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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Marlin/Mortimer CCJ HFC Marbles Card - Set Aside Help **WON plus Costs**


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hi spam, if it were me, i think id be inclined to concentrate on the stuff to get the set aside, ie CA, default notice, NOA, etc. this other stuff is great defence fodder but dont let it knock u off the scent so to speak. if they have no enforceable CA or other docs they have no case and u have gd grounds. have u had a hearing date for the set aside yet? i dont like to be the one to suggest it cos im not 100% on this stuff but cpr disclosure might be a gd step. to my mind if u go thru the steps to get the docs ie. CA rqst/SAR/CPR/CPR reminder/possibly (as per PT thread) CPR enforcement and u still get nth or garbage, at least u have shown the DJ that u have tried every possible means to get the relevant info b4 u even set foot in the court. also if u ve dun all that its got to make it diff for them to come back and have a crack at the judgment in the future, which is smth else to bear in mind. others may have better ideas but thats wot makes sense to me. hope u dont mind my commenting

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Thanks R&B..comments appreciated and taken on board.

I haven't had a date for the set aside hearing as yet and I am, as you can see, gathering as much evidence as poss for my draft defence should I get a crack at it....but I'm also trying to get as much evidence together to support my claim that I was led up the garden path by my DMC and that I admitted the claim through ignorance and their unsound advice.

Don't want the DJ to say ' well you admitted it so what are you whingeing about go away and stop wasting my time!':D

So far as you can see I have done CCA request (1st April 09) and SAR (9th April 09)to Marlin....no joy regards CA so far. I have also SAR'd HFC (8th April 09) no reply whatsoever from them to date. not even a T&C

 

How long d'ya think I should give them before sending CPR?

 

Thanks again :)

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Don't want the DJ to say ' well you admitted it so what are you whingeing about go away and stop wasting my time!':D

:)

 

ur goin for set aside under 13.3 so he shudnt if u have a decent defence.

if u read PTs thread u need to be very reasonable in the time given to reply, so soon as i wud have thought, IF u want to go that route. u have an impending hearing so u cant be too generous. other opinion would be gd on this.

 

I think that if it gets to the stage where the judge makes an order for disclosure and you both hand in your evidence then both sides have to disclose everything they have in relsation to the debt so that would include letters etc would'nt it??

 

do u mean on the enforcement of the cpr?if so, i think (only my own observations) at that point u have specified the docs u wanna see (depending on which u used) which wud generally be the major docs reqd for enforcement. please correct me if im wrong id hate to mislead spam.

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Hi r&b

 

As my case is at the "lets swap doccuments" stage ie....I have to fill in a disclosure list (N265) to say what doccuments I have in my pocession and that I am going to rely on them in court...... like bank statements and correspondence between claiment and defendent. The other side have to do the same and then, say they put that they have a default notice etc I could then request to see the original copy within 7 days. SO if they have letters etc between themselves and spammy then they HAVE to disclose them otherwise they cannot rely upon them in court.

 

See, clear as mud......:D

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As for the enforcement of the CPR, thats what you ask for in the draft order for directions that you attatch to the Allocation Questionaire (I think):confused:....and the judge SHOULD read and make an order as per......

 

But they dont, as I had sent MC a request for Information using CPR 18 and MC ignored it, and I asked in draft order (that they be made to show mw stuff like default notice etc) and the judge made absolutely NO mention of this in the order he made following the AQ handing in.

 

In the order it just said basically both parties hand your evidence in by such a date.......

 

fedup

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I agree with r&b - concentrate on the set aside first.

 

The DCA doesn't have to provide copy correspondence if they no longer have it - they may have only kept a note on your records. Certainly looks from the papertrail as though your DMA has messed up though. Have you thought of a SAR to them? And yes, the evidence for the mess up would prob. be valuable in your SA hearing.

 

Re. your defence & the relevant docs. you can ask for those at that time. Sorry if you've stated it already but is the claim over £5000 i.e. fast track rather than small claims?

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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sorry spam i hope this is all relevant and not hijacking. something occurred to me whilst i was doing my cpr rqsts. that being if u get to the point of n244 application for disclosure, you can ask in the draft order that unless they comply the court set aside the juidgment. i cant remember if that equates with PTs advice as that thread is not abt set asides but it seemed reasonable to me. thats why im wondering if it would be useful in your circumstances as it would in effect remove the need to go thru the set aside hearing (or have both at the same time maybe). that is of course if u get no reply to speak of. either way u will know wot u r dealing with, which i believe was the point of that thread in the first place, allowing u to formulate a proper defence with a proper paper trail. just my thoughts from what ive been doing in my own cases.

