London Underground

[Old-CodJA]

Its probably because court time is limited & in short supply & that they would rather put the more serious cases through.

 

Yes, SRPO does make a very valid and important point here

 

There is a fine line to be run in 'managing' Court time and whilst it may be desireable to prosecute all offenders, the Courts and the TOCs certainly have many more cases than there is time to hear.

 

I suggest that is very much a sad reflection of the high level of offending, but does mean those cases deemed less serious are likely to escape prosecution where an alternative disposal may be achieved.

 

Some may see that as resulting in a 'justice lottery', but I'm afraid it is a sign of our times.

[mlondon]

The Mayor's Fare decision

 

What do people make of this? Apparently non-serious first time offences will be handled outside of court

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[uk987654321]

Does any one know the postal address of prosecutions team?

[Old-CodJA]

Is this a general question?

 

There are a number of different ones dependent on where a traveller is reported.

 

In general terms it may be TfL's own prosecution team or London Underground,

 

It might be one of several TOC's operating services in the LUL area such as SE Trains, FCC, NEX E Anglia, Chiltern Railways, LOROL or,

 

The DLR prosecution team etc,

 

If you have been reported, whatever you do, you must write to the specific team who have written to you.

[uk987654321]

Is this a general question?

 

There are a number of different ones dependent on where a traveller is reported.

 

In general terms it may be TfL's own prosecution team or London Underground,

 

It might be one of several TOC's operating services in the LUL area such as SE Trains, FCC, NEX E Anglia, Chiltern Railways, LOROL or,

 

The DLR prosecution team etc,

 

If you have been reported, whatever you do, you must write to the specific team who have written to you.

 

Sorry, I mean London Underground prosecution team. However, I can't find it out on tfl's website.

[locotoro]

I would really appreciate someone's help.

 

My circumstances are that I accidently used my fathers freedom pass whilst on my way to work. It was a genuine mistake as my father had worn my overcoat a few days prior and had left his pass in my pocket (it was in a little blue LU wallet-just like mine). When I pulled it out of my pocket and used it on the machine an inspector stopped me and starting questioning me as to used oyester card it was, inevitably I said it was mine. He responded to me "no its not" and asked me my employee number. At this point I was feeling very intimidated and confused as to what was going on. I replied that i didnt know what he was talking about, he then took the card out of the wallet and I realised by the colour that it was not my card.

 

The inspector proceeded to take down my details and caution me and confiscated the card. Despite my profuse aplogies that there had been a huge mistake. I was late for work and I had to go but i later went back on my lunch break to try and explain what had happened but the guy said that it was already in the system and i would be recieving a letter in the post.

 

I like everyone else work in an industry where I believe a criminal conviction would be detrimental to my future. I have a clean record and I think I only used it once or twice (I believe this happened on a tuesday so there is a chance i had the card on the monday too).

 

I have received a letter from LU stating the same as MikeS1000 above.

 

What can I do or say?

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[UNDERGROUND]

Sorry, I mean London Underground prosecution team. However, I can't find it out on tfl's website.

 

I'm in work tomorrow, I'll find out for you.

 

Someone may come along before that though!

 

Regards

UNDERGROUND

[UNDERGROUND]

Apologies for not being around lately, had some on-going computing problems, and been busy!

 

Anyway.......

 

 

locotoro

 

A few questions:

 

- Was your journey entirely on London Underground?

 

- Do you have proof that you held another valid ticket or Oyster card

for the journey you made? Is so, what was it?

 

- Did your father not realise his Pass was missing for two days?

 

UNDERGROUND

[locotoro]

Hi Thanks for the responses

 

- The inspector asked me what my employee number? (I had no idea at the time) but I now understand that by saying that the oyster card was mine he must have assumed that I worked for London Transport. My father later taold me that all London Transport personnel have a employee number that they memorise. Obviously I didnt have a clue what he was talking about?

 

I was travelling from Seven Sisters to Harrow. But I did have my own oyster card.

 

My dad works on the buses and drives to his garage so I guess he doesnt use it unless someone can shed some more information as to whether he would need it to use it to sign in?? He made no mention of his card being missing to me.

 

I have just drafted a very apologetic letter to the prosecutions department and told them i would be willing to pay any charge or fine. I am so worried that i may get a criminal record over this.

[locotoro]

One other thing is that the incident happened in mid March. and I have only recieved the first letter from London transport. Is there a chance that this could drag on beyond a six month window which would be in approximately one months time??

 

or am i clutching at straws :S

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[UNDERGROUND]

Ah, you are talking about a Bus Operators pass, the purple coloured card?

 

I must say that it is quite possible your father will have his Pass withdrawn permanently. LT Staff Travel take the misuse of TfL employee passes very seriously.

 

What ticket or Oyster card did you hold that was valid on the day of travel?

 

UNDERGROUND

[locotoro]

sorry, thats what I meant. Employee pass. It is the purple one thats how i realised it wasnt mine when the inspector took it out of the plastic wallet.

 

The issue of the pass being permanently withdrawn isnt really an issue as my father has since left.

 

I have my own normal payg oyster card but i dont think i had it that day. i thought i had my own but i obviously had my dads

[UNDERGROUND]

I'll be honest here, I don't think you've got a leg to stand on should this come to prosecution.

 

It is your responsibility to ensure that you have a valid ticket or Oyster card for your journey, and the excuse that you managed to use your fathers pass by mistake is unlikely to wash when it comes to the 'balance of probabilities' in a courtroom. Especially the story that you and your father share a coat.

 

I realise that this is not what you want to hear.

 

All I can suggest is that you write to the LU prosecutions manager and plead your case.

 

UNDERGROUND

[locotoro]

thanks for your honesty underground.

 

I have written to the prosecutions manager and explained to him (in a very apologetic way) that this was a completely innocent mistake.

 

For the record we dont share a coat, my dad just uses my coat on the odd occassion. Still Not sure it makes much of a difference.

 

I will await a response from them with fingers crossed

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[UNDERGROUND]

Civil law uses the balance of probabilities, criminal law is proof beyond reasonable doubt which is a higher standard of proof.

 

If you are prosecuted under Sec 5(3) of the Regulation Of Railways Act they will have to prove it was your intent to avoid payment.

If they prosecute under the byelaws they only need to prove you were there & you didnt have a valid ticket.

 

Quite, SRPO - Thank you

 

UNDERGROUND

[locotoro]

hey does anyone know how long it takes them to respond to my letter?

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[locotoro]

No, but I do know how long a piece of string is

 

Touché

[bonkers9]

I'm also in similar position to locotoro. I've written a letter to settle out of court. However, I hadn't decided on my plea yet and only have a couple of days to send it off. I haven't received a reply from london underground. Is it worth ringing up the magistrates court to ask for an adjournment given that there's been a postal strike?

 

B

[Old-CodJA]

You can ask.

 

It's always worth trying to settle out of Court although the rail company is not obliged to agree to any offer and it may just delay the resuilt that would have been arrived at in any case.

 

On the other hand, you may get the opportunity to pay an administrative penalty and save the likelihood of being ordered to pay a fine & costs.

[bonkers9]

Thanks.

 

If you're pleading "not guilty", how many days before the court hearing must the reply be sent to the magistrates court?