Invalid Default Notices

[vint1954]

hi vint

 

bit confused now because "yes" and "but" in the same sentence spells contradiction to me. is it "yes" i have accepted the termination or is it "but" i havent accepted termination because it is an unlawful termination:eek:

 

cab

You need to show that you have accepted their unlawful rescission. To do nothing indicates that you accept that the contract endured post unlawful rescission. If not in writing, then you need to be able to show that you acted as though the account was terminated, post termination, such as stopping payments where you hade been previously making them up to the point of recission.

[cab1ne]

ok DD

 

the t's&c's say they can 7.2

 

 

cab

[diddydicky]

You need to show that you have accepted their unlawful rescission. To do nothing indicates that you accept that the contract endured post unlawful rescission. If not in writing, then you need to be able to show that you acted as though the account was terminated, post termination, such as stopping payments where you hade been previously making them up to the point of recission.

 

the danger in this is that if you were not making payments before the unlawful rescission, there is nothing to say that your continued non payment after the rescission was due to a change of reason for non payment or simply a continuation of your previous non payment (and for which one cagger lost the argument in court)

[vint1954]

the danger in this is that if you were not making payments before the unlawful rescission, there is nothing to say that your continued non payment after the rescission was due to a change of reason for non payment or simply a continuation of your previous non payment (and for which one cagger lost the argument in court)

Yes, that argument only works if you were making payments up to the point of unlawful recsission.

 

I don't see what the problem is in just accepting it in writing. Job done!

[vint1954]

ok DD

 

the t's&c's say they can 7.2

 

 

cab

The CCA sets out the way that they must end the agreement. Serve DN, give 14 clear days from SERVICE, then you can terminate, assuming that you have dotted the I's and crossed the t's in the DN.

[emandcole]

I'm in that exact position right now. I'll be sending my acceptance of their intention to terminate the agreement tomorrow.

[diddydicky]

Yes, that argument only works if you were making payments up to the point of unlawful recsission.

 

I don't see what the problem is in just accepting it in writing. Job done!

 

persackerly

[diddydicky]

I'm in that exact position right now. I'll be sending my acceptance of their intention to terminate the agreement tomorrow.

 

whoa there horsey- slow down!

 

where are you at? have they sent you a dn?

 

is it defective what are the dates

[emandcole]

Yep, default is defective due to lack of time allowed. Have checked it and have no doubts about it. Termination notice was then sent after this date expired asking for the whole sum.

 

My only concern originally was accepting their termination before the termination date was up in case they realised and revoked it quickly.

 

I believe now however that as they have written it, signed it and posted it their intention is quite clear and irrespective of when they say the money is due I can accept at any time and they can't withdraw it?

 

Based on that I was going to get my acceptance off pretty quick!

 

Mistake?

[diddydicky]

Yep, default is defective due to lack of time allowed. Have checked it and have no doubts about it. Termination notice was then sent after this date expired asking for the whole sum.

 

My only concern originally was accepting their termination before the termination date was up in case they realised and revoked it quickly.

 

I believe now however that as they have written it, signed it and posted it their intention is quite clear and irrespective of when they say the money is due I can accept at any time and they can't withdraw it?

 

Based on that I was going to get my acceptance off pretty quick!

 

Mistake?

 

oh no spot on

 

nice and simple

 

what date is the termination letter?

 

 

dear sirs

 

Re Unlawful termination of agreement

i refer to your you letter of XXXXXX in which you unlawfully repudiate the alleged agreement.

 

Clearly you intend not to perform therefore I accept your unlawful rescission and consider myself relieved of any and all terms and conditions of the purported agreement

 

 

Yours sincerly

 

 

recorded dly naturally

 

XXXXX

[emandcole]

Thanks so much for the verification, always good to be certain. The termination letter gives 18 days to pay in full from the date of the letter which I can't divulge at this moment...just in case!

 

Was originally waiting but will now accept their offer with your letter, very grateful. Once this is all safelt delivered and they've acknowledged in writing I'll add more details as certain this particular creditor will have their grasp on many people so will make a great case study.

