O2 Put default on my credit file after 4yrs seeking help please!

[alfa1_steve]

Hi All

 

I have read what it would appear to be every thread article about o2 placing defaults on people's accounts and mine is more complex and would really like help on how to resolve the matter in the quickest manner as i face losing my job over this.

 

I had an account with o2 opened approx jan 2005 and when the contract came to an end the final dd was paid and i thought that was the end of the matter.

 

In January i checked my credit file as i do every 3 months (a must do for my job) to find an account with o2 that had gone into default for £842 pound. The details are as follows:

 

Account start date: 20/02/2006

 

Account default date: 16/12/2007

 

Default recorded with credit reference agency in December 2008, with no other history showing ie no payments made etc.

 

I called o2 and managed to find my old number i had with o2 from an old phone book and the ladie said she could not locate me on the system and that the information must not be correct.

 

I called checkmyfile.com and asked them to dispute this with o2 for all 3 credit reference agencies which they did and a few weeks later checkmyfile got back to me to say that o2 has checked the information and found it to be correct and will not be removing the default.

 

I can't understand why they have not contacted me in relation to the supposed debt, no default notice or demand letters from o2 or debt collection agencies. I understand that they do not legally have to issue me with a default notice as they do not subscribe to the consumer credit act but this cannot be correct because they still report account information to credit reference agencies as if it where issuing credit. I have emailed my local MP to hopefully lend some wait to my argument and hopefully i will get his support.

 

I have emailed o2 to ask for email address of complaints department credit management as i am away from the uk for the next 2 month and would like to get the ball rolling etc.

 

Would i be correct in presuming the next step would be to write to o2 and request account numbers etc as i only have the old telephone number and then request all information relating to that account under the data protection act.

 

Any advise or input would be appreciated however small

[citizenB]

I am unable to advise you, but will nudge your thread so others dont miss it.

 

[buzby]

This kind of behaviour stinks, but it is very common. There are schools of thought that the default should be challenged as it was not placed timeously on your account, but I don't share this as the ICO's rules refer to CCA defaults which are more tightly controlled.

 

Also, there is no requirement for a Default Notice, (a CCA necessity), all they are stating is toyr accont is/was in default at the time the entry was made. If you challenge it for accuracy, the only hope for total removal is that the debt never existed. If it is found that the debt did exist, but was paid off subsequently then all that happens in that the entry should change from being showed a 'outstanding' to 'settled' - which to many minds is hardly an improvement.

 

You are right this is a problem that only O2 can properly resolve - so you need to get them to provide the information required to identify where the debit came from and why it was applied to your account. If you can challenge them successfully on this, you can ask for the total removal of the adverse entry.

[alfa1_steve]

Thanks for your reply BUZBY

 

I have found a few more threads with regards to o2 defaults and it has left me feeling a little confused as to which way to proceed.:-|

 

I have a couple of questions and i hope as many people give me their advise and opinions as possible.

 

Q1) Should i pay the amount of the default to try and show good faith or will this be seen as an admission that i owe the money?

 

Q2) From reading the threads it seems that the basis of having the default removed is that o2 have broken the data protection act by continually reporting the information to credit reference agencies, after the default has been applied as this makes the contact null and void. Therefor o2 no longer have your consent. Is this correct?

 

Q3) I have also read that unless the agreement is regulated by the cca o2 can legally not place a default on your file as this would constitute your contact as being governed by the cca. or is this one correct?

 

Q4) how much do you think it would cost for a solicitor to handle this? (please don't say as long as a peace of string lol)

 

Q5) Should i email o2 in the mean time and ask for account numbers etc or should i just wait and send in a SAR.

 

Q6) Would a telephone number be enough information for o2 to process a SAR?

 

I am sorry if this does not seem to make sense but i feel overwhelmed by all the information out there and i'm not sure what to do.

 

I hope that all of you with experience of this or similar problems would kindly take the time to help me, i would love to hear from dayglo and the people that helped him as i have read his post with regards to the natwest and vodaphone default with admiration.

 

Like i said previously though all comments opinions welcome from anyone:oops:

[alfa1_steve]

Oppps sorry forgot one other question

 

I also note on my credit file that it has taken them 1 year to record the default can this be another angle for it to be challenged as i am sure i have read the the ICO state it must be applied within 6 months is this correct?

