Egg Card And Default Notice - invalid?

[Stagparty]

I think you are right, all we can do is respond quickly and fully each time so that if ever it gets to the point where it goes before a judge we'll be seen to have acted properly and in good faith. Hopefully that will count in our favour.

 

I currently have an agreement of £1 a month which expires the end of next month. I have been paying this but on a "without prejudice" basis whilst the CCA has been produced. I think I may have to stop paying that now as it seems the gloves are coming off from them.

[Stagparty]

Another update here, despite everything being wrong with the agreement as posted previously Egg have now referred this to Collect Direct (UK) for collection. They apparently believe they have fulfilled their obligations under the CCA request.

 

I've written to Egg explaining that as far as I am concerned the document they send doesn't fulfil the requirements but they just don't seem to accept that.

 

Should I write again spelling out in detail what I think is wrong with the agreement or do I just wait?

 

Just had another call from CD(UK) - has anyone dealt with these people before?

 

Can anyone suggest my next move re Egg and them thinking they have complied with the CCA request please?

[cerberusalert]

Thread renamed

[Stagparty]

Thanks Cerberus

[Stagparty]

Well guys the last month has been interesting with CD(UK) ratcheting up the pressure and standing firm behind their assertion that Egg had complied with the s78 request.

 

I've now had a letter from Egg explaining that they believe they have fulfilled their duty under the s78 request.

 

The bottom line is that they sent just one page of A4 with the alleged agreement. No current terms were enclosed, nor was a signed statement of account.

 

Can anyone please point me in the direction of where the requirement to send the current terms and the statement of account can be found please? Am I also right in thinking that if the account has been terminated then the "current terms" would be the ones in place at the date of termination - as they would be the ones under which the account should be paid?

 

Thanks in advance everyone!

[angry cat]

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

 

 

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

 

 

(a) the state of the account, and

 

 

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

 

 

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

 

 

 

 

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

 

 

 

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

 

 

 

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

 

 

 

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

 

 

 

 

 

(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

 

 

 

(a) showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

 

 

 

(b) where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

 

 

 

 

 

(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

 

 

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

 

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement."

 

Please note: "...and of any other document referred to in it"

 

Even if Egg had supplied current terms, that would not be sufficient;

they must provide the Terms that were applicable at the time the account was opened.

 

CD UK are just threat monkeys, you have to stand up for your rights!

 

AC

[Stagparty]

Thanks for your reponse AC - I have been batting CD UK off recently. Theirt latest letter came with the outline printed in red and pink with white sections which are filled with the claim details. At first glance it resembles a Court Claim. As they go on to mention potential court action etc I suspect they are in breach of various guidelines.

 

Is it worth complaing to the OFT/Trading Standards/FOS/FSA regarding both Egg and CD (UK)'s actions?

[angry cat]

Office of Fair Trading 3

2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES

Communication

2.1 It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear,

inaccurate or misleading manner.

2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. use of official looking documents intended or likely to mislead

debtors as to their status, for example, documents made to resemble court

claims.

b. leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it

creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors'

lack of knowledge

c. those contacting debtors not making clear who they are, who

they work for, what their role is, what the purpose of the

contact is

d. unnecessary and unhelpful use of legal and technical language, for

example, use of Latin phrases

e. failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status

of debts, for example, not providing requested balance statements when

reasonably requested

f. contacting debtors at unreasonable times

g. ignoring or disregarding debtors' legitimate wishes in respect

of when and where to contact them, for example, shift workers who

ask not to be telephoned during certain times of the day

h. asking or instructing debtors to make contact on premium rate

telephone numbers"

 

Report them to Consumer Direct 08454 04 05 06 and;

the OFT

[Stagparty]

Thanks again AC - I'll get the complaints done and also formally reply to Egg explaining why they are wrong. Egg claim to have sent various documents which I haven't received and for some things believe they sent them in a different month to the one they actually sent them in.

It will be interesting to see what the SAR throws up in terms of system dates etc.

Can anyone think of anything else I should do right now regarding this?

[angry cat]

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing

d. not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as

appropriate resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different

parties

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,

or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are

disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

j. acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor either

deliberately or through lack of care, for example, by not putting

correspondence in a sealed envelope and putting it through a letterbox,

thereby running the risk that it could be read by third parties.

6 Debt collection guidance July 2003 (updated December 2006)

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is

queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

[Stagparty]

I've now madea complaint via Consumer Direct who say they will pass the matter onto my local trading standards office. Has anyone any experience of whether or not this actually happens or if it's best to contact trading standards myself?

 

I'm a little confused here - Consumer Direct seem to be the OFT. Is that right?

[cerberusalert]

I'm a little confused here - Consumer Direct seem to be the OFT. Is that right?

Yes it is & they'll pass it on to the relevant office who will contact you.

