Towed from private parking space

[angel81uk]

Hi there, I was hoping someone might be able to offer me some advice. The DVLA towed my car (declared SORN) from my privately owned parking space outside my flat today. They claim it was a "direct removal" (ie, no clamp first, no warning, no nothing) as it was parked on the public highway!

 

How they got the idea it was a public highway I'll never know. First of all it's a new estate, the road outside the flat has not been adopted by the council, it is still 100% private road. But it wasn't parked on the private road, it was parked in a marked, private parking space which is in the middle of a row of other privately owned spaces at the side of the private road. (wow, that's a lot of privates!) I can prove that the parking space is owned and maintained by myself (it is outlined on the title deeds to the property).

 

Having spoken to the pound today they say they have photos of the car taken before they removed it but the photo doesn't show any markings to say it's a private parking space so it's not a private parking space. Well, the space is marked, the area is brickweave paving with slightly darker bricks marking out the parking space and there is a plaque on the kerbside which shows the flat to which the car belongs. Of course the kerbside plaque isn't visible when the car is parked infront of the kerb and unfortunately the darker bricks don't show in the photos.

 

Any ideas where I might be able to go with this one? I could send them a photo of the empty parking space which clearly shows the markings to prove it's private land, but they say that's no good as I/they can't prove that the car was parked in that exact spot before it was removed. I didn't think the DVLA were able to remove cars from the owners property under any circumstances, even if it wasn't declared SORN, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Any help appreciated!

[S C O R N]

If it were me, I'd be straight down to the local police station and make a formal complaint of theft of my car and demand they go and arrest the thief! It's time this sort of outrageous behaviour was stopped.

[Conniff]

Just as Scorn says - report it to the police as theft and then court, don't bother going down the road of being fobbed off time after time and them claiming a higher and higher bill.

 

Letter 'demanding' the return of the car within 24 hours or it's court with a claim for damages and out of pocket expenses.

[angel81uk]

Police won't give me the time of day unfortunately. I called them, they said if it's on the "trace" database as being towed for an offence then as far as they're concerned it hasn't been stolen!

[crem]

Police won't give me the time of day unfortunately. I called them, they said if it's on the "trace" database as being towed for an offence then as far as they're concerned it hasn't been stolen!

 

but is it on that database at all? Did they even bother to check?

Don't do it on the phone, go to the station and demand to speak to a more senior officer when the desk officer won't accept the report.

[angel81uk]

but is it on that database at all? Did they even bother to check?

Don't do it on the phone, go to the station and demand to speak to a more senior officer when the desk officer won't accept the report.

 

Yes, it's definitely on the trace database as being towed by the DVLA. I initially thought the car had been stolen by the local dodgy scrap merchant who tried to tow it away a few months ago so called the police then. They told me that before they would look into it I personally needed to call trace and see if it was on the database. It was trace who told me the DVLA had towed it away.

 

This really is like banging your head against a brick wall isn't it?! I found out today that it's NCP who actually have my car and they wont release it without charges unless the DVLA tell them to. Speaking the the DVLA (who were actually quite helpful!) they say if it was parked on private property attached to a dwelling owned by myself NCP should not have taken the car. However they will not get involved with proving that the parking space is private land, that argument is between myself and NCP. The idiot at the NCP pound is still insisting that for it to be a privately owned parking space it should be clearly marked on the road. Utter tosh I said, "would you tow a car from someones driveway just because it doesn't have private parking space painted on the ground?" "no, of course not but you were parked at the road side, not on a drive way. Your space should be marked by the local authority". Why on earth would the local authorities go round painting parking bays on a road they neither own nor maintain?!

 

Does anyone know how I can get in touch with NCP Services head office so I can speak to someone there? All I can find is an 0844 number which gives me options to speak to payroll, new business department etc. No option to go through to an operator and no options for the "consumer".

[crem]

Have you got on to the council as well to get their confirmation that they don't maintain that section of road. If they confirm this, then by definition it must be private!

 

I think your only other course of action will be to send them a LBA 7 day notice then lodge a county court claim for loss/damage.