 

Again many thanks you always remember something when you hit the post button lol

[buzby]

Q1) Should i pay the amount of the default to try and show good faith or will this be seen as an admission that i owe the money?

If you owe them the money, you should certainly pay it - providing any mitigating circumstances as to the delay. As to an 'admission' if you owe them the money, making an admission is neither here nor there. The issue is if you never took out a contract, then - of course - it would NOT e a good idea to pay as that WOULD be taken as an admission a contract existed, - but this isn't the problem here.

Q2) From reading the threads it seems that the basis of having the default removed is that o2 have broken the data protection act by continually reporting the information to credit reference agencies, after the default has been applied as this makes the contact null and void. Therefor o2 no longer have your consent. Is this correct?

 

Not a view I share. In all probability, the contract was terminated y the network due to non-compliance of the agreed terms. However, this does not make your agreement for the sharing of your financial data concerning the contract somehow illegal. There as some issues about an ongoing ability to 'process your data' however this is a double-edged sword. They need the ability to also record when the debt was paid and/or discharged, and the ability to remove it entirely if erroneous. None of which could be done using this as a bechmark.

 

I have yet to find any relevance to the ICO's application of processes for CCA agreements to somehow magically apply to mobile phone service contracts. The are not mentioned specifically either way, which means until a court decides (and NOT a small claims action) then this will remain shrouded in ambiguity. On reading the Act itself, I don't believe it does apply. I would certainly contend after 5 years from the contract conclusion, no further processing of customer data should take place, but not when the contract is terminated.

 

Q3) I have also read that unless the agreement is regulated by the cca o2 can legally not place a default on your file as this would constitute your contact as being governed by the cca. or is this one correct?

 

Bunkum, I'm afraid. CCA contracts regulate the sale of 'money'. Mobile phones are service contracts, so the CCA is totally irrelevant. Additionally, the consumer has EXPLICITLY agreed for their credit info to be disclosed to CRA's as part of the contract - so this is nonsense I'm afraid.

 

Q4) how much do you think it would cost for a solicitor to handle this? (please don't say as long as a peace of string lol)

Pretty much They'll charge per letter - probably £40-50 depending, so if there is a furious exchange it could become costly, but in any event due to pre-existing contracts of service (mobile) your agreed to the disclosure anyway.

 

Q5) Should i email o2 in the meantime and ask for account numbers etc or should i just wait and send in a SAR.

As you'll need the account numbers FOR the SAR, I'd write (not email) to request them.

 

Q6) Would a telephone number be enough information for o2 to process a SAR?

Yes - along with any billing addresses and postcodes relevant to the account, and of course - the name!

 

As for the year's delay - no, I don;t see this as an issue. Just because you took over a year to pay doesn;t make the default any less accurate - it is being used as a way to ensure payment, and is pretty effective as one!

[postggj]

it would be nice to have a debate with all the correct legislation on this matter

 

four years to register a default

 

that realy does stink

 

any body know the ico view on this practice

[alfa1_steve]

Hi buzby

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and answer my questions.

 

I have read and understood the answers you have given but i am now baffled as to how other people have had their defaults removed.

 

I am assuming that when people have used these various angles for getting a default removed the mobile companies dare not let it go to court incase they lose and a president is set? Do you think this is the reason people have won in the past?

 

Also thank you to postggj

 

I would love to have a debate while waiting for my SAR as i am of the same opinion to wait 4 years before placing a default seems extreme and wrong. If they had wrote to me or contacted me a lot sooner the account would have been more fresh in my mind and would have been able to be sorted out a lot sooner.

 

What i really cant understand is why there is no other payment history on my credit file it just looks the the account has opened straight away with a default.

 

I don't think companies or credit reference agencies understand the effect this can have on you, your credit file is so important in our day and especially in my industry.

 

To put a default on an account not tell you is a disgrace and i have raised this point with my mp and to leave it this long before doing so also stinks. Its going to be a nightmare to get removed i can tell.

