my branch for a 'review'. Fisrt time ever in 9 years with them - what could this mean I wonder!!

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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Blimey! it's all happening today!! Have just recieved a notice of transfer to my local court with a cover letter saying that my AQ should be sent there. I didn't actually receive an AQ so i phoned the court & the lady I spoke to ( very nice & very helpful) told me that AQs have been dispensed with & the case will be heard without one.

Is this the norm now?

I HAVE ALL THE MONEY I'LL EVER NEED - IF I DIE BY 4 O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON!!:-|

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