advice for my friend

[boltonbabe]

hi everyone can someone help please a friend of mine has just had a very unwelcoming visit off a bailiff company unfortunately she made the mistake of letting him in as she felt so threatened as she was home alone once he was in her home he demanded to go upstairs can they go upstairs? he was very nasty with her and made her cry my friend said she didnt want him to go upstairs but ignored her wishes and went upstairs.... also the possesions he as put down on the walkin possesion order have also been possessed by a different bailiff company can they do this too its like two bailiff companys own the same possesions any advice much appreciated xx

[chris600uk]

can they go upstairs?

Once in they can go anywhere and open anything to search for goods.

 

the possesions he as put down on the walkin possesion order have also been possessed by a different bailiff company can they do this too its like two bailiff companys own the same possesions any advice much appreciated xx

 

They don't really want her stuff, they just want money. Taking stuff is work, taking money isn't.

 

Tell her to make a sustainable offer to the bailiffs, one that will pay both of them, no matter what they say.

 

They've already levied upon goods, so technically these goods now belong to the bailiffs.

 

Sell anything they haven't levied upon to a close personal friend you can trust, or a trustworthy family member.

[diddydicky]

if you are suggesting that she simply knocks up a sale document and leaves the stuff in the house that will not do.

 

anything that has NOT been listed can be removed completely (perhaps to someone's garage) ideally BEFORE the bailiff arrives

 

if two bailiffs have levied on the same goods let them sort that out between them

 

goods seized and sold very rarely even cover the costs of doing so and you end up with loss of your goods and and even bigger debt.

 

NEVER let them in and pre empt their visit by removing your goods completely.

 

as has been stated once in the bailiff can enter and even force locked doors and once they have entered peacefully can then return and force entry

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

I believe that this is a duplicate thread

 

GK

[chris600uk]

if you are suggesting that she simply knocks up a sale document and leaves the stuff in the house that will not do.

 

No, I didn't.

 

This is a serious matter and is not for the fainthearted.

 

When you sell items to anyone who is kind enough to loan them to you, they must be prepared to claim them back should any bailiff decide to seize them.

 

That means providing a receipt of sale, doesn't matter how much for.

That also means providing a statutory declaration in the first instance stating that said items are the property of the purchaser in the event of a seizure, which at that point is unlawful.

Finally, if the bailiff co proves awkward the purchaser must be prepared to go all the way and make an interpleader application to the court.

 

The fact is, although a bailiff has the right (in case law) to assume that any goods at the premises of a debtor are the property of the debtor - once a bailiff is made aware that the goods are the property of a third party, they risk a very time consuming court appearance and the cost of restoring the goods to that third party.

 

In short, the third party, or your kindly auld Uncle Angus, must be prepared to go all the way to get his stuff back off the beastly bailiff who ignores the statutory declaration. They generally don't in my experience.

[diddydicky]

i note your comments but i must disagree with one or two

 

firstly it DOES matter "how much for" and producing a receipt for an item which is clearly way beyond its value will not hold water in court

 

secondly most bailiffs do not seize goods on the spot and so it is no problem to list EVERYTHING on the walking possession order and they entitled to totally ignore pre made documents stating who owns what which may be produced on the spot unless they are accompanied by bona fide receipts

 

there are then 7 days prior to the goods being taken away in which the true owner can claim the goods and prevent their removal (in addition to more time before auction) but the receipts will have to be bona fide shop receipts and not self serving sales documents between family and friends .

 

there would have to be very extenuating circumstances for the owner of the goods to convince a court why they did not prove ownership prior to sale of the goods and there is therefore a very grave risk of knocking up more debt if they lose the argument in court

 

don't get me wrong i'm not trying to dissuade anyone - but i think that it is important the all the consequences are fully understood before firing off court summonses

[diddydicky]

Im sorry i left an important piece out of my argument

 

 

in the case of an agreement for family friend etc to loan property to someone else, it usually indicates an unusual arrangement has taken place from the norm

 

in order for this to hold water in court it would be very advisable for this document to be witnessed before a public notary to prove the date upon which it was drawn up

[chris600uk]

in the case of an agreement for family friend etc to loan property to someone else, it usually indicates an unusual arrangement has taken place from the norm

 

There is nothing wrong with selling stuff to your family or anyone else, for whatever reason , no judge could reasonably say different, unless he plans to change the law of property from his own courtroom - what matters is whether the he believes the person who claims to be the legal owner.

 

it would be very advisable for this document to be witnessed before a public notary to prove the date upon which it was drawn up

 

That's a very good idea, a statutory declaration in front of a local solicitor should cost no more than a fiver - I've done it myself and you'll read threads on here from people who have done that too.

[tomtubby]

It is important to be aware that if a bailiff has already levied goods, then these items CANNOT then be levied upon by a second bailiff.

 

This used to be a very uncommon scenario but is now something that we are seeing so much of.

[diddydicky]

yep ( dont knwo when you did it but the buggers charge anything from 12-20 quid these days

 

as can be attested to on these forums- what a judge SHOULD do in exactl legal terms is very different from what they often do do and like everyone else they take exception to people who might be tryinng to pull the wool over their eyes and will then "tailor" their decision accrodingly

 

Clearly you dont go to bed early either!!

[chris600uk]

Glad you clarified that tt, I wasn't sure enough to come out and say it myself.

 

As for statutory declarations, dd, well you may be right...it's been a year or so since I did it.

 

As for judges, ah well, yes I've seen them make the most interesting decisions, sadly have had to be around courts quite a bit in my life; but I still believe in the law and that you should claim your rights, otherwise we end up with decisions based on what is politically convenient at the time - and that is dangerous in my opinion.

[chris600uk]

Glad you clarified that tt, I wasn't sure enough to come out and say it myself.

 

As for statutory declarations, dd, well you may be right...it's been a year or so since I did it.

 

As for judges, ah well, yes I've seen them make the most interesting decisions, sadly have had to be around courts quite a bit in my life; but I still believe in the law and that you should claim your rights, otherwise we end up with decisions based on what is politically convenient at the time - and that is dangerous in my opinion.

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

So good s/he posted twice lol

[diddydicky]

as a former policeman and certified bailiff i have taken the decision that i could best help others on this site by playing devils advocate and putting the other side's likely arguments so that the poster does not get the idea that it is all plain sailing

 

much better for us to raise doubts/put the counter arguments from experience than for them to find out in court