 

 

Again all views and opinions are welcome and appreciated, as this is a matter i need resolved when my employer checks my credit file in 3 months i will be out of a job if this default is still there and then i will use all my savings to challenge them in court.

[postggj]

this is my advice

 

you need to send o2 an sar for all the info

thats they only way to sort this out

 

do you have any confirmation from 02 about closing the account or of you sending a termination letter

 

if no, they will be in your sar

 

it seems 02 have not cancelled your contract

 

this is quite common with all the mobile companies

 

this can be sorted but you need the info ref the sar

[buzby]

it would be nice to have a debate with all the correct legislation on this matter

 

four years to register a default

 

that really does stink

 

any body know the ico view on this practice

 

 

Yes. There isn't one. I have twice asked for clarification and none has been forthcoming. The wording of the closest thing to defaulting someone for non payment is for CCA regulated debts. Even this is not explicitly stated, but the terminology is closer to this than those for service contracts.

 

As for the wait of 4 years, this too is not explicit, where they say only that a 'reasonable time period' should be allowed for this data to be made available. It was the CRA's who pushed (and got the nod) for 6 years, this was to match what the courts did when they held the records of CCJ's and debtors. (Now all pushed out to a private company, Registry Trust to administer).

[buzby]

To put a default on an account not tell you is a disgrace and i have raised this point with my mp and to leave it this long before doing so also stinks.

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here - but if you didn't want them to do this, why on earth give them permission to do so? Nobody is forcing you to take out the contract, and you would have the right to reject or repudiate sections of it which I assume you chose not to do. (Of course, if you DID, they are not bound to accept these modifications), however both my contracts with different networks had that clause stricken from them - and it only took a matter of moments.

[alfa1_steve]

Thanks for both of you replies and the time taken to do so.

 

I have asked my girlfriend to send my SAR on monday/tuesday recorded delivery.

 

I will also be contacting my mp again via e-mail who so far has been very supportive but wants to see what the SAR indicates.

 

I have also drafted a letter to the ICO and ofcom all though i think it will be as much use as pi**ing into the wind.

 

Hi Buzby i will be honest i did not read the contract before signing it and even if i did at the time i would of thought o2 where a professional organization who would not allow things like this to happen or treat people so badly. Is this what you mean by "right to reject or repudiate sections"?

But i can assure you from now on i will read everything before i sign it.

 

Now its just going to be a waiting game for my SAR

 

Again thank you guys for your input however if any one would like to add more start a debate please do so

Edited May 18, 2009 by alfa1_steve
spelling i'm a clutz

[buzby]

As much as it pains me to say it, O2 ARE 'being professional'. This is the state of consumer commerce all companies now find themselves in. The 'customer is King' is just a memory - they are simply cash cows to manipulate.

 

You may laugh at the tricks Ryanair comes away with to prise money from their passengers, but the communications networks are no different - they charge you a fee nor not paying by their preferred method, they charge you again in the payment is 'late' (the fact they took 14 days to deliver the bill isn't counted), that if you want to have a bill, you are charged £1.25 for each one they send to you...

 

What we need is a court (or the ASA) to rule that all these enforced additional charges are either illegal, or must be added to the advertised minimum monthly pyment to show people how uncompetitive their services really are.

[alfa1_steve]

Hi Buzby

 

Thanks for the reply

 

Thinking about what your said your correct, i was naive when dealing with companies in the past expecting them to have good morals and i think this is the word i should have used instead of professional.

 

I think what we should do is maybe start a petition on the 10 downing street website or contact our mp's. I think the main problem with this is that people are ignorant until they find they have a problem, i know i was.

[buzby]

I'll sign it!

[alfa1_steve]

Ok

 

After racking my brains, looking at paper work, lots of phone calls and talking to the other half i think i have figured out what has happened.

 

The dates of the contract as stated on my credit file are correct this was an upgrade which i took out in feb and i canceled in october as i had relocated to Abu Dhabi for 18 months and i new the bills where getting high.

 

My father said he was there when i called them from while in Abu Dhabi to cancel the contract and they said the final bill would be produced and taken by direct debit but it might take a while longer for all of the oversea bills to o2 to go into the account and i can vaguely remember the ladie saying it could be up 2 months but not to worry the amount would be taken via dd.