 

[griffin036]

Can someone please clarify the validity of this default notice ( sent after 3 missed minimum payments) claiming arrears of c£370

Dated 15/01/09 - Thursday

Recieved 19/01/09 - Monday ( dont have the envelope!)

"Ensure payment is credited to your account within 17 days starting the day after the date on this Notice" - 15th January

 

So, 17 days after the day after the 15th is 17days including the 16th which takes us to Sunday 1st Feb to remedy.

Notice recieved on Monday 19th - 14 days from there -DOES this start from Monday 19th or Tuesday 20th???? If it includes Monday then have 14 days to Sunday 1st Feb = valid? or is it Monday 2nd Feb = invalid?

I cca'd this bank on 05/01/09 and they replied on 24/01/09, but of course sent the default notice out in the meantime which meant I could not put them in Default of my request before it was issued. The account was was put into dispute after they sent an illegible CCA, but by then the bank had sent an Account Termination letter because no action was taken re the Default Notice.

Subsequent letters to and fro, the bank saying they had complied with s78 - they HAD sent copy of signed CCA from 1996, current and historic T+C'S plus statement of account, me saying they hadnt because the CCA was illegible ( it also did not contain any prescribed terms - BUT- these were all present on the copy of the reverse of the CCA which surprisingly were very legible and on a slightly BIGGER piece of paper than the CCA.

Account passed to inhouse collectors, then Greens, then Aic. I maintained that an illegible copy was insufficent. Quiet for about 6 months, now another dca acting for their client, who "they say have provided you with the documents that you require".

Ironically after first looking at these forums over a year ago I came across an identical cca and the poster had its debt written off by the bank after they could only produce what they had. I guess I wont be so lucky.

So any advice on the validity of the default notice or other comments on this?

Vint?? I know you look in here, and I always value your comments.

[cab1ne]

Thanks so much for the verification, always good to be certain. The termination letter gives 18 days to pay in full from the date of the letter which I can't divulge at this moment...just in case!

 

Was originally waiting but will now accept their offer with your letter, very grateful. Once this is all safelt delivered and they've acknowledged in writing I'll add more details as certain this particular creditor will have their grasp on many people so will make a great case study.

 

 

when was the termination dated?

 

cab

[emandcole]

My understanding is that the dates given must be specifc and cannot leave you leafing through a calendar trying to determine exactly what date they need you to comply by. It should be completely clear.

 

Secondly, if 1st class post was used then perhaps they have allowed the clear 14 days but if they cannot prove first class was used then it is presumed that 2nd class was used meaning 4 days carriage, the envelope would have been useful obviously.

 

However, as the letter was dated on a Thursday there is no way it could have 'lawfully' arrived on Saturday as 2 days are anticipated first class and Sunday there is no postal service so Monday is likely to be the date of service, again if first class post was used. Appears to have not left enough time irrespective of the vagueness they have used.

 

In addition the dispute status of the account means they've been pretty off registering a default against you. Injury to credit and unlawful rescission all come to mind.

 

Let's see what others make of it all.

[cab1ne]

Yep, default is defective due to lack of time allowed. Have checked it and have no doubts about it. Termination notice was then sent after this date expired asking for the whole sum.

 

My only concern originally was accepting their termination before the termination date was up in case they realised and revoked it quickly.

 

I believe now however that as they have written it, signed it and posted it their intention is quite clear and irrespective of when they say the money is due I can accept at any time and they can't withdraw it?

 

Based on that I was going to get my acceptance off pretty quick!

 

Mistake?

 

i know they can withdraw a Default Notice and issue you with a correct one providing they havent sent you a Termination Notice, but i havent seen anything that allows them to withdraw a termination notice once served.

 

cab

[diddydicky]

Can someone please clarify the validity of this default notice ( sent after 3 missed minimum payments) claiming arrears of c£370

Dated 15/01/09 - Thursday

Recieved 19/01/09 - Monday ( dont have the envelope!)

