CCA cant be provided

[alexandra3]

Hi all

 

I have beenn a lurker for some time and used the information found here to tackle Abbey.

 

The whole thing started unrealated to my credit agreement. I took up a credit card with Abbey around the 10th of April 2007 (online) for the purpose of transfering a balance to a 0% rate. at the time of application I gave my bank details and asked that they set up a direct debit for the minimum payment. they failed to do it and after I had set it up again while making manuel payments it failed repeatedly. they could give me no reason for this. they removed my 0% rate and may have marked my credit file. This has now partially been resolved as they have admitted to not setting up the direct debit and have applied the 0% rate for the period stated.

 

Now, the problem I have is that while all this was going on (feb 09) I asked for a copy of my credit agreement. they have repeatedly stalled and yesterday informed me they dont have it. what are my options now? there is lots of info out there but I cant find anything specific to cards taken after the 6th april 2007 (I was only a few days after!).

 

Can I now tell them it is not enforcable and negotiate a full and final settlement, while also stopping my direct debit?

 

Most correspondance has been by post sent recorded delivery, but lately they have taken to phoning me and yesterday told me that I have agreed to the terms and conditions by using the card and they dont need an actual agreement. is this true? also, is it relevent that I have never actually used the card and it has simply been used to pay off a balance transfer?

 

really hope someone can help me....... im lost at how to proceed:confused:

 

many thanks

[supasnooper]

Hi Alexandra3,

 

May I welcome you to CAG and I'm sure you'll get some good advice here.

 

If they have put in writing that they cannot provide the CCA then by all means use it as a bargaining tool against them for a F&F settlement.

[alexandra3]

hi supasnooper, thanks for the welcome

 

they have so far only said over the phone, but am writing to them to ask that they put that in writing for me.

 

they did also say they would send out a blank credit agreement instead so I could see the T's and C's.

 

Im mainly wondering if I should stop the direct debit due to go in a few days?

 

any ideas will be a great help? most of the companies I have found online say nothing can be done for agreements after 06/04/07, but maybe they are just trickier and not so much money can be made by them........... then again, maybe im just clutching at straws! (not going to use a company, just hunting for info)

 

to be honest, Im not trying to write it off (because I dont think I stand a chance), but im aware that although they claim to have tidied up the unfair black marks on my credit file, any credit between then and now would of been affected, plus I was paying too much interest while they disputed the 0%. I just want some bargaining power to settle at a fair sum.

 

all ideas gratefully recieved!!

Edited May 1, 2009 by alexandra3

[supasnooper]

As online agreements only require a tick instead of an ink signature, it is far easier for the creditor to recreate the agreement.

 

You could stop the Direct Debit as they have not fully complied with your s78 request but it's a decision you must make.

 

You must get things in writing from them as phone calls can often be forgotten.

[alexandra3]

hmmm..... I had considered that they could easily knock one up and post it, wonder why they didnt think of that!

 

when I did on online application, would that have doubled as an agreement then? sorry, its probably a really daft question. I remember they sent an agreement through the post but when it showed it had all transfered I didnt send it back.

 

getting fed up that the account has been in dispute since feb and its costing me £100 a month while they think about it!

 

thanks again for your help

[supasnooper]

Regarding the online agreemnet - Yes it would.

 

If you are thinking of stopping payments you MUST put the account "into dispute"

 

Send this letter -

 

Send them this letter –

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2009 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

Amend to suit, send by Recorded Delivery

Any chance that you kept the original agreement ?

[alexandra3]

wow! thanks for that!