[angel81uk]

Having reviewed the photos they've now decided it's not a public highway. Now they're calling it a "Public Place" and say that under new powers they are allowed to remove vehicles from public places also. As far as they are concerned because there are no barriers or clear signs stating "Residents Only" or something similar then the public are free to park in the spaces hence it's a public place.

 

I now have a copy of the building plans from the developers clearly showing each parking space and the flat it belongs to. I'll try sending that over tomorrow and see if it helps but I'm not getting my hopes up on that one!

[crem]

Having reviewed the photos they've now decided it's not a public highway. Now they're calling it a "Public Place" and say that under new powers they are allowed to remove vehicles from public places also.

 

What new powers?

[buzby]

Actually, Glasgow is doing the same! They have erected signs as you approach the city that state (I paraphrase) "The absence of yellow lines does not mean the absence of parking restrictions". Now, if this was a parking bay bought by the resident, the statement (without qualification) is incorrect.

[angel81uk]

What new powers?

 

As I understand it VERA was extended last year (October 2008 ) so now a vehicle declared SORN can not be kept on a public highway OR a public place. I haven't found an up to date version of the act as yet to be able to confirm that though, at the moment I'm just going by what NCP and DVLA have told me and what I have read online.

 

DVLA have confirmed that a parking space associated with a dwelling is not a public place. But they're not willing to get involved in proving if it is indeed a parking space associated dwelling as in their words "we do not know the local area". So if DVLA won't tell them it's a private parking space and they wont accept a copy of my lease showing the space belongs to me then I don't quite know what to try next.

Edited April 8, 2009 by angel81uk

[DCA-KING]

Go to the council ask for a copy of plans and take yours along and ask for a letter confirming that its a private parking space then get on the phone and email copies of the letters to your mp and get him to write a letter stating you want your car back within 7 days if its not returned apply to the county courts its that simple dont pi@@ about with these loser get them in court then send the story to your local rag put them in the spotlight

my mate bought (and i did) the grass verges off the local council about 2 yrs ago i have fenced mine off my mate has a sorn car on his the lifted it he asked what are you doing removing it of council property Its no its mine No its not its council so he let them take it only worth 500 he went straight up cop shoip, someones nicked my car no sir dvla have it was parked on council property ok thank you

down to the courts had a date took all the pics new deeds bill of sale for buying the land i went as well told them we bought it 2 yrs ago he left room to make a call came back told the guy your in the wrong he told you he owns the land and council just confirmed in the mean time they crushed the car he was with his court cost and for all his troubles came out with a 28 day court order to the sum of 2400 and they have paid it

regards dk

[crem]

That is a helpful story DCA-KING, but a bit of better punctuation would have made it a bit easier to read.

[patdavies]

As I understand it VERA was extended last year (October 2008 ) so now a vehicle declared SORN can not be kept on a public highway OR a public place. I haven't found an up to date version of the act as yet to be able to confirm that though, at the moment I'm just going by what NCP and DVLA have told me and what I have read online.

 

 

Not as I understand it.

 

Changes were made by virtue of the Finance Act 2008. These allow a vehicle to be towed from private property (with some exceptions like garages) when the vehicle is neither taxed nor on SORN.

 

The base Act is the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994. The Finance Act 1995 Schedule 4 inserted Schedule 2A into VERA, which allows the immobilisation and removal of unlicensed vehicles on the public highway (as defined by VERA 1994)

 

The Finance Act 2008 Schedule 45 extended this to private property but not the curtilages of private dwellings.

 

Finance Act 2008 Sched.45 s.5

(1) Paragraph 1 (immobilisation) is amended as follows.

 

(2) In sub-paragraph (1), for “on a public road” substitute "in any place other than a place to which this Schedule does not apply".

 

(3) After that sub-paragraph insert—

"(1A) This Schedule does not apply to—

(a) any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a dwelling-house, mobile home or houseboat and which is normally enjoyed with it, or

(b)any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a building consisting entirely (apart from common parts) of two or more dwellings and which is normally enjoyed only by the occupiers of one or more of those dwellings."

 

 

 

If your vehicle was on SORN, then it is sufficient that it was not on the public highway - defined as a road maintained at public expense.

Edited April 22, 2009 by patdavies