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    • I'm not sure on the best option here, I'm happy to go with Tomlin, however I can afford to pay this one in full if needed and wonder whether I should be trying to get a reduced amount, perhaps in the court hallway before going in? that would require submitting a WS of some sort. What I 'like' (strong word) about TO in this instance, is that it allows me to keep my savings to hand for further accounts needing attention in the near future and I would hope gives me some control over the pcm amount.. I've read a number of TO threads now (fell to sleep at the keyboard last night ) but have a few questions please: - Do I specify the payment arrangement in a TO or the claimant? I'm thinking 20% lump upfront plus 96 months of circa 60 squid. - Who decides repayment amounts if CCJ is granted? if the judge, then do I submit I&E at any point? Given the amount of total debt across all my claims, I need to ensure anything I commit to is future proofed. I wouldn't want all my disposable income sent to this one debt, only to have another one in a month or two.
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    • Few tweaks as the run order was completely messed up and the main point of your defence (reconstituted agreement) pushed to the bottom of the statement.   I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. 1.The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act. 2.  I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. 3. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 4.  I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020. 5. The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’. The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents. 6. Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018. 7. Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicitor's is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’ 8. On (insert date) I successfully made application to set a side the judgment. The claim proceeded to allocation, 9. The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date. (insert date you did receive the documents) I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’. Remove irrelevant 10.The claimant relies upon and has exhibited a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement. It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HHJ Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’. The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause. 11. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not mislead the court. 12. It is denied I have ever received a default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.The claimant is put to strict proof to evidence from the original creditors internal document software the trigger of said notice.  13.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. 14. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024   Run 3 copies Court /Claimants Sol/File
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RBS - Enforceable CCA?


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Please could someone help with this request ?

 

I requested my CCA with RBS as they wouldn't accept a payment plan due to financial difficulties.

 

They responded - albiet very much outside the 14 days.. more like 2 months!!

 

I have posted the letter and other parts sent to me. They have sent the t&c's at the time of opening as the charges are not current, however they are 6 pages long, so I didn't want to scan each one.. Just the 1st page. I've purposfully left the first 4 digits of the card showing on the forms and as you can see the last page, the first four digits are different to the ones on the later docs. This is the original card number, not the one to present (destroyed).

 

Does this constitute a valid CCA as they have enclosed a credit agreement, albeit not signed.

 

Please advise I want to get a letter out to them tomorrow.

 

Thank you in advance for the kind help you offer me!

 

rbs1.jpg

RBS2.jpg

RBS3.jpg

rbs4.jpg

rbs5.jpg

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I do not see your signature anywhere on the documents. Your signature must appear within 4 corners of the prescribed terms. As it is, I would say this is unenforceable. Send the following letter if you wish:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Also, as you have pointed out, this agreement is a fairly new one as it shows £12 charges.......clearly not the original.

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Thank you - will get the letter out today. I thought as much, but I'm sure they'll treat it with the same contempt Tesco's are treating it - and insist they have complied.....

 

Thank you both for taking the time to reply.

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Had the same thing (as well as an application form). Non compliant to the CCA1974 as previously stated by others.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Not to further confuse matters, but i'm expecting them to respond with the same letter I got from Tesco's as they were the same company at the time - not sure if they are now....

 

However Tesco's are saying that ..."the provision of a true copy in this form is made in reliance of Regulations 3(2) and 7(1)(b) of the Consumer Credit (cancellations notices and copies of documents) Regulations 1983. Particularly 3(2) which permits the copy agreement not to show signatures or personal details that may have appeared on the application part of the document. There is no statutory requirement under the Act for us to ever give a copy to a customer with a signature on it.... "

 

Surly that it is just madness. The CCA was made under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, not the Consumer Credit Regulations 1983, so to me the CCA is the one they need to take note of which various sections, including one in the latter part of s.78 as well as s.61 state a signature is required by or on behalf of the creditor as well as the debtor.... neither of which have been given..

 

Davey77 - I got as part of my response from Tesco's an Application form. Pity the application form doens't contain the prescribed terms!

