How I won SORN court case

[titleist]

The DVLA are literally [edited] innocent citizens.

 

This is how I won my court case. Hope it works for you too.

 

Background:

 

My bike tax & mot expired. I kept the bike off road until I got a chance to get it MOT'd. Being previously unaware of precise SORN regulations, I did not declare SORN immediately because it seemed to fly in the face of common sense to SORN it, knowing that I would be taxing it soon after. Why add unnecessary bureaucracy? Besides, since SORN lasts for 12 months, this implies that you only declared SORN if your intention is to keep it off road for 12 months, not just until you get an MOT.

 

So a SORN late submission penalty duly arrived, together with a SORN declaration form. I declared SORN and sent it back, explaining that the bie had been kept off road since the last tax expired. Expected to hear nothing more but received penalty reminder. I made several phone calls and wrote several letters arguing that there was no due date printed on the V11 form, nor on any of the accompanying leaflets, not on the DVLA website for that matter. The form states that you cannot declare SORN before a certain date, but does not give a due date. The only place where a due date is actually stated is in section 9a of the 1998 road traffic act, for which there is no reference or link on any of the DVLA forms or website.

 

SORN has been cobbled onto the existing V11 tax form, and as such, much of the information and instructions apply only to taxing a vehicle, not to declaring SORN.

 

Surely common sense suggests that a submitting a free SORN form cannot be time critical, nor carry an £80 fine.

 

The DVLA were draconian, saying rules are rules and so we ended up in court.

 

The judge accepted my argument that there was no due date clearly marked, nor was there any reference to section 9a of the road traffic act. The case was dismissed, I was awarded £50 costs to be paid within 14 days, and the DVLA representative was told 'to go back and sort out his department'.

 

Postscript :

 

The DVLA dragged their heels in paying my costs. I had to phone them up twice to chase payment. Their attitude was completely dismissive and they ended up taking more than a month to pay.

 

On a matter of principle, I issued them with an £80 late payment penalty. They refused to pay of course, so I issued them with a court summons.

 

The judge has just struck the case out without a hearing, stating that I do not have grounds for a claim.

 

Surely if the DVLA can summons me for late submission of a free SORN form, then I can summons them for late payment of court costs?

 

I am sickened by the double standards, hypocracy and injustice of it all.

 

Any advice or even just words of support would be gratefully received.

 

Thank you.

Edited February 16, 2009 by jonni2bad

[flyingdoc]

Excellent - well done.

 

In your shoes I might have gone for an enforcement order from the courts (which would have added £75 to the bill but cost you the same) and if they had still dragged their heels sent the bailiffs in.

 

But well done to you for getting the SORN fine quashed. I doubt that many people would know about this and therefore I also doubt whether the DVLA will rectify their mistake - I am going to ask that this be made a sticky for other members to refer to.

[foolishgirl]

Excellent titleist, congratulations!

 

Shame about not getting the £80.00 too. I agree on the double standards.

 

Unfortunately delay in paying up for anything, particularly from large organisations, seems to be becoming more common. (Tesco informed its suppliers last week they were extending payment period from 60 to 90 days - didn't ask, just told them!)

 

Where a court order is involved, I write one reminder letter with 7 days notice & then apply immediately for enforcement. It's the only language they seem to understand.

 

Flyingdoc is right though - next time go for enforcement!! At least it will cost them for the delay in paying up even if you don't see anything for your trouble.

[fwog]

Well done Titleist!

 

Its time we all took these grey beuraucratic institutions to task and ask

 

'what exaclty am I paying for?'

 

Would be even better if we could make the fine stick.

 

I was driving home the other night and started to count up all the fines you can now amass that you didnt have 10 years ago, you know, non-court based incidentals'...parking (clampers), unreasonable speeding tickets, SORN declaration. You add it up ,if you got hit with all these in a month you wouldn't be able to pay!

 

One up for the little man!

 

Fwog

[SAE140]

Great news !

 

As we know the legal process tends to operate on case precedent (dunno if this is always true of magistrate's courts ?) - so I was wondering if you would be willing to publish sufficient information to enable others to cite your appeal ?

 

Methinks it would be a brave magistrate who would rule against a judgement already made about an identical situation.

Edited February 25, 2009 by SAE140
spelling

[patdavies]

Great news !

 

As we know the legal process tends to operate on case precedent (dunno if this is always true of magistrate's courts ?) - so I was wondering if you would be willing to publish sufficient information to enable others to cite your appeal ?

 

Methinks it would be a brave magistrate who would rule against a judgement already made about an identical situation.

 

Precedence comes from a higher court.

 

Magistrates' Court decisions do not set precedent.

[flyingdoc]

You are of course correct Pat, but even magistrates court decisions can be cited as arguments in other cases, even if precedent is not set.

[victor508]

The DVLA are literally [edited] innocent citizens.

 

This is how I won my court case. Hope it works for you too.

 

I posted this on gardenlaw .co.uk and was branded a lawbreaker and

a few other things , any advice gratefully accepted.

