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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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Guest Happy Contrails

I wouldn't threaten a Reg 46 complaint because this is to do with irregular distress and none has taken place. I have to admit I have not come accross a firm concealing the name of the bailiff in charge, but I wouldn't mention Form 4 to them.

 

Tact and diplomacy is thge key, write down the name of the person you speak to, if they still refuse to provide the name of the bailiff then you can make a complaint to police under Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 because the firm is harbouring a person who is suspected of committing offences under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. Keep that bailiffs document showing the unlawful fees, it will be the principle evidence.

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Just called Newlyn. Was told it was an area bailiff and they dont have the details to hand. If I want any further information I have to write in, but it will not stop further action!

 

I have a problem now, as I have downloaded the Form 4, but have no name to complain about. The person on the phone would not gve his name either. What can I do now?

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Guest Happy Contrails

Contact police and tell them what you have told us here. If you are fobbed off then start writing everything down including names of who you speak to, quote legislation as a last resort. If the police cannot identify the name of the bailiff, they can question a director of the firm because he is liable for the actions of his contractors.

 

Write to the bailiff firm as they have asked, a one liner - Please tell me the name of the bailiff in charge - and get a certificate of posting at the post office. If the bailiffs say they didn't get your letter then you are laughing.

 

You can make a simple complaint to the council and quickly escalate to the Local Government Ombudsman, from experience they have plenty of clout.

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ok looks like newlyns have been busy little bees.

Everyone suggests issuing a complaint 4 against the bailiff, so I just want to shed a little more light on this complaint 4.

When you download the form it says "complaint against a certificated bailiff (distress for Rent Rules 1988 Rule 8) so I googled this act and it says on there that..............

 

Under section 12, paragraph 2, of the rules it states,

“LEVY and REMOVAL”

A Bailiff levying distress shall deliver to the tenant, or leave on the premises where distress is levied, a memorandum in Form 7 identifying the bailiff and specifying in an Inventory the goods distrained on and setting out the amounts for which the distress is levied and the fees, charges and expenses authorised by these Rules and being actually and necessarily incurred under these rules”

So I believe that if no form 7 has been left no case for the bailiff.

I, too, am fighting newlyns and have today sent this letter off giving them 14 days to provide me with copies of the form 7 and the inventories.

I'll let you know what happens

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Good for you Casbah. I too will send them the same letter, and in the meantime I am writing to the council to make a complaint against them. What is the point in a local council using a bailiff firm 200 miles away, of course this now gives them an excuse to say it is palmed out to an external area bailiff.

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Sending personal information via PM to people you don't know is not recomended.

Please keep as much information to the open forums as possible to avoid misunderstanding and/or possible mis leading advice that cannot be challenged or correted.

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ok, update. Called HM Courts Service Headquarters, Enforcement Team. Explained I had no name but wanted to put a complaint in. They said write to your local LA who passed it on to them, with a complaint and explain why. In the meantime you can submit a Form 4 and explain that you have not got the name, but your reference with the company and they can then contact the company and ask them to provide it - so doing this now. Also, he gave me the contact details for the Civil Enforcement Agencies, with whom the baliffs register. He also advised me to write to Newlyn asking for his/her name and a list of charges. Once I have their reply I can then send it to the CEA for a complaint against Newlyn.

 

He also told me that what has already been posted, that they should leave a Form 7, which I told him, all I got was a printed headed letter. So another thing to get them on. I told the council in my email, that if Newlyn even try to say that they have contacted me in the past to uphold their charges, I have proof that is not the case by the nature of their letter.

 

Council emailed me back - sayng contact you within 10 days. Looks to me like they may be hearing from the courts before they contact me again! Let's hope!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Way to go Kimmie!!!!!!!!!!! I too sent off my letter today ( a bit heart in mouth) I am so glad you have been told the same as I have.

I suspect my local council is going for imprisonment, so feeling a bit weak knee'd at the moment and was hoping there was someone who could boost my confidence, I still feel its a case of united we stand divide we fall, and if enough of us complain en mass then the courts may listen.

I have been told ( twice) that the judge won't do anything other than make the bailiff pay back the money, bailiffs make shed loads out of people that don't know their rights, so a few hundred quid back to one person probably means some other poor sucker is going to have a few ghost visits.

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Today I get a letter from Newlyn dated 9th April - yeah right! Saying they are acting on behalf of local Authority and need to contact me (even though I called their office the other day, to ask for bailiff information. It is the kind of letter that looks like they are trying to trace someone and state " We are acting on behalf of the above local authority and need to contact ********.

 

We should be most grateful if you would be kind enough to provide us with a forwarding address for the above person, together with an appropriate date that this person vacated the premises, and the solicitors dealing with the sale/purchase if known.

 

Now, i'm p*****ed, as surely there is some breach of data protection here. This letter not only states with whom the debt is with but in Bold letters how much is outstanding and my council tax reference .

 

Luckily, I am still at this address, think they are miffed that their one letter did not scare me enough to get on the phone and make an arrangement.

 

Any advice please?

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Guest Happy Contrails

Whats the question?

 

You have no legal obligation to furnish a bailiff with information.

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Whats the question?

 

You have no legal obligation to furnish a bailiff with information.

 

Is there no breach of data protection here? They have effectively sent a letter to anyone, quoting my council tax reference number and the amount in big bold letters.

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Guest Happy Contrails

The data protection Act is a set of data protection principles rather than hard & fast rules on how personal data is managed. I agree that posting a debt letter into a letterbox without knowing it will be seen exclusively by the debtor could be interpreted as negligent handling of data. Its not quite the same as leaving a memory stick database of names and credit card details on a bus.