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The are correct about the 1983 regs. They still need a signature document containing the Prescribed Terms to enforce the account in Court but they are not obliged to send you that document under a s 78 request. I know, it stinks. But there are other ways of asking for information... have a look at this thread if you haven't already:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Thanks davey77 - I will be posting the 1st letter at lunch time.

 

I just don't know how they can say a "true" copy is just a photocopy of some ts & cs or a copy they had laying around with the words credit agreement on it.

 

Oh well, lets see what the civil procedure letter brings.

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Mrs A Foreskin wrote the same letter to me, with a very similar copy of what is essentially an application form, with the T&C's in a seperate document that was not connected to the first.

 

I've now ignored them for about 6 months after sending a letter outlining the fact that it wasn't enforceable. I've heard nothing since apart from the usual round of threatening letters from DCA's (Wescot).

 

Lets be honest here, if they had a legally enforcable agreement, they'd send it. They wouldn't send something they'd created on the office photocopier, only to save the real thing for court. They want their money back, so it's in their interests to show all the cards early.

 

Insane!

 

Lets see if Halifax spot that they don't have an enforceable CCA when I meet them in court tomorrow :)

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Mrs A Foreskin wrote the same letter to me, with a very similar copy of what is essentially an application form, with the T&C's in a seperate document that was not connected to the first.

 

I've now ignored them for about 6 months after sending a letter outlining the fact that it wasn't enforceable. I've heard nothing since apart from the usual round of threatening letters from DCA's (Wescot).

 

Lets be honest here, if they had a legally enforcable agreement, they'd send it. They wouldn't send something they'd created on the office photocopier, only to save the real thing for court. They want their money back, so it's in their interests to show all the cards early.

 

Insane!

 

Lets see if Halifax spot that they don't have an enforceable CCA when I meet them in court tomorrow :)

 

Good luck!! Keep us posted (I'm presuming you have your own thread).

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Good luck!! Keep us posted (I'm presuming you have your own thread).

 

No, I started a thread, but have kept most of the dealings off-list. I've heard some stories regarding the defendant being lurkers who may attempt to gleen an advantgae by poking around the forums.

 

I'll post back tomorrow night.

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No, I started a thread, but have kept most of the dealings off-list. I've heard some stories regarding the defendant being lurkers who may attempt to gleen an advantgae by poking around the forums.

 

I'll post back tomorrow night.

 

;)

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good luck ;)

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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i think, from a compliancy issue I had on a loan, its 1% above and 0.1% below are the allowed tollerancies. But I could be wrong on credit cards.

 

If so, i think as you point out the APR is incorrect and could render the agreement unenforceable.

 

Please could someone confirm this?

 

Thanks

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If the APR is way off then i understand that could effect enforceability but unfamiliar with the details of it.

 

The CAB should be able to confirm if your APR is stated correctly. Although having said that, they (rbs) haven't sent you a signed credit agreement so even if you find out the APR is off that can be tucked up your sleeve to hit them with a little later.

 

At the moment i would base your complaint of the lack of signature within the same document as the Prescribed Terms.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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A rather familiar letter arrived on my doorstep today. This reads exactly the same pretty much to the letter from Tesco's.

 

RBoS28Feb09.jpg

 

I've omitted page2 as it's litterally a signature.

 

I am going to reply back with the standard letter explaining about a signature etc, but I also want to clarify the APR. Could really do with some help to make sure I don't look stupid by writing to them and completely ballsing up the APR issue!

 

Please could someone assist on the APR - as pointed out, the apr states 17.9% on the "true copy" agreement, but that is not 1.3% per month.

 

Thank you for any help the may be forthcoming!

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I found this - Interest Rate Converter

 

Stick my APR of 17.9% in and I get monthly equivalent of 1.3817%

 

Stick 1.3% monthly in and I get a compounded APR of 16.77% (15.61 when not compounded).

 

Therefore, by my simple reckoning on the 1.0%/0.1% tolerance levels, I think this falls outside of that - i think!!!!

 

Will write to them anyway complaining about the miscalculation and see what they say.

 

Thanks to all who have helped.

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