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Hi r&b

 

As my case is at the "lets swap doccuments" stage ie....I have to fill in a disclosure list (N265) to say what doccuments I have in my pocession and that I am going to rely on them in court...... like bank statements and correspondence between claiment and defendent. The other side have to do the same and then, say they put that they have a default notice etc I could then request to see the original copy within 7 days. SO if they have letters etc between themselves and spammy then they HAVE to disclose them otherwise they cannot rely upon them in court.

 

See, clear as mud......:D

 

Just a quick observation - you don't list all the letters in an N265 - the art is to put them in and not tell the other side what they are:

 

So for example you would put in "correspondence received from the Claimant of various dates"...you don't list it item by item

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Thanks R&B..comments appreciated and taken on board.

I haven't had a date for the set aside hearing as yet and I am, as you can see, gathering as much evidence as poss for my draft defence should I get a crack at it....but I'm also trying to get as much evidence together to support my claim that I was led up the garden path by my DMC and that I admitted the claim through ignorance and their unsound advice.

Don't want the DJ to say ' well you admitted it so what are you whingeing about go away and stop wasting my time!':D

So far as you can see I have done CCA request (1st April 09) and SAR (9th April 09)to Marlin....no joy regards CA so far. I have also SAR'd HFC (8th April 09) no reply whatsoever from them to date. not even a T&C

 

How long d'ya think I should give them before sending CPR?

 

Sorry to stick my nose in but...

 

I think that you need to become pro - active the CPR 31.14 letter - allowing 7 days for a reply needs to go off immediately by first class recorded - if you have access to a fax - so much the better.

 

If you've already done the 31.14 letter and had no reply - another letter enclosing a copy of the 1st letter - give them a further 7 days to reply and tell them if they don't that you'll be applying for an order.

 

Can I just clarify - they have a ccj - what was the order - was it an instalments order or was it forthwith

 

Hope that's useful

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Just a quick observation - you don't list all the letters in an N265 - the art is to put them in and not tell the other side what they are:

 

So for example you would put in "correspondence received from the Claimant of various dates"...you don't list it item by item

 

Hi IGNM

 

Yes i have seen that in other threads and have just listed in general order ie "pages 2 to 12;- correspondence between defendent and claiment";)

 

But see my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/183981-county-court-claim-help.htmland you will see they have offered a tomlin order......

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I agree with r&b - concentrate on the set aside first.

 

Re. your defence & the relevant docs. you can ask for those at that time. Sorry if you've stated it already but is the claim over £5000 i.e. fast track rather than small claims?

 

Hi FG, the claim is for over £5000 therefore I assume fastrack...whatever that might mean! :?

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[quote=I've got no money;2135586

Sorry to stick my nose in but...

 

I think that you need to become pro - active the CPR 31.14 letter - allowing 7 days for a reply needs to go off immediately by first class recorded - if you have access to a fax - so much the better.

 

If you've already done the 31.14 letter and had no reply - another letter enclosing a copy of the 1st letter - give them a further 7 days to reply and tell them if they don't that you'll be applying for an order.

 

Can I just clarify - they have a ccj - what was the order - was it an instalments order or was it forthwith

 

Hope that's useful

 

All input welcome IGNM.:)

Thanks for your comments....the CCJ was for an 'assigned' credit card debt for over £5000 which I have been ordered to pay back in instalments.

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Hi FG, the claim is for over £5000 therefore I assume fastrack...whatever that might mean! :?

 

It would mean you would be liable for the other side's costs if you lose :(

 

However on the bright side, it means you can use CPR31 to your advantage :)

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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It would mean you would be liable for the other side's costs if you lose :(

 

However on the bright side, it means you can use CPR31 to your advantage :)

 

 

Yikes:eek::eek::eek: Best make sure my defence is as watertight as poss then!!!!

 

I've been preparing my CPR request and I am now confused as to which rule I am requesting it under.

 

Having read the Stickys I see there is a 31.4 and a 31.6.

 

As I am going for a set aside hearing (date not set as yet)of judgement already in force which one do I use??

