Fingers Vs Barclaycard

[Fingers60]

Hey All

 

So Im on my 2nd CPR letter with BC, after 2 failed S78 requests.

I have put the account in default with them but still maintaining min payments.

Have receved T & Cs only so hopefully the CPR route will flush em out !

 

In the meantime BC were kind enough to send my SAR pack of info through within the 40 days.

 

I have not defaulted on this card, have never had over limit fees etc and currently pay the monthly minimum payments.

 

Question...

 

Is there any info contained within the SAR pack that I should be looking for with regards bringing a claim of unenforcability against BC ?

 

It does not contain a copy of my original credit agreement...

 

Thx

 

Fingers

[Fingers60]

Thanks Slick I will complain to the ICO today.

 

Best

 

F

[Fingers60]

OK so I am about to submit my N244 to county court under CPR 31.16

 

I am enclosing the following docs and would be grateful if someone could check my checklist for what I have prepared:

 

-N244 application notice to my local county court

-witness statement between myself and Barclays

-copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays eg 1st and 2nd requests for copy of my original CCA under CPRs + the track and trace post office print outs to evidence these were delivered to barclays (all attached to the witness statement)

-draft order for disclosure

-court fee by way of cheque

 

I have attached below a copy of my draft order for disclosure which I would be grateful if someone could look over.

 

-Should I be changing anything on the document below and should I be inputting relevant dates?

 

-I assume this document is just a draft I am providing the court and they will then draft the final document and send this to Barclays ?

 

 

 

IN THE ******** COUNTY COURTClaim No:

 

IN A PROPOSED ACTION

 

BETWEEN

Fingers

 

 

Claimant

 

 

And

 

 

 

 

Barclays Bank PLC, T/A Barclaycard

 

 

 

 

Defendant

 

 

Draft/ORDER

 

 

[hearing the claimant and the defendant

 

AND UPON [reading the witness statements of [ ] and [ ][/font]

 

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT:

• the Defendant by [Date] shall confirm in writing to the claimant, which of the following documents are still in their possession
   
  1. The Credit agreement which is signed by the claimant and in its original form
   
  2. Any terms and conditions associated with the credit agreement being those which were relevant at the time the agreement was signed
  3. Notices of variation (if any) which vary the terms of the original agreement in accordance with s82 Consumer Credit Act 1974
   
  
• if any of the above listed documents are not in the possession of the Defendant, the defendant shall give to the claimant an explanation as to what has happened to them
  

• The defendant by [date] shall supply the claimant copies of the documents listed in paragraph 1 which are still in the defendants possession
  

• The defendant shall pay the claimant’s costs of this application to be assessed by the Court and paid within 14 days of the assessment
  

Dated the day of 2009

[Fingers60]

Thanks Slick, yes have been following smt's thread which is great news.

 

Looks like we are ready to rumble !

 

Appreciate your post.

 

Fingers

[Fingers60]

Cheers guys appreciated

 

Will keep you updated

 

Kind regards

 

Fingers

[Fingers60]

Hi Guys

 

Still waiting for my court date, in the meantime I have a few questions I need help with. I am still paying the minimum payments on my card even though I put the account in dispute. My questions relate to the following in my dispute letter:

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies

You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you

You may not add further interest or any charges to the account

You may not pass the account to a third party

You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency

You may not issue a default notice related to the account."

 

On reading the forum over the last few months I have not heard of any lenders that take a blind bit of notice of what their obligations are, my questions are:

 

1) Are the above obligations listed under the consumer credit act ?

2) Who do you complain to if / when the card company regsiters adverse information agaisnt you, proceed to default you and then pass you to a DCA?

3) When they do register adverse info agaisnt you, and lets say the "dispute" comes to an end eg court rules in their favour...would you have to go to court to get them to clean up your credit file ? Even if the card is enforecable they have still not forfilled their obligations by registering adverse agaisnt you when the account is in dispute etc

4) My card went into dispute 3 months ago, up until now i have made min payments....if for example the card co wrote the debt off...can i claim the interest payments back from the date i put the account into dispute...beaing in mind under the act they should not have been taking them ?

5) Should i be makimg a formal complaint and who to....that they have continued to take interest payments ?

