carphone warehouse, quick advice needed...

[big blue one]

just a quickie! my sis bought a samsung tocco on contract which went faulty 3 times, in the end they replaced it with a refurb samsung soul phone. which is now faulty also!

 

should they have got away with giving her a refurb in the first place?

 

can we demand to end the contract?

 

or can we just get a brand new phone?

Edited April 10, 2009 by big blue one

[big blue one]

no one?

[andie_303]

no they should not have give a refurbed - something a lot of mobile providers try to do - Virgin tried to do it to me when my samsung went faulty twice - I rang consumer direct and they said no way if you have bought a new phone as part of your contract under the provision of services act a new phone should replace the faulty one.

 

If it is the phone at fault you do not have grounds to terminate the contract unless you are within the cooling off period.

 

Hope this helps

[big blue one]

thanks, thought this would be the case but needed some confirmation.

[Kraken1]

y'know, I think that there is an argument to say that if a phone that was provided as part of a contract is faulty then this is a material breach of contract and should allow you to cancel it. it is not your breach of contract, it is there's.

[andie_303]

But if they then provide you with another facility in order to take advantage of the service it is not breach of contract.

And it is not her service provider that have provided her faulty phones it is the shop i.e. CW.

Service providers can't be held liable for the shop

[Kraken1]

I think it is debatable, but it is an argument and I'd be happy to try it. I don't think that you could distinguish between the shop and service provider when you have paid only one party. at the very least I'd throw in a bit of agency. As for the phone - it is faulty - 'nuff said. If I buy a new bmw it does not negate the breach if the dealer gives me a focus.

 

Ropey, I'll accept. But worth a punt.

[andie_303]

the thing is she doesn't pay the one party initially she paid CW monthly she now pays service provider.

Anyway by the by if she is provided with a NEW phone not the refurb crap she was palmed off with then service can continue as normal.

 

I

[big blue one]

Thanks for all the information so far, keep it coming, the more I can get before Monday the better! So basically i should take her back to the shop and request a new phone to continue her contract? As far as I am concerned although the contract is orange the phone was purchased from cpw so that's who has the problem to sort, yes?

[andie_303]

yes correct phone should be a new one - if you need get consumer direct on the case I'm sure they quoted me the provision of services act as it is a contract phone.

When I produced a consumer direct complaint number in my case new phone appeared lightning fast

[big blue one]

Yeah was gonna get cons direct involved but they not open till tues, I can only get to the shop with her Monday cos of the bank holiday. Trouble Is last few times they just walked all over her with their bullshi7 cos she only 18!

[andie_303]

ok well just dont take no for an answer, google provision of services act print it out and take it to them. If they don't help ask to speak with the manager - you will normally find they sort it out - if they still refuse make a big thing of taking their names and tell them consumer direct will be contacting them shortly.

CD will take it up on your behalf if you are getting nowhere

[Kraken1]

I think you mean supply of goods and services act. Never heard of the Provision of Services act :/

 

CD does not intervene directly, they give advice only. The trader will probably know this so that is a fairly empty threat.

 

The choice of remedy following a breach of contract is generally the wronged party's, providing that the remedy is possible. Legally and practically. You can take a new working phone if you wish.

 

Have a look at the actual written contract - that will say who it is with and that will tell you who to have a pop at.

 

It is also worth considering what guarantees are in place for the phone. these might give you more remedies.

[andie_303]

Oh you're just being pciky now I wasn't far off the name lol

 

And CD do infact issue complaint numbers and will take certain cases up on a consumers behalf - I'm not sure of the criteria for this but I have known them to contact Dixons for a friend.

 

Anyway I'm sure if you go in you'll find they are not as bad as we are thinking they might be

[andie_303]

btw pciky is like picky but a little confused

[big blue one]

Lol

[Kraken1]

CD don't.

 

What they do do however is refer the odd complaint to the local Trading Standards service and if it is something that they are interested in then the trading standards department will pick it up. CD are first line advice only.

 

I admit I was being fairly picky with the name of the statute, but it can be fairly fatal to a complaint to march in throwing fictional statutes around - it shows the company you are complaining to you don't really know what you are talking about. If possible it is best to shy away from quoting law and precedent. Get ti wrong and it can be counterproductive.

[big blue one]

Good point, I do however think cpw's retail monkeys won't have a clue bout any retail/contract laws so dropping the odd one into the complaint may not hurt!

Edited April 12, 2009 by big blue one

[Kraken1]

probably right. Unfortunately.

 

I've done a fair bit of consumer and retail law training and one thing I found was that the shop floor staff knew very little. This said, they were convinced that what they thought they knew was right, whether it was or not. I doubt a consumer spouting legislation or case law will persuade them otherwise. that sort of thing needs to be left to the head office folk if it needs escalating.

[big blue one]

Sorry bout the spelling above, the iPhone seems to think it is cleverer than me. Have now corrected!

[gyzmo]

probably right. Unfortunately.

 

I've done a fair bit of consumer and retail law training and one thing I found was that the shop floor staff knew very little. This said, they were convinced that what they thought they knew was right, whether it was or not. I doubt a consumer spouting legislation or case law will persuade them otherwise. that sort of thing needs to be left to the head office folk if it needs escalating.

 

Indeed not. If it goes beyond their training they just apologise for you "feeling that way", say there is nothing they can do or some other inaction. I rarely bother arguing in shops anymore because it is usually like convincing an extremist that they are wrong.

[Kraken1]

then again, consumer law isn't the most straight forward. I've been working with it in one form or another for a nigh on a decade and have spent seven years studying it for various degrees etc. I've still only scratched the surface and this is my profession - what hope does a shop boy have?

[MARTIN3030]

Thread moved here

[gyzmo]

I think it is relatively straight forward in most cases. I know this is going a bit off topic, but the reason most people don't understand it is because they have had poor training in it. Most company training seems to involve role playing games and drawing pictures. Someone I know who worked at JD Williams complained that, although they had to deal with customer complaints, not a single mention of legislation was given.

 

I personally think it is done deliberately to control staff. The less they know, the less likely they can stray from the company's wants. Reminds me of 1984.

[Kraken1]

The courses I ran didn't draw pictures... the problem was the folk put through the training, store managers and area managers, not shop floor staff. One one-day course is really not enough either, to be honest.

 

My training was fantastic, by the way. Legislation, case law, case studies, problems to solve. I rocked.