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Everything posted by UNDERGROUND

  1. Gribbly Old-CodJA has answered your post as well as possible - I won't go over points already covered. Be aware though that Finchley Road and Frognal is not an Underground (or 'tube') station. A couple of questions before I make comment: - What kind of ticket was purchased? (i.e. single, travelcard, return) - Where did your daughter get stopped by the inspector(s)? - What was the intended journey (from and to)? UNDERGROUND
  2. Worldismyoyster Old-CodJA has provided you with sound advice. Your friend may not be issued a new Staff Pass, fraudulent use is taken seriously by LT Staff Travel and the manager there is passionate about withdrawing the facility if abused. Your friend is also involved in transferring and aiding and abetting offences but it is unlikely (but not impossible) that these will be pursued. As Old-CodJA said it does appear that you did indeed realise the use of the pass was not legitimate as you had been told to lie 'should anything happen'. I think it is reasonable to assume that this should have started alarm bells ringing and the use of the pass was to avoid paying your fare. Wait until you receive a letter from LU before you write to them. I think you should stop panicking until you know what LU's intentions are. Re-post when you have heard from them. Regards UNDERGROUND
  3. Excellent reply from Old-CodJA as usual. You should be aware that your relative may not have their Bus Operator Pass replaced. The manager at LT Staff Travel is very passionate about removing the privilege of free travel from those who have abused it. Technically your relative could be caught up with offences of transferring and aiding and abetting but in reality this is highly unlikely. As per Old-CodJA's advise, all you can do is write to the Prosecutions Manager and hope for the best. Regards UNDERGROUND
  4. In the four years I spent as an RCI with LU there were NO fare evasion cases where CCTV evidence was used, and as far as I'm aware this is still the case. The only occasion where it may be used is where violence is involved. Oyster data is used but this is usually to catch people who regularly and systematically evade their fare, for example using two Oyster cards to 'dumbbell' or for people abusing the Customer Charter scheme. These are highlighted by automated analysis software which produces 'Oyster Intelligence' reports which are followed up with investigation. A couple of points: - LU don't like cases to get complicated, with CCTV it could - If you are stopped by an RCI on London Underground you will only be reported for the offence they have witnessed and written up Regards UNDERGROUND
  5. bonkers9 It's not me you have to convince. No, that wouldn't form the basis of the prosecution's case, the inspectors witness statement and the actual Pass will. But do remember that logic will play a part in the Judge's decision and questions such as the one I asked will no doubt got through their minds. When you feel willing to share more details of the case, please do. Regards UNDERGROUND
  6. Hang on there.... let's not get this out of proportion. Wait until you receive correspondence from LU. If they state their intent to prosecute the best you can do is write a grovelling apology outlining your position and any mitigating circumstances and ask that the matter be dealt with otherwise than through the courts. The address given above is for penalty fare appeals, Prosecutions is based at LU's head office at 55 Broadway. Although you see prosecution as disproportionate, unfortunately fare evasion using Freedom Passes is extremely widespread and is very costly to TfL. Combine that with the fact that the Passes are paid for by London boroughs from the public purse and are intended as a benefit for elderly and disabled residents, you see why TfL take such a hard line when people are caught. You really do need to relax a bit and not react so much when people try to explain in black and white what may happen to you. Regards UNDERGROUND
  7. Just out of curiosity, how did he lose just the orange wallet and not the pass and photocard within? UNDERGROUND
  8. I'll be honest here, I don't think you've got a leg to stand on should this come to prosecution. It is your responsibility to ensure that you have a valid ticket or Oyster card for your journey, and the excuse that you managed to use your fathers pass by mistake is unlikely to wash when it comes to the 'balance of probabilities' in a courtroom. Especially the story that you and your father share a coat. I realise that this is not what you want to hear. All I can suggest is that you write to the LU prosecutions manager and plead your case. UNDERGROUND
  9. Ah, you are talking about a Bus Operators pass, the purple coloured card? I must say that it is quite possible your father will have his Pass withdrawn permanently. LT Staff Travel take the misuse of TfL employee passes very seriously. What ticket or Oyster card did you hold that was valid on the day of travel? UNDERGROUND
