C L Finance (GE Store card) - Failure to comply with CPR request.**SETTLED BY CONSENT**

[GhostDebt]

Good evening everyone.

 

With regards our second problem with C L Finance we issued a CPR request when they sent us a county court claim and as yet they have failed to provide any of the information requested.

 

Can the 'Account in Dispute Letter' still be sent to them? As no CCA request was sent.

 

We requested a copy of the alleged agreement in the CPR request, but as I said, they haven't yet complied. (The 12+2 days allowed for a CCA request to be complied with has expired) so I was hoping to put them on the back foot again.

 

Many thanks for the help.

[GhostDebt]

p.s Have drafted this dispute letter, but would appreciate any comments you have on it.

 

Please read

 

Account In Dispute

Dear Sir/Madam.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above alleged account.

You have also Failed to provide any of the other documents requested.

On 27.01.2009 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request and as such the account entered default on 16.02.2009

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the alleged executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both the alleged creditor and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 1974 and subsequent Statutory Instruments.

If the alleged executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of the alleged account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the alleged account.

Furthermore

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of an alleged credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said alleged agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the other documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the alleged account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the alleged account.

* You may not pass the alleged account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the alleged account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the alleged account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

** Thanks for all your help so far. Best regards **

[GhostDebt]

bump

[dx100uk]

can we have a wee bit more info please

 

a/c start date

last use/transaction etc

how old is the debt?

 

what is this 'county court claim letter?'

 

As a safety, knowing CL, did you actually receive the judgment from the court, or from CL?

 

If its from CL, call the court and make sure the judgment exists

 

sounds just like a usual fishing for a mug dca letter?

 

dx

[GhostDebt]

Hello dx100uk

 

This relates to a store card account opened in August 2003.

In 2006 transactions stopped and we started token payments then in 2008 we started a DMP with CCCS. This DMP has now finished.

 

CL Finance got involved sometime during 2006, but they have only ever had token payments, other than when the DMP was running.

 

In Jan 2009, they issued a court claim against us, which has been acknowledged and then had a defence entered. Which the court has acknowledged receipt of. We are currently waiting for a response/AQ's or for it to be stayed.

 

At the same time as we sent the acknowledgement of service we also sent a CPR request letter to CL/Cohens for information which they have not yet provided. They replied saying 'they are not obliged to provide this information'.

Part of this included a request for the agreement, but as it was not a CCA request I am unsure whether the dispute letter for failure to comply with the CCA request is valid in this instance. This is why I have drafted the slightly altered letter above, to see if I can still put the account in dispute and hence delay or stop any further proceedings.

 

Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Best regards.

[creditcardmug]

Hi, with this matter in court its no use sending a dispute letter as above, you are way past that point.

 

C L never comply with CPR requests, and that letter is their standard response, its not a problem...you have asked, they have refused....this looks good for you later on.

 

Can you post up their POC, and your defence to it?

[PGH7447]

Hi Ghost debt, you are in the same process as me and the same time scales by the looks of it, ClueLess and HC have also failed to respond to my CPR so nothing new there, follow CCM's advice, and you wont go far wrong

[GhostDebt]

Hello CCM/PGH/Everyone.

Thanks for your comments, below the extra info you have requested.

POC.

The claimants claim is for the sum of ...... being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated agreement between the defendant and GE Capital Bank Ltd under reference ....... and assigned to the claimant on the ...12.06 notice of which has been given to the defendant,

The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon the defendant pursuant to Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Defence

The claimant has failed to provide provide the documentation required in accordance with the civil procedure rules.

They have failed to provide an exact copy of the credit agreement relating to the alleged account.

In accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 failure to provide this document renders the alleged account unenforceable whilst it remains in dispute.

The claimant has also failed to provide the additional documents requested and is denying me the opportunity to file a full and complete defence and counterclaim and appears to be trying to frustrate proceedings.

These documents include (but are not limited too) true copies of the notice of assignment and the absolute deed of assignment. Failure to provide these documents indicates that they have no clear right to the alleged debt and I respetfully request that the claim be struck out.

Furthermore any information relating to account statements has not been provided which means a full and final counterclaim cannot be submitted yet and i reserve the right to submit a counterclaim at a later date should this become available.

 

There are currently two cases going with CL Finance (see our other thread) the other should be stayed on Tuesday 24th.

 

In both cases the defence was the same, so we seem to be getting there but any assistance/comments are greatly appreciated.

 

Just playing the waiting game really.

 

Many thanks.

[GhostDebt]

Still waiting for a response from the court.

 

Any other comments regarding the POC and defence I filed..?

 

Many thanks

Best regards.

[creditcardmug]

The defence is ok, i would have beefed it up a bit...you get the chance to really go for it in the next stage..AQs, you need to take your time with that to get it right.

[GhostDebt]

Hi all,

AQ received on the 18th, so need to form a response for that (N150)

Will post up how I'm planning to fill that in shortly and would welcome any

comments you can suggest.

Many thanks

[Gazza112]

Subbing

[angel_1]

subbing and wishing you lots of luck but im sure with cag help you will continue to be positive

 

laters angel x

[GhostDebt]

Evening everybody.

Having had a few spare minutes, have finally got round to coming up

with my AQ responses (Due by 3rd April).