6) and lastly an opinion needed on this one...i work in the financial industry and requirement that I have a clean credit file no adverse....if you have adverse you are deemed to be an "unfit and proper" person ....however...if i am excersing my legal rights here....and the account is in dispute ...would i still be deemed "unfit " if i was taking my lender to court and advised by a solictor to stop my payments ??

An interesting one for me and possibly untested in employment law..not sure i want to be the ginea pig here !!

 

Any help / advice / opinions here would be gratefully received as always !!

 

Fingers

Edited June 7, 2009 by Fingers60

[Fingers60]

I love this site !

 

Militant thx for your response Im loving your response to point 4 and going to do that today !!!!

 

"1. I'm not aware of it being in the Consumer Credit Act - I think it comes from OFT guidelines and the Banking Code."

 

Does anyone else know the answer to point 1 so I can reference in my letter?

 

Feeling inspired to crack on again !!!!

 

Fingers

[Fingers60]

Here is some more reading for you:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/175553-payments-made-under-mistake.html

 

The above thread seems to have died a death, but it makes some interesting points.

 

Thank you very much MC

[Fingers60]

Hi Fingers. I have a different take on some of your points.

 

1. The CCA 1974 sets out the obligations of the bank or credit card Co. See this letter - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/167584-barclaycard-no-cca.html#post1805429

 

2. The matter of defaults or negative markers on your credit files is d/w in the above-linked letter. Complaints about this would be d/w by the ICO.

 

However, the crux of this matter is whether the a/c is formally In Dispute.**

 

3. If any adverse data is on your file and there is no credit agreement, that data should be removed and the ICO would d/w any complaint. If there is a credit agreement, generally the data on your crdit file would remain.

 

4. You can reclaim any charges and interest on them but you cannot reclaim pay'ts made to reduce the a/c balance.

 

5. Complaints should go to the FOS.

 

But see below.**

 

6. Because of the area in which you work, you should be very careful to avoid placing yourself in a vulnerable position.

 

** If you started the CPR process without first making a formal CCA request with the £1 fee, the a/c may not be considered to be In Dispute.

 

Even if you did make a CCA request, BC will maintain the a/c is NOT In Dispute if they have supplied just T&C's in response.

 

Hey Slick

 

Thanks for your time on this.

 

Yes I did the CCA request route first with Barclays, put the account in dispute, disputed the T & Cs, and yes they maintain acc is not in dispute !

 

Thanks for you help.

 

Should get my court date soon via CPR and will update.

 

I am going to send another letter to Barclays reiterating that the account was put into dispute on X date for my records as I would like the option to reclaim interest from this date should the oppotunity arise.

 

Thank you very much

 

Fingers

[Fingers60]

Also another point you can complain direct to the OFT it does not have to go threw trading standards.

 

thank you

[Fingers60]

Brief update

 

Submitted N244 application to court. On the same day i sent in my N1 application for my barclays bank charges both in different envelopes.

 

I called 10 days ago to be told that both applications had been put together in front of the judge as one application which alarmed me because they are completely seperate applications?!

 

I was told there was a delay because judges were off...i just called to be told actaully the cases were approved back on 1st june...but had been sitting on file ever since mistakenly?!

Both cases had been allocated 1 case number and were due to be sent off today as 1 case ?!

 

Just because the cases are agaisnt the same institution surely the court recognises these are 2 seperate applications ?

 

I have asked for the court manager to call me.

 

Any guidnace here ?!

 

Sorry for offloading !

 

Fingers

Edited August 10, 2009 by Fingers60

[Fingers60]

I sent an email this morning to the court manager complaining.

 

By close of play both claims had been seperated, given seperate ref numbers and served on Barclays seperately.

 

They dealt with it correctly and swiftly...thought i was going to have to take the court to court at one point !!

[Fingers60]

Hi All

 

Waiting for my court date. Will update soon i hope !

 

Best

 

Fingers

[Fingers60]

Received my notice of hearing from my local county court.

 

Date is in mid November for my application for disclosure!!

 

Jesus thats 4 months away !!

 

Is it really this slow or is it just my local court ?

[Fingers60]

Think it could be your court

 

Is this for a 20min hearing? Mine was issued late May and had a date for July, guess a quieter court.

 

Barclays new solicitors want to fight the disclosure and have requested a re-listing with a 2hr hearing

 

Will have to see what directions get sent out now.

 

S.

 

Yes 20 min hearing.

 

Going to call 2morrow and see what they say.