 

 

I spoke to the bank yesterday who where very helpful and went straight back through all my statements over the phone (did not have to pay ie historic etc thumbs up for natwest private banking) All direct debits have been paid last one paid in november £233.33 but the dd was not canceled and is still active to this day and o2 have not requested any more money?

 

I have asked the bank if they will type this information up for me ie dd still active etc and they say no problem and will be on the way in 48hrs

 

So finally got to the bottom of it i think although i will still wait for SAR.

 

Any ideas on where to go from here?

 

I was thinking that if i write o2 a letter asking why they did not take the payment, explain bank can prove evidence and o2 did not try and collect the money and o2 have not contacted myself nor any dca on there behalf.

 

Ask for a brake down of the charges and offer to pay in full( IF i do owe them) as long as the default is removed from my credit file.

 

Or does any one have any other suggestions?

As always your opinions are appreciated.

 

Thank god for my farther who seems to have a better memory that me lol:D

[locutus]

Did you ever actually cancel the DD with the bank? If not, as they're being so helpfull with you at the moment, you could ask if they have a DD still set up for o2. Although this would not proove anything, it may add leverage for you getting the default removed, as you can say it was their error that any money owing wasn't taken.

[alfa1_steve]

Hi Thanks for your reply

 

The bank said at the moment the dd is not active because it has not been claimed in the last 12 months but they said we can see that o2 have not claimed any money since november 2006 and that at this point it was still active and that i have not canceled it.

 

I Think they should remove it with this evidence, as the bank are willing to write a letter to that effect.

 

I will be writing to my mp over the next couple of days to explain the situation, and to be honest if they don't remove it i will take them to court under "customer duty of care"

 

Although i think the uk is a backward place (consumer laws) i still think there are a judges who would rule on a common sense.

 

Hope that does not come back to haunt me lol

 

again any feedback help would be appreciated.

[buzby]

Good luck. What is needed is firms to become responsible for their actions (or in your case, 'inaction') but as much as I like the idea, the way things stand it remioves the prime responsibility of a debtor to pay gor goods/services supplied, and that is a major weakening of case law going back to the year dot. I don't think it will change - as MPs have been pretty ueless in stopping firms charging you more for not paying by DD). It's an imperfect system - and if you DO take it to court, You've my support and good wishes, but with the real possibility of losing and paying the other side's expenses, I've learend to pick battles I know I've a great chance of winning.

[alfa1_steve]

Hi Buzby

 

Thank you for your good wishes and your opinions, which i have great respect for knowing how many years you have under your belt in this industry.(Read on different post similar subject)

 

I hope in all honesty that i do not have to take o2 to court so it can be removed and will exhaust all other avenues before doing so ie letters, ico, mp, ceo and media if possible.

 

From doing a lot of thinking on the subject(probably to much) i have concluded that there must be 100's if not 1000's that try to get defaults removed. I would estimate that at least 70% should have a default registered(in my opinion) because have not payed bills ignored letters etc so unfortunately when the 30% of people that should have there defaults removed they are hit with a concrete wall.

 

Could be wrong though just feel after reading through a lot of forums from loans to banks etc i feel there are a lot of people who in my opinion and by there own admission owe money but try and find ways of getting out of paying it rather than repaying it. So it's become like a double edged sword. Businesses will try everything under the sun and consumers do the same but i feel the only people that lose the most will be consumers. Bearing the extra cost of the business expenses and consumers that are not very aware outside of the sector they work in of there rights etc.

 

I've read a lot about the bank charges saga and although i believe the bank charges are extortion et, i do believe that the bank has a right to charge you for going overdrawn bouncing a dd, cheque etc but it should be line with there costs.

 

It just seems to me that a lot of people want to have there cake and eat it.

 

Way off topic sorry

 

I hope my opinions do not offend or upset anyone as that is not the intention just trying to look at it from the other side of the coin and in a moral way i suppose.