[angry cat]

Consumer Direct is the Consumer arm of the OFT, they work in conjunction with TS and give advice on their behalf.

 

Consumer Direct will have given you a case reference number, your case will have been passed on to TS who will contact you.

[Stagparty]

Thanks both cerberus and angry cat. They have given me a reference number. I hope that TS do contact me, but the lady I spoke to said that she didn't know if they would or not. The reassuring point though was that by following the advice on here she confirmed that I had done all I could before making the complaint. So thanks again everyone.

 

I have a sneaky feeling this is going to get nasty. Egg's response to my complaint has opened the way for a few more questions - they are for example claiming to have sent documents which I havn't received. Unfortunately for them, the dates don't match up. In one case they say they sent the s78 information on one date, yet I have a letter from them requesting additional ID information after they think they sent the s78 information!

[Stagparty]

I have an ongoing issue with Egg and it is about to blow up big style. Due to the death of a close family member over Christmas I'm struggling to concentrate properly at the moment and would really appreciate some help.

 

The sequence of events are as follows

 

23-4-09 - Sent CCA request

 

25-4-09 - Received Default Notice from Egg with a date to rectify of 18-5-09

 

1st week of May received letter from Egg saying card would not be replaced when it expired

 

14-5-09 - CCA request enters dispute due to nothing being received

 

18-5-09 - Letter sent putting account into dispute

 

End of May - letter received agreeing payment plan

 

End of May - Letter received from Egg terminating the account due to non compliance with the default notice

 

May/June - Default registered with CRA

 

Various token payments made until Sept/Oct when I stopped paying due to non compliance of CCA request. The payments were made on a goodwill basis.

 

CCA complied with either October or December (depending which letter from Egg you believe) in so much as they sent the documents necessary - whether the documents are compliant or not is another matter.

 

My question is this.......

 

Ignoring for a moment that I dont think that the document supplied by Egg is compliant under the CCA 1974 (the account was opened in 2004) and has the "approved limit" and appears to be missing the "cancellation rights" by terminating the account before the CCA request has been complied with, even though the Default Notice is dated before I sent the CCA request, have Egg unlawfully rescinded the contract?

 

Tactically, is it advisable to write to Egg, acknowledge receipt of the documents and then say that due to a lack of prescribed terms the "agreement" is non compliant and hence technically the CCA request has still not been fulfilled?

 

Could someone please give me some advice about this? Many thanks in advance!

[PGH7447]

if you have doubts about the validity of the agreement, then either post it up on here with personal details removed or send em the account in dispute letter stating that the provided forms do not meet the required conditions

[Stagparty]

I will do that PGH - but can you help regarding the question re the potential unlawful rescission even though the documents were sent/received in a slightly unusual order please?

[PGH7447]

to be honest looking at the dates there is only 2 days in it, they could argue that it was send but delayed due to postal reasons

[Stagparty]

As requested the agreement is as follows

 

Side one

 

Side two

 

Tha account was opened mid 2004, so I think the "old rules" apply.

 

The reason I'm asking about the potential unlawful rescission is that I was wondering about saying "unenforceable agreement", and if its not "unlawful rescission" and get the default removed or I'll seek compensation in one letter - basically let them have it all guns blazing. But I don't want to do that if I'm wrong obviously.

 

Again, all advice and opinions are welcome, especially re the unlawful rescission and the tatics of writing and dealing with it in one fell swoop.

 

Sorry PG - what do you mean by "there were only 2 days in it" The CCA request wasn't fulfilled until either October or December depending on which piece of correspondence from Egg you believe.

[PGH7447]

23-4-09 - Sent CCA request

 

25-4-09 - Received Default Notice from Egg with a date to rectify of 18-5-09

 

------------

 

2 days

[Stagparty]

But the they went on to enforce the default notice whilst the account was in dispute..... by terminating

 

Do you see what I mean?

[PGH7447]

I do but I cant see why they would not, this is standard practice as far as I am aware

[Stagparty]

But they still terminated the account whilst it was in dispute and they were aware the account was in dispute before the end of the Default period.

 

This is why I'm confused.

[Stagparty]

I've been thinking about this most of the day, going round in circles... can anyone please help as to whether the fact that the account was in dispute when the Default Notice rectification period expired and the subsequent termination of the account whilst the CCA request hadn't been fulfilled means that the contract was unlawfully rescinded?

 

Thanks everyone

[Stagparty]

As the title says, Fredrickson's have decided to write to my parents regarding disputed accounts which I am already in correspondence with them about. They know where I live as I wrote to them only last week!

 

As my father has the same first initial as me, my parents have opened the letter and are now worried.

 

I know this is a breach of OFT Guidelines, but to me it is a cynical ploy by Fred's - I never actually lived at that address for the duration of the account - it's a clear attempt at intimidation by Egg via Fred's.

 

I know I can complain to both Trading Standards and the FOS but is there anything else I can do?

 

Thanks in advance

SP