 

F

[Fingers60]

Got my time in court mid October.

 

F

[Fingers60]

Hi Shadow

 

You have 2 hours for your hearing ?

 

What stage have you got to?

 

F

Edited August 9, 2009 by Fingers60
on the advice pf a wiser one !

[Fingers60]

Yep, Sharkleys at the last minute hired a law firm to fight the disclosure, gave me less than 24hours to agree to an adjournment and relisting for 2 hours instead of 20mins. Court have asked for skeleton arguments to be delivered prior to the hearing in Sept.

 

Blimey, sounds like your court giving you the run around... I would ensure you keep in close contact with them by phone to ensure everything runs smoothly from now on, getting anything posted from the courts takes ages and you dont want to risk missing anything again

 

S.

 

Yes and everytime i call them they say they will only take instruction from me in writing !!

 

Im on to me 2nd official complaint with the court manager...

 

Can i take the court to court ?!

 

F:)

[Fingers60]

Of course you could always get the case moved to another court.. one close but not as incompetent as this one.

 

I dont know about taking them to court, you could try going above the court managers head if the complaints are not satisfied, might be worth inquiring with ministry of justice for details of how to complain about incompetence in a county court. Do so AFTER any hearing tho as you wouldnt want stuff going missing etc.

 

S.

 

Yes I tried moving to another local court but they kind of blocked that idea. I think the court manager has now got the message but I will go above his head if its not sorted early next week.

 

thanks for your help Shadow

 

F

[Fingers60]

Hi Fingers,

 

Whilst I understand your frustration about how the court has handled your case, I think it may be unwise of you to post comments which a court or judge would find disrespectful.

 

BC and others watch the forums and could easily draw such comments to the court's attention.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Good point slick , i have edited my most aggresive rant !!!

 

However all names, dates are incorrect to protect the innocent !

 

F

[Fingers60]

Hi Shadow , would you be kind enough to remove my rant copied into post 37 !!!!!

 

Cheers mate

 

F

[Fingers60]

ok so an update guys

 

things have not been improving with the court...

 

-firstly I had received a letter from the court advising me that the case had been adjourned because "neither party " attended the hearing .....I spoke to the court and never really got to the bottom of it but I suspected that had brought the hearing forward without telling me or barclays.....

 

-i called the court to ask me to explain what had happened but they wouldnt confirm and just palmed me off without explanation

 

-i then had a rather strange call from the court asking me loads of questions about my case and after about 10 mins i just asked them what was going on and they said "we have lost your file"

 

-i had to copy all my correspondence and post it to them so they could create a new file

 

-i then called to check progress and to cut a long story short...i was accused of not following the court procedures by submitting an N244 as per PTs thread. I was told that I should have sent in a seperate initial claim first and then sent the N244 application thereafter ???

I asked the court clerk "if i wasnt supposed to start the claim with an N244, what was i supposed to send it" to which she replied which is now the classic response "i am sorry, I am not legally qualified to give the advice and cannot advise you" ! so i guess they are qualified to tell me what I am doing wrong but not how to do it right! so a replied "well a solicitor has advised me to do it this way" to which she wouldnt comment....i posted on PTs original thread and the advice was I had followed procedures correctly

 

-next day i had a call from the court advising me that "it was ok they had a word with the district judge, the judge was aware of this procedure and they were fine to continue with the documents as they were" !!

 

-however, i had a call last week to say my case last week had been adjourned beacuse "barclays had written in claiming they didnt have time to prepare a defence" .....

 

the reason they got away with this is due to the above problems with the court with teh admin side of handling my case

 

I am absolutely fuming here

 

the court are sending me details of tehir complaints procedure and i do now intend to make a fomral complaint agaisnt the court because the delay has financial implications for me...

 

thats it guys !!

[Fingers60]

Fingers,

 

PM sent to you with a sensitive question.

 

S.

 

Hi S

 

Nothing received.

 

rgds

 

F

[Fingers60]

Ok, this may or may not help you.. hope it does but remember this HASNT been tested in court and you need to put your take on the argument.

 

Hope this helps..

 

S.

 

you are a legend ty !

 

F

[Fingers60]

hey shadow

 

yes barclays have apointed same firm as you

 

they have requested more time to put a defence together and will be trying block the disclosure , they have requested a 2 hr hearing

 

guess they will use the same defence as in your case

 

Fingers