 

Thanks again for everyone's help with o2 and i will keep you posted as to what happens as it happens

 

cheers guys n girls

[postggj]

Cag Is Not About Avoiding Your Debts But The Legality In Collection And Repayment With In The Law

 

Nay I Sugest You Read A Few Of The Dca Threads To Get A Better Idea

 

Maybe Being Called 20 Times A Day And Having A Rainforrest Destroyed In Threatograms May Change Your Mind

 

Ime Not Having A Go, Its Just The Way It Is

[alfa1_steve]

Hi Postggj

 

Thank you for your reply, i will do as you suggest and read some of the dca forums and try and look at it from a different point of view and educate my self a little at the same time.

 

I understand what you said about GAG, but i have read post's upon post of people that in my opinion should pay the money they loaned.

 

If some unforeseen circumstances has led you to be in financial difficulty i think that companies should take a sympathetic view and allow you time to get back on your feet(i know this does not always happen)

 

At the same time i do not believe when it comes to your finances ignorance is bliss. Some people borrow far more than they can afford and then feel that the company is in the wrong because it should have spotted this before borrowing them the money. This is a two way street and all the responsibility should not be on the lender. It could be down to education but in all honesty i don't think so.

 

If you loan money make sure you can afford to repay it, and have a little put away for a rainy day, this is what i do and think this is basic common sense.

 

You may say some people have no choice and have to pay 2333% apr which put them further into financial difficulty. Come on what is so life and death that you would have to loan, money at this apr. If you have no food on the table, heating etc fair enough.

 

The problem is and lets be honest the vast majority of people live well beyond there means.

 

Again just my opinions

[postggj]

What About Responsable Lending

Who Owns These Companies With High Apr

The Main Banks Who Default You At The Drop Of A Hat And Force You To Use These Legal Loan Sharks

 

Creditors Who Are Not Interested In Helping Out When You Hit Trouble.

They Just Sell It To A Dca And Claim The Debt Back In Tax

 

People Hit Problems For No Fault Of There Own

 

From 2 People Income To One

Unemploymeny

Disability

 

Most People Who Come To Cag Have Gone Through All Avenues And We Are A Last Resort

 

Like I Said

 

Please Read A Few More Threads

[buzby]

I really do hope you can get it resolved. I remain appalled at how much power a CRA now has over a human being, being able to destroy their lifestyle without a second thought. Only a COURT should have the ability to provide a sanction, and it is this imposition of a non-CCJ that has made the court process (for mobile defaults at least) a non starter. They wreck your file, then sell the debt of to a third party for as much as possible. To my mind, this is no better than corporate loan sharking in reverse.

 

I have heard, that if you complain long and hard (and often enough) O2 will oblige just to get you off their backs. It's a shame you've got to waste your own personal resources in doing so!

[alfa1_steve]

Hi Postggj

 

I agree with you lenders should be responsible, but people also have to be responsible for themselves too.

 

I am sure that some big financial institutions have there fingers in a lot of these companies, and to be honest do not agree with it but that is business.

 

I do not believe that banks would default people at the drop of a hat, it would not make sense for them to do so. It would make there lending book look awful, the bank would be scrutinized more by the city and let me tell you any bank with a bad loan book will pay the price (share price) and will then have to face the shareholders.

 

I agree some financial institutions are more help with others when it comes to times of trouble and think it would be a good idea to have guidance or rules set by the FSA when dealing with people in financial difficulty.

 

If you did not default on a loan from a high street financial institution in the first place ie thought can i afford this, what happens if i lose my job or become ill etc Then there would be no need to go to these legal loan sharks in the first place.

 

People may hit trouble through no fault of there own ie become unemployed but this comes down to planning again before loaning the money what happens if there are lots of solutions out there ppi, replacment income i, life assurance etc.

 

I agree that some of this comes down to cost and you can insure everything these days but again comes to the question before you take out the loan can you afford it?

 

People don't want the extra cost and just hope everything will be alright so therefore taking the risk, if something is missold i would say yes they are in the wrong if not covered what you told was covered etc.

 

Sometimes the only person to blame for bad decisions is yourself but people don't like to do that and think it's every ones else's fault. I am not of this opinion.

 

This thread has got side tracked by this, postggj i'm sorry if i have caused offense and if i decide to view my opinions will do so on the relevant post and will now only post about my problem with o2

 

Thank you for this discussion and i will do as advised and read more posts on the dca and other forums and see if my opinions change.