 

I am 61 and have never been in trouble with the police , that is until

i got a driving licence 35 years ago in that time 2 speeding fines 35 in

a 30 zone and 45 in a 40 zone , not bad in 35 yrs. Now this year i encounter SORN I have never been involved with it never had to use it,

if your tax runs out you know you are breaking the law and tax it , our

house has 3 vehicles taxed permanently. Then last year 1 car owned by

myself and used by my daughter when she came home from Edinburgh

University , it is parked on our drive permanently up in the corner . She was finishing Uni in august last year and she said to hold fire on the tax and mot as she might be buying a new car. She came back bought a new car and months later i received an £80.00 Sorn fine. I tried to find a phone number for sorn to explain why this had happened no number you

either write or or do SORN on the internet , that was my next mistake i

did it on the internet. I received a letter days later saying it was SORNED

from a to b but as there was a gap between dates i might still be liable

for a £80.00 fine a month went by and they asked for £80.00 and foolishly i thought it would go away many letters later they are hanging on like limpets , i was starting to compare myself to Ronnie Biggs ,If they

just pressed a button they could see my property has 3 cars registered

to it Taxed Mot,d and insuranced and 1SORN a bit late shall we leave it

there no sod it let,s go for gold. Last week i received a letter from a solicitors firm in "Edingurgh"( coincidence )Informing me unless i pay

within 7 days i will appear in court. So in frustration i rang the DVLA number to do with taxing and i explained the situation and was informed

as there was a gap in dates £80.00 fine still stands ( allthough in reality

this vehicle has never left my drive) if i am not happy to appeal to , want

to guess "Edinburgh". My wife has the attitude pay it and be done.If i was

caught with no tax , driving , we would not even be having this conversation . I feel better after that . My point is people who drive around

regularily with no tax ,etc the one,s i assume this SORN was brought in for

they don,t chase. But the law abiding easy target , go get em .

 

Victor

[SAE140]

You are of course correct Pat, but even magistrates court decisions can be cited as arguments in other cases, even if precedent is not set.

This was very much my thinking .... I've gained (rightly or wrongly) the impression that the guys who fought the unfair bank charges issue did so by collaborating with each other and presenting a united front.

 

In contrast, it appears that folk who are challenging the legitimacy of SORN fixed-penalty notices are doing so individually, in front of magistrates who are assessing the issue freshly each time as a one-off case, and may not be aware of the numbers actually involved.

Magistrates are human and as such are fallible, and one may dismiss an appeal identical to that which another magistrate has thrown out of court.

 

As a start towards creating a unified front, I think it would be extremely useful if SORN appeal court case results could be cross-referenced, and legal opinion sought with a view to fighting this issue with a cast-iron legal argument which could be presented at each appeal.

[foolishgirl]

This was very much my thinking .... I've gained (rightly or wrongly) the impression that the guys who fought the unfair bank charges issue did so by collaborating with each other and presenting a united front.

 

Until the OFT took up the case, it was left to individuals to fight their own cases, the main reason why CAG was founded. And even if OFT eventually win the day, it will still be up to the individual to assert his/her rights. Do you really think they will roll over & pay up automatically? They certainly ddin't with credit cards.

 

As a start towards creating a unified front, I think it would be extremely useful if SORN appeal court case results could be cross-referenced, and legal opinion sought with a view to fighting this issue with a cast-iron legal argument which could be presented at each appeal.

 

Good idea but usually each case is slightly different so a blanket approach would not necessarily be appropriate. Also, the cases are heard in the County Court, so no precedents set, that only applies to High Court. CC cases can be referrred to but DJs don't have to follow.

 

However the postings on CAG help each individual to learn from the trials of others.

FG

[avensis]

i gotta say mate, balls of steel. will the same work for a van? I sent a letter contesting the fine and had a letter back telling me it was my job to pursue their letter. I declared SORN end of sept 08, tax ran out 2 days after. I declared sorn and they say they didnt recieve it and because of this i have to pay money i dont have?

 

any ideas or words of advice?

 

avensis

[flyingdoc]

Good idea but usually each case is slightly different so a blanket approach would not necessarily be appropriate. Also, the cases are heard in the County Court, so no precedents set, that only applies to High Court. CC cases can be referrred to but DJs don't have to follow.

 

Not strictly true -

Cases heard in first instance can not set precedent but ANY appeal cases (whichever court they are heard in) can set precedent over a court of equal or lower stature than the court where the appeal is held.

 

Although Magistrates and District courts have a very limited role in the appeals process there ARE certain cases that may be heard on appeal there and therefore can set precedent.

 

Similarly the HIGH COURT can also hear cases in first instance and these DO NOT set precedent although they may be persuasive to lower courts in future cases.

[titleist]

Thanks for all your comments - they are much appreciated.

 

If any of you fight the DVLA and end up in court like me, you may like to do what I did and quote Lord Davies of Oldham who proposed the current SORN legislation in November 2003. I found it in the daily Hansard (transcripts of parliamentary debates) at United Kingdom Parliament home page.

 

 

"the aim was not to impinge on the law-abiding citizen. There are law-abiding citizens who inadvertently forget that they should have licensed their vehicle. People may be away on holiday for a long time—over a month, perhaps—and there is always the possibility that people will become ill and will not be able to do the right thing."

 

The full transcript explains that it is the repeat offender tax evaders that the legislation is aimed at catching up with - not law biding citizens (like us).

 

I declared myself a law abiding citizen and the judge seemed impressed by my research. It certainly shut the DVLA representative up.

 

Keep your faith in the justice system - I'm sure you'll win if it goes to court.

[lordmacdonald]

How about getting in touch with me sae140.

or are you going to do a runner from this forum as well.

I have sent you emails please respond.:-?

[Rooster-UK]

How about getting in touch with me sae140.

or are you going to do a runner from this forum as well.

I have sent you emails please respond.:-?

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