  10. Apologies for not being around lately, had some on-going computing problems, and been busy! Anyway....... locotoro A few questions: - Was your journey entirely on London Underground? - Do you have proof that you held another valid ticket or Oyster card for the journey you made? Is so, what was it? - Did your father not realise his Pass was missing for two days? UNDERGROUND
  11. I'm in work tomorrow, I'll find out for you. Someone may come along before that though! Regards UNDERGROUND
  12. Blimey I thought I was bad! And I was in revenue! UNDERGROUND
  13. Hello again, I will just say I do believe the inspector was correct in issuing a penalty fare as it is the customer's responsibility to ensure they have a valid ticket for the entire journey. That said there shouldn't be any air of intimidation or rudeness. It only need be a simple letter explaining that it was an honest mistake and providing proof that she holds a valid Oyster Travelcard for the journey in question. If your girlfriend takes her Oyster card to any London Underground station and asks for a print out they will oblige, this will show the relevant details. Make sure you get your appeal in within 21 days of the PFN issue. Best of luck UNDERGROUND
  14. rewley I have spoken to an old colleague, unfortunately he was little vague to say the least! He seems to believe that fare evasion does appear on PNC, but don't quote me on that, I don't know that for a fact. He also said that the offence is recorded with the CRB but is only revealed if you are assessed under 'enhanced disclosure', for example teaching jobs, police officers etc. Whether it requires disclosure to all employers I couldn't say. With regard to the case being prosecuted under RRA, they will not alter this to be prosecuted under byelaws instead. The RRA is a reliable piece of legislation for TfL and they will always use it when they can prove intent. The stuff about arrest warrants and the like is over my head I'm afraid! spatel2 SRPO's post explains perfectly. Out of interest, where was the penalty fare issued? UNDERGROUND :grin:
  15. Hi Firstly, are you talking about Camden Town Underground station? If so can I ask how your girlfriend got on to the network without a ticket / Oyster card? I am assuming she was stopped on the way out of the station? Penalty fares are now £50, reduced to £25 if paid within 21 days. If, as you say, your girlfriend does in fact have a valid Oyster card for that journey you should appeal the penalty fare and you will almost certainly get it overturned. The address is: London Underground Penalty Fare Appeal Office Pelham House 63/81 Pelham Street London SW7 2NJ These details should be on the penalty fare notice anyway. Regards UNDERGROUND
  16. rewley Firstly take a look at the document in this link, if you haven't already: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf 1) It is a consideration, but if this is the only reason put forward for not proceeding with prosecution it's unlikely to succeed. Freedom Pass offences are taken particularly seriously because of the value of the pass (paid from public funds) and because of the abuse of trust given that they are issued to (usually) vulnerable people. 2) Any subsequent admissions of guilt after the interview with the inspector would not be used in court. Once / if you receive prosecution's evidence you'd need to look out for discrepancies in the facts (sounds obvious I know) and whether the inspectors notebook matches exactly what is in his / her witness statement. Inspectors will use some shorthand and abbreviations in their notebooks for standard questions and courts will accept this. 3) It seems you have already exhausted this option as they have not agreed to halt prosecution proceedings. 4) + 5) If they have stated they are going to proceed there isn't really much merit in writing again unless you have come up with further mitigating circumstances. If TfL feel they have a solid and reliable case against you they will not be bothered if you instruct a solicitor. They have experienced prosecutors who specialise in these cases day in day out. Also an inspector will attend court as a witness for any case that goes to trial - you could hope that a solicitor may be able to catch the inspector out, but it's a long shot IMO. 6) Don't know, I'm investigating CRB implications and will post when I've spoken to some old colleagues. 7) See link above. I hope my response is of some help. Regards UNDERGROUND
