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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Arrow/evershers CCJ+CO over old MBNA debt


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reggie these guys r far more experienced than me, but my thoughts at this point, for what its worth, would be to use the CPR route as u need to get your set aside application in asap (if thats the way u r goin) and from what ive seen thats the only way to get a speedy answer (or not in some cases, but at least it shows the judge you ve been trying and they have been obstructive, ergo more strings to the bow), but i would definitely bow to their greater knowledge, as im only talking from advice i ve been given for my own 'tribulations' as you ve seen. hopefully they will be back to advise.

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Yeah I agree, thanks

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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okay spoken to CAB, taking legal advice- knew taking out this cover on my home insurance would help!, reading everything I can get my hands on, reported creditor to the OFT for the charging order, best of all I found this site, so here comes my set aside application!!!!

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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I'm interested in this, palomino, as for me a dispute is a status and not something that happens because you send a letter saying you are in dispute.

 

Sorry, but default is the status. It's a fact and it's unarguable.

 

Whatever your views if you send a letter telling them you dispute their right to enforce repayment then you are clarifying any possible confusion.

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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Sorry, but default is the status. It's a fact and it's unarguable.

 

Whatever your views if you send a letter telling them you dispute their right to enforce repayment then you are clarifying any possible confusion.

 

I think we can hopefully agree to disagree on this one.

 

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I'm confused!!!

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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Guys help me out. I'm getting conflicting advice!

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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The issue with taking advice from a forum like this, reggie, is that advice is based on differing opinions and experience. It would be for you to decide how to conduct your own case, taking those views in to account, then doing the thing that makes you most comfortable.

 

All I can say is that I firmly believe that the dispute arises from the failure to comply with the request for information in the prescribed timeframe. Sending a letter outlining that failure is irrelevant to the fact that they have still failed. I also don't see the benefit to be had from doing that, personally, as the creditor is well aware of their legal obligations and duties - whether you point out they haven't behaved as they should have doesn't mean you aren't in dispute with them, therefore.

 

On the other hand, there's no detriment in sending such a letter ;)

 

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Thanks Chris, your input is always appreciated.

 

As I have previously mentioned I would feel a lot more comfortable if they came back to me and said we do not have a copy of your agreement.

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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Thanks Chris, your input is always appreciated.

 

As I have previously mentioned I would feel a lot more comfortable if they came back to me and said we do not have a copy of your agreement.

 

Agreed, but I suspect they won't.

 

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So if they do not comply with my CCA request and have not answered my questions regarding do they have a true signed agreement and I apply for a set aside using no CCA agreement is available, when we go to court if they provide one will the Judge question why they did not advise or provide me with a copy as per my request. i.e. could it rule against them?

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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Interesting- Copied from another thread:

 

A letter from the OFT outlining sec77-79.

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 (‘the Act')

Our Ref: **EDITED**

 

Thank you for your email received on 31 March about your enquiry into the Consumer Credit Act Sect 77 & 78.I apologise for the delayed response.

 

The general effects of sections 77-79 requires the creditor/owner (in the case of a hire agreement) under an agreement for (fixed-sum credit, running account credit and hire agreement) to provide the debtor/hirer with a copy of the executed agreement and a statement of account on request.

 

If a creditor/owner fails to comply with a valid request within a period of 12 days (not including the date of receipt of the request) he may not enforce the agreement at all. This prevents enforcement with or without a court order. If a default lasts for a month (for example a calendar month) it constitutes an offence. We understand your concerns in this matter but please do remember however that once the creditor/owner complies with the request albeit out of time, he may once again enforce the agreement.

 

A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor (the latter two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points, but it cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot otherwise.

 

We note your concerns that in the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone's liability for a debt can only lead to further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it is as unfair practice under section 25(2) (d) of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed.

 

If you would like to make a formal complaint. Please fill in the attached complaint form.

 

Thank you again for writing to us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Olu Ademolu

Markets and Projects

Enquires and Preliminary Investigations Centre

Edited by car2403
Removing letter references

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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The responses to these requests are spurious - creditors hide behind the regulations (which is outlined sufficiently in the above letter, so I won't quote them here again - suffice it to say that the OFT are right in their view) so they don't need to disclose the fact they can't enforce the agreement. They then go on to refuse to enforce, instead passing the debt to even more spurious DCA's that attempt to collect on it.

 

All this leaves the debtor in a quandrary - seemingly, the only way to force disclosure is to take Court action, (or defend it, in your case) but that could be setting you up for a fall should they turn up with the agreement and it being fully enforceable.