 

so it still aplies to credit applied for after the 6th april '07. Great!

have done so much reading today, my eyes are complaining. I wondered about going down this route

 

Unfair relationships between creditors and debtors After section 140 of the 1974 Act insert—

“Unfair relationships 140A Unfair relationships between creditors and debtors

(1) The court may make an order under section 140B in connection with a

credit agreement if it determines that the relationship between the

creditor and the debtor arising out of the agreement (or the agreement taken with any related agreement) is unfair to the debtor because of one or more of the following—

(a) any of the terms of the agreement or of any related agreement;

(b) the way in which the creditor has exercised or enforced any of

his rights under the agreement or any related agreement;

© any other thing done (or not done) by, or on behalf of, the

creditor (either before or after the making of the agreement or

any related agreement).

 

im out of pocket as they didnt set up the direct debit and then randomly cancelled it!

dont think I have the agreement. Im pretty keen on my shredder but will have a hunt for it. its a fairly huge thing to stop paying them, so will give it some thought but either way, with the time its taking I think putting it in dispute will be a good idea.

 

thanks again!

[IdaInFife]

They do not need to send a 'signed' agreement as they probarbly was never one needed.

 

what they need to send is a print out of the online agreement showing the tick boxes instead of signatures.

 

If you are out of pocket and you have it it writing from them it was there fault why not write them a letter asking them to credit ir refund the monies that you are out of pocket from?

 

Ida x

[alexandra3]

hi there.

 

I have already tried to be fair and ask that they refund the money I am out of pocket. they refuse to agree that I am!!! I have been offered £60 as a goodwill gesture.

 

For example, they refunded all the late payment charges that were their fault but they refuse to consider the extra interest I have paid because they were applied to my account.

 

the whole thing is driving me mad!!!

 

thanks for the help

[alexandra3]

Have put my letter together telling them I will stop the direct debit as they have not provided a CCA.....

 

Before I take a trip to the post box I just wanted to clarify that I am going down the correct route for an after April 6th debt. Im giving them one last chance and Im going to the ombudsman so really want to do things properly. Thing is I really cant afford to keep paying all this interest each month, its eating away into what I have to offer a final settlement.

 

Any input would be very much apreciated, there is so little info for debt after april 6th 2007

 

thanks:)

[IdaInFife]

Have you requested the cca in wiritng with £1 fee and have confirmation of delivery?

 

Ida x

[alexandra3]

I requested it while dealing with the initial complaint. I know they recieved it as they replied to the letter and it was sent recorded delivery. I didnt provide a fee, they never asked for one. They kept phoning to say they hadnt found it yet and then finally phoned last week to say they didnt have one.

 

I have not yet recieved the "blank" agreement they said they would send.

 

I really dont want to find out m in trouble through my own ignorance, but cant find the info I need.

 

Alex

[IdaInFife]

If you havenlt included the fee then they can and will ignore it.

 

I would resend including the £1 fee and send at least recorded delviery

 

ida x

[alexandra3]

thanks for that ida:)

[IdaInFife]

[alexandra3]

Hi everyone...... I have further developments:D

 

I have recieved a letter today from Abbey asking me to sign a form for a full and final settlement of a £60 goodwill gesture.

 

in the letter there is one paragraph I would really apreciate your advice on:

 

Further to our conversation, I can also confirm I am unable to provide you with a signed copy of your credit agreement for the above noted account. I am able to provide you with a blank copy of our standard agreement at your request - please advise me if you would like me to send you a copy. when you began using the credit card, you were in agreement to the terms and conditions of the account.

 

like I sid in my first post I have never actually used the card, just paid the minimum payment on the balance transfer

 

Is this correct?

 

thanks

alex

[IdaInFife]

Hmmm,

 

this may be different cause you haven't acutally used the card but tranferred a debit balance to them.

 

someone else will need to clarify the situaion with it being a transfer.

 

certainly, I would think you would be in a position to argue with the interest if they are not willing to suppy any form of agreement.

 

ida x

[alexandra3]

hey there Ida

 

I cant believe they think im paid off with £60! they marked my credit file for 2 years and I have paid interest on around £800 for 18 months when I shouldnt of had to. this is on top of trying to convince me im going mad, telling me iv not set up direct debits!!!

 

thanks for the reply

 

alex