  17. I'm assuming you used the Freedom Pass to enter at a station outside your Oyster Travelcard's validity, otherwise why would you have used at all? Just because you had a Travelcard that covered zone 1 that doesn't mean you had a valid travel pass, it would have had to have been validated ('swiped in') at the start of your journey and used to exit to be valid. You must have a valid ticket / pass for your entire journey. So there was still the clear intention to avoid your fare. Plus if you were caught using the Freedom Pass to exit (ie. to open the barrier) you would have used it for the entire journey. I appreciate that dealing with revenue staff can be intimidating and embarrassing. From what you have written it seems the inspector has done things correctly, apart from informing you that you were not obliged to remain with them, although you shouldn't rely on this as a core part of any defence. As I've said to other posters the best you can do at this stage is write to TfL prosecutions with any mitigating circumstances and asking them not to proceed. It may not be effective as others have found but it really can't harm to try. They will only try to prosecute for the one offence as this is the only one they have evidence for. As far as the CRB implications I'm still investigating and I'll post ASAP. Best wishes UNDERGROUND :grin:
  18. mlondon The post you have linked to is referring to members of staff that have applied for the job and been accepted but are yet to receive their training, they will not be working as RCIs. It's not on really because they say to people 'yes, you've got the job' then keep them hanging for months, or years to be trained and promoted. LU are careful not to put people on the frontline as an RCI before they are fully trained. UNDERGROUND
  19. Having PC problems rewley I had constructed a response for you, however my laptop died half way through and then refused to charge! I will re-write this when I finish work - I'm not ignoring you! Regards UNDERGROUND
  20. thegalax I'm sorry you didn't get a favourable result from your letter. You have done everything you can in terms of trying to prevent the matter proceeding. IMO it isn't worth hiring any sort of legal representation, this will merely add to your costs. In my experience fines range from £100 to £500 (this was 4 years ago), depending on the person's income and circumstances and costs range from £10 to £100, again dependent on circumstances and whether the case has gone to trial. To be honest, I really don't know what is recorded in terms of a criminal record, I will ask a colleague about this and post back. When / if you get a copy of the prosecutions evidence scour it thoroughly for inconsistencies and errors, especially between the inspectors notebook and their witness statement. If you want me to cast an eye over, PM me with scans, obviously deleting any personally identifying information. Regards UNDERGROUND
  21. Sorry for my lack of replies all, not been on in a while. hansfranz You state that you took your friend's Oyster card by mistake because you were in a rush, did you tell the inspector this? Did you specifically state or imply intent? If you maintained throughout that you had made a mistake and didn't admit intent to avoid payment there is no case. Can you also prove that you had a valid ticket / Oyster card that would have covered the journey had you not mistakenly taken the wrong card? UNDERGROUND
  22. NSE translates to Network South East - Pre 1996 this was the collective name for London and the South East's commuter routes. The code is still used on tickets to signify a Network Railcard discount has been applied. As SRPO says there's probably little chance of obtaining a refund, but you might as well try, what have you got to lose? Regards UNDERGROUND
  23. Hi Mrs Ryan Not a stupid question at all!! The short answer is YES, he can use the PAYG Oyster card. Oyster PAYG cards are fully transferable just so long as there is no ticket loaded onto the Oyster card like a Travelcard (for the zones in which the person is traveling) which has a non-transferable status. If the card is purely loaded with funds for PAYG travel it matters not who it is registered to. If stopped by an inspector they will scan the card and just see that it is a PAYG product with no other tickets and so long as there are adequate funds AND it has been validated at the start (and, depending on when stopped, the end) of the journey. It's important to let your boyfriend know to 'touch in and touch out' on every journey to avoid any problems. Regards UNDERGROUND Edit: A handy guide to Oyster here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/Get-the-most-from-Oyster-January-2009.pdf
  24. Hi All I can say is that you can try writing to prosecutions and pleading your case. You say you couldn't afford to pay for your ticket, is there any way you can prove that by buying travel tickets this would have caused you financial hardship? This could count as a mitigating circumstance. From what you have told me it seems the inspector has done everything correctly and I think TfL will feel in a strong position and would have no problem prosecuting this case should they choose to. I know this isn't really what you want to hear, but unfortunately there is no magic way out of these situations, you can only try to persuade the prosecutions team not to proceed. Please keep me up to date with any progress. Regards UNDERGROUND :grin:
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