 

Help please...is it PTs or X20s :confused:

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I've been preparing my CPR request and I am now confused as to which rule I am requesting it under.

 

Having read the Stickys I see there is a 31.4 and a 31.6.

 

As I am going for a set aside hearing (date not set as yet)of judgement already in force which one do I use??

 

Help please...is it PTs or X20s :confused:

 

think u mean 31.14/31.16. IGNM advoates 31.14 in post above. i think from memory x20 posted that.

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31.16 is pre - action so not relevant

31.14 is the one that you use - as r & b points out I advocate using X20's version

 

You need to get the request done ASAP

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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think u mean 31.14/31.16. IGNM advoates 31.14 in post above. i think from memory x20 posted that.

 

31.16 is pre - action so not relevant

31.14 is the one that you use - as r & b points out I advocate using X20's version

 

You need to get the request done ASAP

 

Thanks peeps....on to it now:-)

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Ok, If anyone's out there..help on this bit please..

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court. (I assume I put the date of original claim back in December and Northampton CC)

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim. ( This is where it gets tricky...due to c**k up of DMC...partial admission of full amount was sent to claimant and not court!!! Therefore no defence was submitted and CCJ was awarded....so what do I put here if anything?

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered] (no request sent prior to judgement but 2 ca requests sent prior to set aside hearing so far)

 

The rest I can cope with...

 

Any advice please.

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in the abscence of advice I have done this....

 

On 29th November 2008 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court, and subsequently received a judgement against me.

 

I am applying for this judgement to be set aside and it is my intention to defend the whole claim.

 

Prior to this set aside hearing I have delivered two requests for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request has been unfulfilled to this date.

 

Comments /input/ PLEASE;)

 

This is in regards to the wording of CPR request based on x20's draft

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clarification

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I have at last received something in the post as a result of my SAR to HFC.

It is a list of exactly 6yrs transactions......still no 'balance' on there though.

 

Can anyone please tell me what I should be looking out for in respect of unlawful charges etc. Bearing in mind this was a credit card agreement.

Thanks peeps. :D

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Further to the above....

 

Having gone through the list of transactions, I have picked out the following;

 

Aug 03......£20.....Late Charge Assessment.

May 04......£25.....Late Charge Assessment

July 04.......£25....Late Charge Assessment

Oct 06.......£12....Late Payment Admin Charge

Nov 06.......£12....Late Payment

Dec06........£12.....Late Payment

Jan 07.......£12......Late Payment

Feb 07.......£12......Late Payment

Mar 07.......£12......Late Payment

Mar 07.......£12.....Overlimit Charge.(Bearing in mind I'd been trying to arrange payments with them since Oct 2006 and it's their charges that put me over the limit!!!:mad:)

 

Also...I'm assuming that Billed Finance Charge = Interest, But can anyone tell me what Billed Deferred Finance Charge is?...These seem to be regular small amounts added on the same day as the Interest .....although as there is no actual balance at the begining or end of this statement Who knows whether it's been added or taken away!!;)

 

These sheets are the sum total of my SAR...

Not a whiff or a mention of a CA.

Not a whiff or a mention of an Assignment.

Not a copy of a default notice or two...

NOTHING......How that cost me £10 I don't know!!!:p

 

Perhaps there's more to come and they're sending it seperately.:idea:

 

Oh yes, The covering letter was from 'Beneficial', and it states that my July 2008 to March 2009 Statements are not enclosed as there's been no activity on my account for that period.....Strange seeing as they've 'sold' it to Phoenix that they don't seem to know about it. :rolleyes:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

They say money talks......mine just keeps saying "Goodbye"

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Can anyone please tell me what I should be looking out for in respect of unlawful charges etc. Bearing in mind this was a credit card agreement.

Thanks peeps. :D

 

hi spam, i wud say any charges. the fact that they are there at all without an agreement to back them up makes them unlawful after all how cud they chge interest when u have no stipulation as to the rate charged, how cud they charge penalties without any stipulation as to the level of chge, or why it was charged, etc ,etc? i think they wud just all get lumped together in any defence anyhow.

doesnt seem like a proper SAR reply to me, no bal on statements!!! no CA/DN/NOA is gd news at this point i wud say. have they previously sent u anth to go on at all, like a blank agreement or smtg like that?

have u dun the 31.14 rqst yet?

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