Please could you have a look at the following and let me know any comments you might have:

 

A1. No

A2. n/a

A3. No

A4. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence to support the amount claimed and their legal right to issue a claim against the alleged account.

B. No

C. Yes

D. The full amount

Applications - No

Witnesses - Myself and OH

Experts - No to all

Track - Fast track ('cos approx. 7.5k)

E 3 hours

No

F Yes (will post up directions next)

No

G £8 per hour x ? hours, plus cost of CCA req, recorded delivery costs,

to a total x

Add 50% to top as estimate for total costs.

H - No. claimant pays? (is this correct?)

I yes

yes

date letters received

leave blank, not sure what to put in here about applications

 

On the xx/xx/2009 I requested the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules, which is vital to file a full and complete defence against the case from the claimant. A copy is enclosed for the court's reference.

(Proof of postage and confirmation of delivery is included)

 

To date the claimant has ignored my request under the CPR and I have not received any such documentation requested. As a litigant in person I respectfully request the court to enforce this request for information, and, if the court considers it appropriate, the issue of an "unless" order to ensure the proceedings are not delayed further.

 

Sign and date.....

 

Would greatly appreciate any comments,

 

Many thanks

[GhostDebt]

Draft order for directions:

 

 

 

In the *************

County Court

Claim number **********

 

Between

************* - Claimant

 

and

xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant

Draft Order for Directions

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon
  
• Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,
  
• Document, contract or deed of assignment
  
• Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.
  
• Copies of any statement or other document relied upon
  

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

• An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant
  

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

(Taken from a post made by PT2537)

[GhostDebt]

also thinking about changing my section G/H other information to:

 

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire;

 

1) Section G / H ** - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the claimant on **/**/2008.

 

------------

 

and then attach:

 

XXXXXXXXXX -v- XXXXXXX

Claim No: xxxxxxxxx

 

 

N150 Allocation Questionnaire

 

SectionH - other information

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case

 

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

 

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give

notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the small claims track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that this document must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

 

--------------------

 

will send copy to court and to cohens....

 

Still a work in progress, am coming across other info which may be of use as i go along.

 

Many thanks...

[creditcardmug]

Heres my suggestion

 

Section A tick no to all

4 reasons The claimant has failed to substantiate this claim

Section B tick yes (if it has already been transferred to your local court) if it has write that in the box, if not write that you are unable to travel etc.

section C tick no. in the box write "please see attached section C"

Section D Write the amount they are claiming, not including costs

applications tick no

witnesses write your name, and in brackets "myself"...in the other box write "all facts"

Experts tick no to the first question, leave the rest blank

Track fast track....leave the box blank

Section E 2 hours....fill in the rest if there are any dates you cant attend

Section F tick yes to 1st question...no to 2nd

Section G leave blank

Section H leave blank

Section I tick yes to the 1st question...no to the second

tick no to applications

in the big box write "please see attached section I"

 

Sign & date it etc.

[creditcardmug]

Draft Order for Directions

 

1 The Claimant shall not later than 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 2 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions) deliver to the Defendant a verified true copy of each of the following documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim

 

(a) the executed regulated consumer credit agreement made between the defendant and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx under reference xxxxxxxxxxxxx together with any terms and conditions that applied to it, the original document must be brought to the hearing.

(b) the default notice together with proof of service

© notices of assignment together with proofs of service

(d) a full and complete statement of account including all payments made and charges applied covering the period beginning with the day of the making of the agreement and ending on the date of the commencement of this case.

 

2 In the event that the Claimant shall fail to comply with paragraph 1 of this order the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty without further order to apply to this court for judgment and for costs on the standard basis to be subject to detailed assessment proceedings if not agreed.

 

3 In the event of compliance with paragraph 1 of this order this case shall be allocated to the fast track and

 

4 The Defendant shall be at liberty to file and serve a consequentially Amended Defence by 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 6 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions).

[creditcardmug]

Other Information

 

Section I

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

Without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case.

 

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

 

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give

notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the fast track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that these documents must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

[creditcardmug]

Pre-Action Protocols

 

Section C

 

 

This case is not covered by any approved protocol, I have tried to act reasonably in exchanging information/documents relevant to the claim, however the claimant has been unco-operative.

On the DATE I wrote to the claimant requesting information pursuant to the CPR Part 18, in order that I could investigate their Particulars of Claim, and file a suitable defence. A copy is attached to this form.

 

The claimant has not replied

[GhostDebt]

Thank you for the reply CCM, great responses.

Much appreciated.

Thank you.

[GhostDebt]

Hello CCM, the AQ has been completed and will be posted Wednesday.

 

I was just wondering if it would be ok to change the last sentance of section C to state:

 

The claimant has not provided the requested information and in a letter dated 29.01.2009 has stated "we are not obliged to provide this information". (A copy is attached to this form).

Does this sound ok, or would it be better to just state they have not replied?

Many thanks for your help.

Regards

[creditcardmug]

Yes change it for that, sounds better:)

[GhostDebt]

AQ has been posted today. Guarenteed next day delivery.

Now another waiting game......

Will keep you all posted.

Many thanks CCM.

 

Best regards.

[GhostDebt]

Hi all,

 

Just a quick update to say we are still waiting to hear anything from the court. Will keep you posted

 

Best regards