 

The £95 is not allowed, the bailiff commits fraud by false representation so keep that document handy and make lots of copies, its crucial evidence and you have a right to report him to police and ask he is charged under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

Phone the bailiff on his mobile and ask which court issued his certificate. Say you need this information to report him for fraud and you will be asking police to investigate. If the bailiff refuses to guive his name then the police can interview the director of the firm of bailiffs under caution. Hand the police the document showing the bailiffs fees he is charging you and quote the Amendment 5 of the Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006. Attempting to defraud is the same offence.

 

Ask the council to take the debt back to council administration because you have a document proving their bailiff is a fraudster and a cheat and the matter is now with police. If the council fob you off with excuses then quickly make a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman and ask for compensation for being defrauded by their bailiff contractor.

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The bailiff did not leave a mobile number. I called the cpmpany, they said it was an area bailiff. The signature is a squiggle of one letter. The bailiffs said they did not have the details. I have written to them asking for them to justify their charges and the bailiffs details. I have also submitted a Form 4 to Northampton county court, as they claim that they can still contact the company and trace it through the reference number. I have also sent an email to my MP, asking him to intervene as it affects the credibility of the council if they use rogues like this.

 

They are constantly making it up as they go this company. To send the first levy on the 7th April, then this letter dated 9th (received 17th - so not true), doesn't make sense. The original letter gives you 5 days to contact them, so why would they send this out. They took a levy, so what 2 days later they now question if I am the correct person.

 

Also the Enforcement Officer at the Court service asked if I was given a form7 with the levy details, which is what I had read on here. I said it was just a photocopy of a headed piece of paper, and he said that is not right.

 

Any views?

Edited by k1mmie
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Guest Happy Contrails
The bailiff did not leave a mobile number. I called the cpmpany, they said it was an area bailiff. The signature is a squiggle of one letter

 

The firm is going to great length to conceal the identity of the bailiff, and that affirms criminal intent or mens rea.

 

Do keep us posted with your progress in getting your MP involved.

 

I cant comment on your Form 7 on whether its genuine or not.

 

James C: The burden of proof is with the debtor to show a bailiff did not make a visit giving rise to a fee. If you catch a bailiff pushing a document through your letterbox and leaving without making an effort to make contact with you then he commits an offence if he later charges you a fee pretending it is a visit. For this reason a GPS device (Marstons are big on this) is inadmissible in court because the bailiff must make a sworn affidavit to say he has made efforts to contact the debtor. If he lies on a sworn affidavit then he commits an offence under the Perjury Act 1911.

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I had a reply from the MP Saturday morning, saying he would look into my case, as obviously this does not look good on the LA, and he will get back to me hopefully Monday.

 

Another complaint to the LA about the updated letter and charges was a standard reply, again, saying have passed it on to the recovery department. I don't personally believe the council are taking complaints against this company seriously enough! Hopefully this will now change when MP looks into it.

 

I also read somewhere that the council should give you some notice before passing your account for collection to the bailiffs. Is this is the case? Also how long should the bailiffs give you to make payment?

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In the first place you can indeed pay the council direct BUT the statutory regulations provide that bailiff fees MUST be deducted first. For instance if a debt is £200 and bailiffs fees are £100 and payment of £200 was paid to the council, this DOES NOT clear the Liability Order. This is because the council are obliged to RETURN £100 to the bailiff co to cover their fees. This means that there is a balance on the LIABILITY ORDER of £100 and bailiffs can....and will.....continue to enforce the debt.

 

I understood that section 45 ss 3 meant any enforcement stopped once payment to satisfy the Liability Order was made (or tendered) to the Council.

 

I understood that the relationship between the Council and it's agent/employee was a matter for the council only.

 

Did I get that wrong, or has something changed?

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I still believe that the terms of Section 46 ss (1) and ss(4) mean that it can be used, I'll be very interested to hear what happens about a form 4 with no bailiffs name on it, it's been my understanding that if you have the name of the bailiff you use form 4 to complain about him, and if you don't have a name you use regulation 46 to complain about the council.

 

I think that a Subject Access Request would be a good idea.

 

It would also be interesting to see if a FOI request for the name of the bailiff was successful or not. I understand that it has a 20 working day deadline. It may also be possible that you could request any information held about the bailiff on behalf of the council including details of the certificate held by a bailiff, and the contractual relationship between the bailiff firm and the council.

All they can do is refuse it, but they have to give a reason.

Edited by chris600uk
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Just had a letter from Northampton County court saying they have passed on a copy of my FOrm 4 complaint to Newlyn and await their response. They have 14 days before it is passed to the judge for his comments.

 

I have also informed the MP that I will not enter into any correspondence with the bailiffs and want the council to take the account back as I will pay direct to them.

 

So I would suggest if you file Form4's then you may at least get it brought to the judges atention that these companies are [causing problems] us all.

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I got a letter from the council saying they had enclosed a list of the bailiffs charges. These are standard lists they send to all council tax defaulters, saying how much they are supposed to charge. We all know what they are supposed to charge - and that is entirely different to what they DO charge. Anyway they say call the company and set up a payment arrangement. SO I called Newlyn, they said straight away "oh so have you spoken to the bailiff and used his name (could not get this out of them before). I said no, how would I?" They said here is his mobile number and call him and it is at his discretion whether he accepts a payment arrangement. SO let a message for this guy to call. Now, this guy is representing Newlyn, yet they cannot set up a payment arrangement -this seems fishy!!!

 

Any advice on this please. Receiving council tax credit now, so I doubt he is going to want to accept £5 a week!!!!

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OK, so as suspected going on for Tuesday now, and no returned call from this bailiff. What do I do? Write to council saying they are refusing to talk to me let alone an offer and just make payments direct to them. They are useless. I have never heard of an area bailiff having the authority to make an arrangment and the company not even talk to you. In the meantime, ticking away for them to send a response to the courts!

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