"Ensure payment is credited to your account within 17 days starting the day after the date on this Notice" - 15th January

 

So, 17 days after the day after the 15th is 17days including the 16th which takes us to Sunday 1st Feb to remedy.

Notice recieved on Monday 19th - 14 days from there -DOES this start from Monday 19th or Tuesday 20th???? If it includes Monday then have 14 days to Sunday 1st Feb = valid? or is it Monday 2nd Feb = invalid?

I cca'd this bank on 05/01/09 and they replied on 24/01/09, but of course sent the default notice out in the meantime which meant I could not put them in Default of my request before it was issued. The account was was put into dispute after they sent an illegible CCA, but by then the bank had sent an Account Termination letter because no action was taken re the Default Notice.

Subsequent letters to and fro, the bank saying they had complied with s78 - they HAD sent copy of signed CCA from 1996, current and historic T+C'S plus statement of account, me saying they hadnt because the CCA was illegible ( it also did not contain any prescribed terms - BUT- these were all present on the copy of the reverse of the CCA which surprisingly were very legible and on a slightly BIGGER piece of paper than the CCA.

Account passed to inhouse collectors, then Greens, then Aic. I maintained that an illegible copy was insufficent. Quiet for about 6 months, now another dca acting for their client, who "they say have provided you with the documents that you require".

Ironically after first looking at these forums over a year ago I came across an identical cca and the poster had its debt written off by the bank after they could only produce what they had. I guess I wont be so lucky.

So any advice on the validity of the default notice or other comments on this?

Vint?? I know you look in here, and I always value your comments.

 

is the notice dated 15th January? did you keep the envelope?

[emandcole]

Thanks for the input Cab, have you accepted your termination yet?

[cab1ne]

My understanding is that the dates given must be specifc and cannot leave you leafing through a calendar trying to determine exactly what date they need you to comply by. It should be completely clear.

 

Secondly, if 1st class post was used then perhaps they have allowed the clear 14 days but if they cannot prove first class was used then it is presumed that 2nd class was used meaning 4 days carriage, the envelope would have been useful obviously.

 

However, as the letter was dated on a Thursday there is no way it could have 'lawfully' arrived on Saturday as 2 days are anticipated first class and Sunday there is no postal service so Monday is likely to be the date of service, again if first class post was used. Appears to have not left enough time irrespective of the vagueness they have used.

 

In addition the dispute status of the account means they've been pretty off registering a default against you. Injury to credit and unlawful rescission all come to mind.

 

Let's see what others make of it all.

 

ok i'll try again "what year" was the termination dated.

 

cab

[cab1ne]

Thanks for the input Cab, have you accepted your termination yet?

 

no i have not emandcole. my termination is dated august 2007

 

cab

Edited January 18, 2010 by cab1ne
oops

[emandcole]

Termination year is 2010. However I was responding to Griffin with my last big post. Have we got wires crossed

[cab1ne]

Termination year is 2010

 

righty righty then now i understand why your letter of acceptence would probably be a good idea. i just dont think in my case it would.

 

consider my wires totally un-crossed "thankyou" emandcole.

 

cab

[emandcole]

.

 

So much information eh! Thanks for the advice anyway

[griffin036]

didydicky, yes the Default notice was dated 15th January - recieved on 19th. Didn't keep the envelope, I was very naive a year ago. Still am LOL!

[diddydicky]

didydicky, yes the Default notice was dated 15th January - recieved on 19th. Didn't keep the envelope, I was very naive a year ago. Still am LOL!

 

2nd Feb first class

 

4 feb second class

 

stating a number of days rather than a date does not comply

[humbleman]

i know they can withdraw a Default Notice and issue you with a correct one providing they havent sent you a Termination Notice, but i havent seen anything that allows them to withdraw a termination notice once served.

 

cab

 

My OH got a termination notice without a default from BOS, paid the arrears and then told them to PO, they say since she paid the arrears they have reinstated the agreement again.