 

The question you have to ask yourself, then, is how likely is it that they can provide the agreement, but are simply stalling for time. Ironically, I'm in this process with Cap 1 (although I haven't started a thread on it yet, but it's following the usual Cap 1 process) and I'm about to lose my temper with them. This is the relevant paragraph in the next letter that I'm sending them, though;

 

I find your reply perplexing though, in that you seem to be relying on legal “mumbo-jumbo” to justify the previous reply that you sent me without even considering the content of my latest letter to you dated 24 March. I also cannot see the circumstances in which you would rather continue to correspond with me regarding your compliance with that request, based on your previous reply, when surely it would be much more straightforward to supply me with a true copy of the original agreement, along with my signature and the prescribed terms, to allow me to fully understand my obligations under the agreement.

 

For instance, how can you say “your account status remains open and active and up to date and the balance currently due and payable is £757.71” when you have failed to fully respond to the questions asked in my last letter? How can the account be “open and active”, “up to date”, “have a currently owed balance that is payable” and how can you state that information regarding the account is being shared with credit references agencies, if you are unable to show I actually agreed to the terms you are seeking to rely on? Upon what information is this statement based, exactly? I would also like to know how you could “defend any application may bring against [you]”.

 

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Possibly interesting update.

Having checked all my paperwork from the courts I have no record of a final charging order being made only an interim charging order.

Checked the land registry and it shows Arrow as an interested party but only with an interim charging order, the court apparently had a hearing in April last year so I don't know what happened there and why it wasn't made final.

 

Is this good news as Eversheds have made me belief they have a charging order on my property?

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A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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Possibly interesting update.

Having checked all my paperwork from the courts I have no record of a final charging order being made only an interim charging order.

Checked the land registry and it shows Arrow as an interested party but only with an interim charging order, the court apparently had a hearing in April last year so I don't know what happened there and why it wasn't made final.

 

Is this good news as Eversheds have made me belief they have a charging order on my property?

 

Might be worth contacting the court to find out what happened at that hearing in April.

 

S.

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Depserate to get info from the courts, typical it's a Bank Holiday weekend and i've got to wait till Tuesday!!

 

Never mind I will get to work on my set aside application.

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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At what point should any hearing or court order be transferred to the defendants local court?

I've been looking at the CPR and a little bit confused as all my dealings with have been dealt with Bradford CC which is miles away from me!!

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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At what point should any hearing or court order be transferred to the defendants local court?

I've been looking at the CPR and a little bit confused as all my dealings with have been dealt with Bradford CC which is miles away from me!!

 

When a defence is filed I think... could be worth ringing bradford CC on tuesday and asking why it hasnt been transferred.

 

S.

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I read that the case would need to be transferred to the defendant's home court to enforce any judgement.

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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Reggie

 

Eversheds use Bradford CC in preference to their nearest court in Leeds or the online service through Northampton like a lot of other solicitors. I understand they claim the service at Bradford is better. This may be true if Bradford is compared to Leeds but seems a bit odd when compared to Northampton. The cynic in me suggests it might be because they have a cosy arrangment with Bradford.

 

Downside for Eversheds is that they should have filed all the documents to back up their claim with the court, unlike when solicitors file through Northampton. That means it should be easier to get hold of the documents - if Eversheds had hem to file!

 

Make your application to set aside and ask that the case be transferred to your local couty court. Once it is there, you could attend the court office and ask to see the documets on the court file. If there are none, you then have the evidence for set aside.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Would I be able to request the documents on court file before I go to a hearing?

 

I've received some documents but I know that's not all of them!

 

Also when a judge orders you to make full payment of the outstanding sum forthwith, how long do you have to pay?

 

I noticed that my judgement to pay forthwith was the 13th of the month and the creditors applied for a charging order on the 25th of the same month, I thought I had 16 days to object so I assume that would be to pay as well?

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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Would I be able to request the documents on court file before I go to a hearing?

 

I've received some documents but I know that's not all of them!

 

Also when a judge orders you to make full payment of the outstanding sum forthwith, how long do you have to pay?

 

I noticed that my judgement to pay forthwith was the 13th of the month and the creditors applied for a charging order on the 25th of the same month, I thought I had 16 days to object so I assume that would be to pay as well?

 

Anyone able to answer my query above.

 

13 working days now since Arrow acknowledged my CCA request so fingers crossed nothing turns up!!

A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it begins to rain.

- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain

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You should be able to get copies of all the documents from the court file. The rules are contained in the Civil Procedure Rules [CPR] part 5, at PART 5 - COURT DOCUMENTS - Ministry of Justice. Also look at the Practice Direction to Part 5.

 

I suggest you print both these documents off and go to the court with them. If you ask the court staff, they would normally arrange to copy the documents for you. Worse case is that you have to make a formal application for the documents and possibly pay a small fee.

 

If the CCA and other documents are NOT on the court file, then you will have a very strng case for set aside.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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